Shane45

There are few pistols I wouldn't be able to carry. But 6'2" probably gives me a little extra real-estate. But I would be more comfortable carrying a larger than needed pistol than a smaller than normal pistol. My threshold is right around the G19/HK P2k mark. My reasoning is that I want to be able to shoot fast and accurately. I don't feel I can do that well enough when the pistol reaches a certain point of smallness I can no longer grip well. I don't have huge hands but they are probably a little bigger than most. Because the safety is backwards for one!!!! Aside from that your comment about little chance of ND is inaccurate to some degree. (Correct term is ND if its operator error) An issue with decocker pistols is when people make the mistake of forgetting to decock or put the safety on (which may be something to consider in your manual of arms as possibly a bad habit to not use) and go to reholster with the finger on the trigger = the bad noise. This information is excerpted from the logs of a high volume training facility that kept records of ND's. The actual decocker pistol most common for this was Sig(Iikely seen in much greater numbers than the Berretta) but obviously the same concern applies. IIRC it was the most common ND. So being the most common ND would imply the system does not constitute a manual of arms that leaves little chance of a ND.

I guess you could relate it to competition but its the same issues for non competition applications as well.

The upper swap is ok for people just messing around or where it doesn't matter. But it doesn't work when you need a particular stock or trigger. For example on a precision AR I have a G match trigger and a PRS stock. Neither the right choice for an AR set up for more run and gun oriented tasks.

Indeed!!!

But it looks so .... Operator!

Could be. It is manly legos for some . But remove the actual subject matter and all of this is wash rinse repeat. I could change the discussion items to motorcycles, hot rods, long range shooting, diesel trucks or any subject that has become popular and you will have the group with, lets just say, different personality traits, come in and drive off the real experts and seriously irritate the real enthusiasts. But keep in mind this IS the group we will buy up all their items for a discount when they change to their next great interest

It could be due to a lack of connection with the current crop of people into this vein of pursuit. I am member 810 on Snipers Hide. I don't talk there at all these days. Almost all the people I interacted with are long gone, driven out by a "different" crowd. Doesn't change my interest, only in my interest where I participate in conversation.

Capt14k the only thing I take exception to in your comments is that black rifles are "me too" guns. In my opinion they are "for me" guns in that they can be very specifically tailored to the individual or the roll or task they are trying to fulfill. This speaks volumes to the flexibility of the AR platform and contributes heavily to its popularity. What other platform can be tailored from everything from a 9mm all the way up to magnum calibers, covering hunting to plinking to long range to door kicking? Now if you want to talk collectible or rare rifles, just like in C&R, that exists in black rifles too. Ill show you a factory AR that you would be extremely hard pressed to find its twin, it is reportedly a 1 of 1. The ONLY thing close is government trade ins to the manufacturer that was made publically available for sale in a VERY small quantity. In other words very rare. Many people have a lot of black rifles but many people that do have each one configured differently for their specific purpose unless they are doing the backup gun thing which you find amongst competitors or people dedicated to training. As much as Im sure you wouldn't want people of other factions of firearm enthusiasts to lump all C&R guys into the cosmoline sniffing. wall hanging, dust collector category, perhaps its worthy of consideration that some in the black rifle crowd are a little deeper than "me too" as well.

I think you will see a rise in interest in C&R. All the kiddies playing BF1 are asking their shooting parents about weapons from this era. This in turn is turning on a light bulb for said parents that they could go pick up a few C&R's to take the opportunity to have a teachable moment with Jr. and get them out to the range.

If that was the case, I don't think it always was. Bangers at some point in time did seem to have control of training at the facility.

I understood your position. Our problem arose when you assumed mine and made declarative statements on my position without actual statements from me supporting your suppositions.

Griz, you really are making a LOT of assumptions tonight. Please indicate where I questioned Rugers criteria. If you actually read the article I linked you would have seen that the tester came up with his own test equipment, methodology and criteria as he could not find any standards for doing so. I have no idea what Rugers is. But that would be a strong indication that the testing methodology, equipment and criteria and controls are likely different. And as such I think that comparing the results of the two likely different methodologies may be flawed. I like my GP's weight scale over my specialists weight scale because it reads 10 pounds less, but they are both calibrated right? But if I stick to my comparisons on a single scale I can reasonably believe the rate of change should be accurate but I cant necessarily compare the results of one with the other unless I actually know what the deviation is. You seem to want to paint me in a corner of having an issue with factory brakes. My most expensive precision rifle wears the factory brake. With that being said, if the factory brake was not of good quality or performance in the category Im looking for, it would absolutely be replaced. My last 338 Lapua had, wait for it, wait for it, another manufacturers factory brake because it was reported as having excellent performance. I don't give a shit if the brake was 10 bucks and came on a century AK, if it has great performance in the criteria Im looking for, Im in. However that hasn't been my experience and I have based some of my choices from talking with those that have way more experience with specific products than I do. People can buy or use whatever they want. Makes no difference to me, but opinions where asked for and that's what I provided. If you re-read my posts, you should come away with the conclusion that I am saying different tests using different methods and equipment may not be directly comparable. If you don't come away with that conclusion, let this sentence serve to clarify my position.

It was in response to the OP's description of handling of the M2, "He pulled a Benelli M2 off the shelf. ZOMG. I felt like a little kid. It had the "look." And when I shouldered it, well, I felt like a little kid I was so excited."

Why would you say I want to doubt Ruger? All Im saying is that in any testing of anything, its hard to make comparisons from one test to another unless at a minimum both tests were at least calibrated to the same standard and run the same way. As I said earlier, Ive had a number of 308's with no brake at all and don't find the recoil an issue. I agree with David Tubb that return to target is the most important thing, at least in 308. If anyone wants to shoot my 338Lapua Magnum without a brake, they might get a lesson about when recoil reduction becomes important. But from at least my perspective, the cost difference in a brake is insignificant to the costs of this kind of effort. Consider that many say to truly become proficient in LR shooting, you need to shoot 3 to 5 thousand rounds in varying conditions. In a 6.5, if you don't reload, that could be almost $7000 in just ammo. Figure roughly $3200 wrapped up in rifle and scope. At least another 600 to 2500 wrapped up in accessories, depending on how good a spotting scope you get. So figure you could be in for up to 12k in this venture, what is the significance of $100? Since it would be rather hard to test for yourself, all we have is the tests people do and looking at what the top competitors are using as they tend to test extensively and chase 10 10ths.

Interesting perspective Griz but to be honest, I don't think you could draw an effectiveness conclusion between one brake with testing conducted one way and another test done another way. To be able to compare them I would think they would need to be tested the same way under the same criteria by the same tester.

Ive had many 308's with no brake at all, recoil is not the issue, at least for me. IMO the goal is to try and be able to spot your hits so muzzle rise is what Im trying to control.

A good source for review. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/06/24/muzzle-brakes-field-test/

https://www.jprifles.com/1.4.2_re.php

M2. Just do it!

My vote is for 6.5G. In fact I am more than likely going to head down this path myself. But not so much for the long range aspect. I have enough in that category. Im more interested in a small frame ar with more punch. But I think for your stated purpose, the 6.5 is well established.

Paul your stuck on the single occurrence number and not the reoccurring chance. Ill tell you what. I will play once. And you can play 100 times. We will use a chiefs special. Who is more likely to incur a loss? You seem to be implying our odds are equal. I disagree. If you play more, your chances for a loss are greater.

Only from the perspective of each individual try.

I don't think the insurance companies agree with this. My insurance went down a fair amount when my distance to work decreased considerably. Also, the 52% more likely would seem to me to assume = mileage. But if you guys want to sidetrack on mileage instead of getting the point, be my guest. Maybe this one is better. The more times you play Russian roulette, the more chances you have of loosing. Better?

I don't make it seem anything. That is your odd interpretation. I don't even see how you logically draw that conclusion. But from a mathematical standpoint the more you handle, the greater your chances of a mistake. The guy that drives 60,000 miles a year has a greater chance of having a car accident than the guy driving 6000 miles a year.