bulpup

This is still too soon to know how mentally ill this man was or was not. This could still just be a very pissed off man going through a very stressful time that was not PTSD. That sort of anger is different from a person presenting a dissociative or psychotic break. An angry man is always scary but not necessarily mentally ill. There may have been no real evidence to anyone of the same sort that Jared Loughner and Holmes presented. For us as gun owners I submit that we all learn at least as much about psychotic breaks as found in the link in my signature. It is one thing to buy and train with a handgun and hope that we react well under stress, but it is another form of bravery to point out to someone you know and care about that they might need psychiatric care. As a veteran I can tell you that the VA's outreach to all of of was nothing less then spectacular. Having no need for it though, I do not know how effective the treament is. On thing that I have been pushing for with the Mental Health practicioners I know is that they should be looking to accept Tricare for treatment. This allows Reserve and Guard soldiers that are not near large VA hospitals to get treament. Sadly, many in the medical profession still do not take it.

YOu guys should read "Glock:The Rise of America's Gun" They have already been sued for this and for the stock trigger.

Can you write that training off? I'd bet you can. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I first saw that pic I was told she was in for a USO show and posed on the flight line.

Wow. Really shows how quick it all happens doesn't it? Back when I was a student of aerial combat I read a quote from a German ace that said something like "we all talk about tactics but the best way I can describe it is like being in car crash. You live or die in that time frame." That video reminds me of those words I have come to respect.

CBS.com reported that he bought it legally in FLA when he was a resident but did not have a NYC permit of any kind for it.

Wow. I have to admit I did expect a little more than crickets after my post on this subject. No matter, we all deal with information differently. Anyway, this is what my fellow soldiers put together for Sgt Velez's funeral in Iraq. You want to see a grown man cry, play this vid for me.

Lots of emotions here. Sgt. Velez was our first loss to combat on our deployment. He was gunner in the lead scout M1114 that had the misfortune of riding with... Well I won't get into it. Lets just say that when you are told the enemy has evolved his TC should know not to employ year old tactics. The vehicle ran over a crush wire and he took the bulk of an Iranian made EFP into the back of his skull. My wife attended that service and noted the patriot guard in particular. A lot of the soldiers families were there too and your presence was GREATLY appreciated by his family and his Army family that were there to grieve. Thanks so much. The Patriot Guard has always signified those that actually support our troops and not just speak about it. The pictures they took of the service made it back to all of his fellow soldiers still deployed and I can say for all of us we all took solace from that kind of turnout. Salute right back at you sir! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is still playing out. Nothing should be grasped on to as the truth until more is known. But what I will say is that those that are signing petitions have written off what has actually happened, in spite of it being written in all reports. People were worried about what he was posting and he was then "Evaluated." That evaluation likely does not mean that an FBI agent read what he posted on facebook to a "shrink," and then they all agreed to commit him based on his posts. It was decided he needed further treatement based on a meeting with a professional, a face to face discussion. How long it took and what was said is what I personally would need to know before I signed any petition. Signing a petition based on the assumption that his facebook comments were the sole reason for his being committed for 30 days is impulsive.

Some further information The information is taking a different shape.

I love the look of the painted maxillofacial shield. I just wonder about putting a skull on a medic's shield.

Ah, i thought it might be something like that. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was out shooting my LCR for the first time this weekend and everytime I shot the 38 special ammo there was this translucent green gunpowder flaky looking crud all over my bench directly underneath where I shot from. It almost looked like sand and didn't have the consistancy or smell of gunpowder, but it was definitly gunpowder-esque. Do manufacturers load some ammo with filler or something? I didn't get any of that when I shot .357 Magnum out of it.

Based on what you wrote here I have had a converstion with the members of my family that are professional mental health care practioners. Their responses would covered in caveats because what you have written has indicated the need for more questions rather than simple answers. What they all agree on is that five days of observation with overnight stays as you described is in fact called "voluntary committement." I don't want to harp on this point too much because you may or may not know a lot of this, but they feel that is likley the term on your mental health records. Being committed for 5 days is all the police are going to see. What they wrote isn't going to be in the report the detective gets. Anyway, being committed to a mental health facility for five days is going to be a flag. Keep that recent report, chances are you are going to need it again. You say "This was even before hippa was keeping records." What would be more acurate is this was before they had computerized records. They always keep records of who was committed. What likely happened was that all those paper records got entered into a main database sometime between the time it happened and now. ANyway, there isn't to much detail here because I didn't want to get into speculation and neither did they. However I do think the above two points pretty much covers it.

That would be nice Great, a "bottom liner." You posted a whole lot about what you think I am saying but you aren't hearing a word. You can't "bottom line" this situation. Here is a quick go at what I have already said in case anyone else wants to see if I am a Soviet or not. The thread is about being warned in advance of Holmes deteriorating mental condition as put forth by an article in the Shotgun News. His therapist's hands were tied It was said that the campus police are at fault for doing nothing Their hands are tied because he committed no crime. To have him committed would require a lawsuit that would open the college up to a lawsuit if it failed. [*]The therapist approached the Police about Holmes. Some say she was looking to see if Holmes had a police record. This may indicate that they were going to try to get evidence to have him committed. If true that course of action still would not have been in time. She may have been trying to see if the police could arrest or intervene. Again, their hands are tied. [*]Jared Lougner's friends thought he would be a huge risk to bring to a rifle range. Should they have told someone? Sure. Would it have done anything? No. Their hands are tied. [*]The school Jared Loughner attended kicked him out because they thought he was unstable. They told him he could come back after getting a clean mental evaluation Should the school have done more to "stop," him? Stop what? He didn't do anything. All they did see that he was unbalanced. All they could do was release him from school. Why? Because that is all that they can do We can point the finger at the Schools, the therapist, the BETA team or the campus police, but the fact is that for all they knew and saw - there was nothing they could do without due process and a trial. This is the way it is. This is the way we like it. Even the NRA and the ACLU agree on it. Even miapafox. So if we all agree that a mentally ill person should not be locked up without a months long lawsuit; How can we point fingers at campus police, threat assesment teams and individual therapists for not doing something that they can not do? See the circular logic? It's not that we can't have it both ways, we DO have it both ways. Once you point at the aforementioned people and groups there is a whole new can of worms - questions about mental health and the limits. Point at them and you are pointing to new laws. It is a given. So either stop pointing fingers at powerless people or give them the power. Miapafox isn't going to have any of that, neither is the ACLU or the NRA and likely the rest of the country as well, since no one wants to take the time to learn about mental illness. It is a mute point. Or is it, since the Shotgun News article is basically saying the same thing. So you can't really "bottom line" the issue. Well maybe I can. Bottom line is I want CCW because I actually know what can not be done to keep the mentally ill from being a danger to others.

J Typical stroke. Naive and dodgyAnything to say about the mentally ill and the what the OP posted?Or am I still a Soviet in your mind LOL!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. That's me! guilty as charged. Point your little niave wiggly finger right at me and hope for a witch hunt! The facts are in front of our faces and we agree with the statements "criminals and mentally ill should not be allowed access to guns." Well, get a criminal record and the NICS check bounces you. See a psyciatrist and she can talk to threat assessment teams and the police and blab to everyone she knows that this person is a danger and nothing happens. Turns out she was right. It would be silly for you to disagree with the statement: "the most high profile gun related incidents of mass murder were comitted by the mentally ill." What that means is because of the mentally ill, and the resulting demands for striclter guns laws, legal - sane- gun owners are held accountable. Here it is, plain and simple because complex troubles you - the mentally ill have done more to get anti-gun laws passed than any criminal but the country has no provision to block their access other than bringing them to court. Of course the colleges BETA team wanted to pass, thay had to sue. So yes, you will continue hear this in this forum. I will say it over and over. If you want to pretend you are some watchdog over my free speech because you are from PA then go right ahead - order some lube too - because you will be stroking yourself for a long time. I know it's a stretch but perhaps you might need to learn something you don't know about, like mental illness for one.

What it is going to take is a way for a professional Mental Health practicioner to input a name to NICS and alert authorities (all a salesman has is a NICS check, that is all it should take). THAT is a hard sell to the Pro-gun community. As I have seen even in this forum not to mention across the web, is a fear that anti-gun psychiatrists will just block anyone willy nilly. It is a valid concern of course, but somehow the country is going to have to do more than just give lip service to blocking the mentally ill from obtaining weapons.

That is a great link Parker

I, for one, am happy the gun comunity is starting to talk about this. It is, as anyone on this forum knows, a subject I have strong feelings about. The mental health care system is broken and is not going to be fixed anytime soon. There is no mechanism in the united states that would quickly identify a person that is determined to be a danger to themselves or others to NICS. It does not exist. It is mostly broken from being under funded. It is broken because drug companies have manufactured solutions and managed health care pays for the pills because it is cheaper than keeping a person in a hospital. Most insurance provides for all of 14 visits to a psychiatrist for a year. If you need more than that you either pay a big fat premium, pay cash or get to take a pill. But guess what? Not only do paranoids not like to take pills, they frequently can't hold a job. So no insurance in the first place. That means the only thing left to them is state agencies with eroding budgets. Those agencies are also happy to give a pill and send you on your way. And, in case we think that more funding solves ALL the problems, this guy had money, had acces to mental health care and was in studying in a field that actualy recognizes psychotic begavior. The truth is, if being institutionalized is the only way to get a hit in a NICS check, that means you have to be put away before you commit a crime. Now, knowing that, how exactly is the public going to get to a point where the mentally ill will be blocked as effectively as felons through a NICS check? Please discuss Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It does sound like they gave up when they found he was withdrawing, based on what the news is saying. Still more to come to light I am sure as they start seeing where people are going to place blame. Where did you here what I bolded? It sounds strange that she would ask for a criminal background check if she was actively trying to tell the officer that she thought he was dangerous. Unless perhaps she was trying to gather some sort of evidence to give the BETA team. Quite frankly it doesn't sound correct. Interesting turns of events.

Its one thing to have the information, its another to USE the information. James Holmes' Psychiatrist Contacted Authorities Prior to 'Dark Knight Rises' Shooting http://gma.yahoo.com/james-holmes-psychiatrist-contacted-university-police-weeks-movie-005231424--abc-news-topstories.html

Personally, I like reading a few takes on the laws, but there is only one forum explicitly marked NJ gunlaws. The rest is where do we go and shoot. All the rants can attempt to point me somewhere but I am not going to be argued with by some J-off that has some whimsical burr up their ass. If you can't make a point or counter point that makes sense then you are just another sheep following a leader or waiting for a leader. The rest of the site has some great info.

can you imagine... to your left and right is just some metal from a sled, and then clouds, and then 30,000 feet. Yea, I would feel like a demi god at least

jeez ...gahh...everytime I open the "humor" thread at work this dam pic comes up. embarassing.