Genewarper111

WOW - what a spirited discussion. Three things caught my attention. First the LEO who is offering advice such as don't make stuff up, be polite and straightforward when asking for a lawyer etc is possibly giving the best advice any of us will ever hear - the police I believe want to be on our side and it just isn't worth pissing them off. Second, the range of ideas about what will be OK etc reflects problem here in NJ of uncertainty because of the widespread anti-gun culture. Finally the comment about a TV not being worth getting into a gunfight about is right on the button for two reasons - it just isn't and second, you can't use lethal force to protect property, only human life that you believe to be in imminent danger. I was at Chet's talk the other evening too, and it was a mini-version of the NRA "Personal Protection in the Home (PPIH)" that he teaches. It isn't a course about how to shoot people legally in your house. This course covers how to make your home less of a target for random intrusions, how to set up a danger plan for you and your family, how to call the police and be prepared for their arrival, how to consider whether a firearm should be part of that plan, how to determine the use of a firearm, choice of ammunition and so on, and most importantly a thorough discussion of the law in NJ presented by either a NJ certified lawyer or serving LEO that goes into when you can and when you can't, what the consequences will be likely to be if you have to. The other thing the course does is to present in-home shooting scenarios and gun use that may be very different from how you normally train at the range and the range work for this course is quite intensive, thought provoking and great fun. So, I'd advise that the best answer for the original poster and his or her work colleagues, as well as everyone who has posted is to get training that addresses this specific question. Being able to throw or catch a ball isn't the same as being able to shoot a 3 point basket and the use of a firearm in home defense is not the same as being able to shoot bullseye. Every task has its speciality skills. If you're thinking about incorporating a gun in your home and family defense plan, I'd implore you to get specific training on that topic. The consequences for you and your family if you kill someone in your house and, with the best of intentions make some trivial mistake, can be huge. Grant

I have golden sabres and they are really good - I use the 9mm 124g nrmal pressure - they are available widely on sale just now because Remington is introducing a new tungsten=based home defense bullet. EFMJ rounds in 9 at least are available in 50 boxes at Cheyenne Mountain - I recently bought 150. Can't remember the exact price but it was pretty good. We at ShootNJ had a chat about this and several of us were moving over to this round because it simply is not a hollow-point and so is not subject to the ambiguous and aggressive legislation in NJ. very best G

Lol. I know. Must have od'd on the grumpy pills! It is pretty funny, you're right. Best G

Does your company have a "Shelter in Place" policy and/or training? What about "Incident Command" training? These are important for overall security in the event of an emergency... G

finger always on the trigger sweeping themselves and one another nothing amusing here Grant (aka "killjoy")

another vote for the 226 - or 229 - slightly shorter frame, but an extremely well balanced handgun G

I'm looking forward very much to the meeting on Monday, guys. Very much indeed. G

Sorry...what was banned (then unbanned)? The conference? Good score! G

there's a gun store in Millstone??? v close to where I work....

This is great news - a new shooting facility in NJ, excellent. With a training programme for juniors - double excellent. Well done to everyone involved. G

Hi there - if you're talking about the NRA Personal Protection in the Home (PPIH) course, you're correct - it is a very interesting and very demanding course in many ways. Anthony at Gun For Hire is an excellent advocate for firearms training as are other firearms training organisations here in NJ, including the one I work with. The legal section is of importance because it should clearly lay out the legal and civil consequences of using a firearm for self-defense in one's home. Because the NRA strictly specifies that this part must be taught by a serving police officer or a lawyer certified to practice in NJ, the student is left in no doubt about the situation and how to find additional information. The range portion is also more demanding than many - it involves firing from cover, strong and weak side as well as flash sighting and accurate firing without first taking deliberate aim. These skills are expanded in the NRA "Personal Protection Outside the Home" (PPOH), which is essentially their "concealed carry" course, and having taken it, I firmly believe that everyone should. As we as members of NJGF support and applaud the work of the NJSAF and as the momentum for lawsuits in favour of ccw here grows, we legal gun owners need to move to extend and formalise our qualifications in order to demonstrate that we take the right to bear arms seriously and are willing to embrace the responsibility that comes with it. best G

Does it really benefit from the "olde worlde"'script? Aren't we looking forward? I'm a bit wary that it looks kinda "wild west ish". Sorry...... Just my tuppence worth, but I'm happy to go with the majority once it's been finalised. G

....I hooked up... G

the brit wins... makes a change!! great shooting Iain

.. so much for the theory about JJ's new truck.... this last challenge looks amazing

Megaman, wsl and smitty are right. We need a focused, targetted, PATIENT approach. The huge difference between the administrative code and the statute tells us exactly what approach we have to deal with. We can't let this go. G

UPDATE... Cheyenne Mountain has a sign up stating that ammunition will not be sold to anyone under 21.... G

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not a solution to the problem. It is bad enough that the law enacted by our elected representatives are so restrictive, but it is indefensible that or non-elected officers of the court (be they stete or localpolice officers, town and county prosecuters, judges or the attorney general) are extending those laws without recourse to the legislature. While i freely admit that I am not familiar with the process through which the Administrative Code is derived, amended or adjusted, I do not believe that it was ever intended to allow such ajustments and extensions of the law. Buying ammunition in PA or wherever is certainly a pragmatic solution, but it is one that simply allows this process to be continued unchallenged. It also undermines the existence of our hard-pressed FFLs. If the AG or others believe that there iis the will in NJ to change the law they should attempt to do so, but this backdoor bs is an affront to everyone who lives and pays taxes here in NJ.

^^thanks, but just for clarity, my son's friend, who is 20 and holds a valid NJ FPID card, was denied 5.56 ammunition yesterday in Cheyenne Mountain. The reason given was that it would fit the Thompson and so, as handgun ammunition, could not be sold to a minor. So, this is a real, not hypothetical, situation. Best, G

courtesy of Bob, over at njcsd.org.... (who is extremely well-versed in the NJ firearms law)..

some of you may remember that I posted on the registration of rifle ammunition. It turs out that this is enshrined in the NJ "Administrative Code", which is a kind of handbook to the Application" of the law as written the SP have combined two unrelated aspects: (i) sale of any ammunition that MAY be used in a handgun...(so the .308 in the Thompson scenario).... and (ii) handgun ammunition cannot be sold to people under 21 to define .308, .223, 5.56 etc rifle ammo as handgun ammo and so prevent people under 21 from buying it. This happened to my son's friend yesterday - he was denied 5.56 ammunition at Cheyenne Mountain, on the basis that it was handgun ammo. SO now we have the completely ridiculous situation where an 18, 19 or 20 year old can get an FPID card, buy a rifle and be denied ammunition for that rifle. If they want to change the law to prevent under 21s from owning anything other than shotguns, they should change the law on FPID cards. This kind of backdoor bs is sickening. G and of course - it begs the question - in what other arenas are the state police and the AG essentially writing the Law in the Admin Code, to move it beyond the actual law... driving? childcare? free-speech?

regarding tents - they need to be behind the chain G

^^^ yes I was just going to post the same thing. What is possessing these people to call themselves something so effing stupid as that??? G

^^^ when I took my UT CCL, t was made very clear - NEVER EVER modify anything you may use for defense. Strictly factory. G

oh and a ps South Carolina does not recognise non resident permits from Utah, Florida or Virginia, or indeed resident permits from New Jersey. You can get a South Carolina non-resident permit only if you own property in the state. G