Hello all, writing to see the legality of a vertical foregrip on a semi auto shotgun. The shotgun in question is the VR80, which is semi auto, with a thumbhole stock. It is NJ legal 100% but I'm concerned with the legality of adding a vertical foregrip to the underside of the barrel. NOT making the thumbhole a pistol grip, I'm aware that is illegal. Thank you.

Legal.

 I’m not aware of any restriction on fore grips on semi-auto shotguns.

2 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

Legal.

 I’m not aware of any restriction on fore grips on semi-auto shotguns.

Thank you, I checked our "rule book" and didnt find anything, but you know how it is here, need to double check. 

I would not say the vr80 is 100% legal. 

 

NJ could easily argue that it has a pistol grip, even if the stock is "thumbhole"

6 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I would not say the vr80 is 100% legal. 

 

NJ could easily argue that it has a pistol grip, even if the stock is "thumbhole"

Multiple NJ FFL’s are selling it to NJ residents.

33 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I would not say the vr80 is 100% legal. 

 

NJ could easily argue that it has a pistol grip, even if the stock is "thumbhole"

I bought mine in Nj from a FFL, I'm hoping they would know what's legal and not to sell

1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

Multiple NJ FFL’s are selling it to NJ residents.

Honestly,  not sure how they are justifying the "not a pistol grip" evil feature. Unless this was ran by the NJSP, as an ffl I wouldn't be selling them.

35 minutes ago, John Smith said:

I bought mine in Nj from a FFL, I'm hoping they would know what's legal and not to sell

You would be surprised the shit I hear that is wrong in gun stores. 

 

I would enjoy the fact they are selling them, however keep in mind a person was arrested for having a pistol grip on a pump in this state.. the odds are way stacked against  you in this instance. 

 

Without case law or a legal definition, IMO this is nothing more than a pistol grip that attaches to the stock.

IMO, this follows the protruding grip below the action which defines a pistol grip.. 

 

DO NOT ASK THE STATE POPO... enjoy it. 

1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

Multiple NJ FFL’s are selling it to NJ residents.

I have seen one at Clinton, ask @Zeke.  Ummm, it wasn't reliable.

16 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

I have seen one at Clinton, ask @Zeke.  Ummm, it wasn't reliable.

I have been interested in these in the past, especially  the price.. 

 

The biggest draw back to any semi auto is the load.. it's hard to compensate for the discrepancy between a light target load and a heavy buck shot...

Could the issue be attributed to under powered shells? Or mechanical?

2 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I have been interested in these in the past, especially  the price.. 

 

The biggest draw back to any semi auto is the load.. it's hard to compensate for the discrepancy between a light target load and a heavy buck shot...

Could the issue be attributed to under powered shells? Or mechanical?

I had a problem with shells less than 1300 fps, they recommend using 1300 or higher, after I ran higher fps I havent had an issue

I think the dealers got a verbal statement from the NJSP FIU to sell these.

IMHO, it has a pistol grip. One could just attach a string from a regular grip to a stock and get the same result.

2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

I have seen one at Clinton, ask @Zeke.  Ummm, it wasn't reliable.

That was their thrower I think widdle buddy 

4 hours ago, John Smith said:

I bought mine in Nj from a FFL, I'm hoping they would know what's legal and not to sell

If you get pinched for a pistol grip on a semi auto shotgun - the valid defense is NOT that the guy sold it to me.

*You* are responsible for knowing the law and not the guy selling it to you - however, if it is for sale in a NJ store does not mean it is legal per se - or without potential complications

You have to understand this *IS* NJ, and you need to prove that it *IS* legal and that in any reasonable view is NOT a thumbhole stock...look to what others have said and unless you have something in *writing* that says this model is legal for sale in the state of NJ - you take your chances.

My tolerance level for certain things is high and others very low - I personally would not be taking that semi shotgun anywhere in the state of nj in public......but that is just me

 

We have sold over 50 VR-80's to date.

The NJSP have issued a ruling in writing (via e-mail) that the state does recognise a Thumb hole Stock is not a Pistol grip and that the VR80 is legal in NJ.........

 

5 hours ago, John Smith said:

I had a problem with shells less than 1300 fps, they recommend using 1300 or higher, after I ran higher fps I havent had an issue

The VR80 is recommended to use Target Loads for the first 50-75 rounds to break her in. 

Also - you need to verify which Valve is on the barrel, if it has the Heavy load valve it may not cycle on anything other than 3" / Mag. loads. The Light valve is for Target & Standard High Brass - very few semi's will run on low brass.........

7 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

We have sold over 50 VR-80's to date.

The NJSP have issued a ruling in writing (via e-mail) that the state does recognise a Thumb hole Stock is not a Pistol grip and that the VR80 is legal in NJ.........

 

Citation for view(letter)....if this is the case it rather removes the feature set for other semi auto firearms - or is the language tailored only to the VR-80?

When we first investigated the legality of the VR80 & Citadel RS-S1(AK Semi) , photos and descriptions were sent to the NJSP for clarification and they responded  that both are legal in NJ. We also contacted the ATF for their interpitation of Pistol Grip vs Thumbhole and they acknowledged that both weapons are not considered to have a Pistol grip 

21 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

When we first investigated the legality of the VR80 & Citadel RS-S1(AK Semi) , photos and descriptions were sent to the NJSP for clarification and they responded  that both are legal in NJ. We also contacted the ATF for their interpitation of Pistol Grip vs Thumbhole and they acknowledged that both weapons are not considered to have a Pistol grip 

Well, for me, without that citation in writing -  I would not be caught anywhere in NJ with that item.  But that is just me YMMV thanks for the info !

6 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

If you get pinched for a pistol grip on a semi auto shotgun - the valid defense is NOT that the guy sold it to me.

*You* are responsible for knowing the law and not the guy selling it to you - however, if it is for sale in a NJ store does not mean it is legal per se - or without potential complications

You have to understand this *IS* NJ, and you need to prove that it *IS* legal and that in any reasonable view is NOT a thumbhole stock...look to what others have said and unless you have something in *writing* that says this model is legal for sale in the state of NJ - you take your chances.

My tolerance level for certain things is high and others very low - I personally would not be taking that semi shotgun anywhere in the state of nj in public......but that is just me

 

If they are willing to sell it, I'd still buy it.. lol

I would just have with it in the back yard.

I would keep every piece of documentation. Worse case scenario its confiscated. 

8 hours ago, Zeke said:

That was their thrower I think widdle buddy 

That too was unreliable.  But I remember the gun choking a few times.

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

That too was unreliable.  But I remember the gun choking a few times.

Was that during the” Miss and sit”? Or when we huddled together for warmth in the freezing rain that only us rill men braved.. together as one.

im unsure 

23 hours ago, Zeke said:

Was that during the” Miss and sit”? Or when we huddled together for warmth in the freezing rain that only us rill men braved.. together as one.

im unsure 

Nuts to butts

16 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Nuts to butts

@High Exposure