Parker

Logic is sometimes never used in defining game code regulations. However, modern technology often pushes the envelope in many cases. While a pistol or rifle cannot be used for deer hunting, modern sabot slugs which enable a shotgun to push a pistol bullet at velocities from 1700-1900fps, certainly changes the game, and definitely increases the effective range of said round. Rifled shotguns are now more rifle-like than shotgun-like today in contrast to when games codes were first developed in this state. Ditto for modern in-line, scoped muzzleloaders. What started out more than thirty years ago (1978) as a "traditional" hunting season with primitive muzzleloading rifled arms has evolved into one that accepts more modern technology. The same sabot technology makes modern in-line muzzleloaders the equivalent of a short-range rifle. Since they and the ammunition they fire are all accepted for use as hunting arms, will we see more evolving change? It is illegal to hunt squirrels with a .22, but it's perfectly acceptable to hunt raccoon and opossum at night in the dark with hounds and a spotlight, invariably shooting upwards at them them in their perch where the dogs have treed them. And you can use a .22 Short to dispatch trapped game animals. But you can't hunt rabbits with a .22. You can squirrel hunt with a muzzleloader rifle in .32 or .36 cal., but not with a .22 rimfire. As Spock would say, "illogical." Old habits die hard, and there are plenty of them in this state when it comes to game codes that should be revised. Hunting with a handgun I am sure I'll never see in my lifetime. The concept of hunters (or anyone else) heeled with a sidearm simply scares people in this state. (Current age limitation in PA is 18 years to handgun hunt. 21 years of age in NY for a resident to handgun hunt if I remember correctly. Both states have a sportsman's permit or license that excludes concealed carry but allows hunting. Our neighboring states can do it. Why don't we? ) One example of how people get things moving with game code changes is through groups like the the NJSFSC and NJOA. There is a neeting of the New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs, for the Upland Game Committee, scheduled for Nov. 16, 2012 at 6:30 PM at the Assunpink WMA Conservation Center. · The Upland Game Committee is made up of species or issue oriented sub committees. The Six Mile Run project and the re-opening of the Dove Season have been on our agenda since the Committee was formed. We now have a third sub – committee. Any NJSFSC members interested in creating additional upland game species sub-committees will be welcomed. Events that come up in these meetings are discussed and approved before moving on to the State Membership. If you want handgun hunting, join the NJSFSC, lobby the big game committee for a motion to adopt handgun hunting, and create an agenda and plan for State approval.

"Title 23 Fish and Game, Wild Birds and Animals - Improper transportation of firearm in motor vehicle" was implemented in 1990. It was somewhat lax before that. "Carrying loaded firearms in vehicle for hunting purposes" to curtail jacklighting deer poachers and "road hunters" has been a statute for a long time, since 1971. There is even a game code for taking migratory birds "Pursuing game birds in power boats or aircraft" with a firearm or missile, which is also prohibited. Better be stationary and not be under power, so get a good retriever. And I can sleep better at nights knowing that the State banned "computer assisted remote hunting" in 2006.

The Browning BLR with its 60 degree lever throw would be optimal, vs. Winchester's or Marlin's 90 degree lever throw. The Browning's detachable box magazine is also an added plus, although limited in round capacity. The only answer is to have one of everything.

In the state of New York there are only three flavors of "pistol permit" which are pretty much self-explanatory. There is no special "restricted CCW" for concealed carry to a range. Carry concealed (without regard to employment or place of possession) Possess on premises (This does NOT cover transportation.) Its purpose: Have and possess in dwelling by a homeowner ONLY Have and possess in one place of business by a merchant or Storekeeper ONLY [*]Possess/carry during employment - with regard to employment Applicants applying for a CARRY CONCEALED pistol license are required to complete the “proper cause” forms for the issuance of this permit. No applicant will be issued an unrestricted license unless he/she is able to demonstrate a special need for the issuance thereof. If an applicant will pursue a pistol license for the purposes of hunting, target shooting, competition, hiking, camping, etc,. a SPORTSMAN restriction will be applied to the pistol license. Once you get the license for a particular handgun you can have the license amended to include additional handguns. The carry concealed permit takes an upstate New York resident about 4 to 6 months to procure. Most issuing N.Y. counties now require that the applicant take a safety course, often the preferred course is given through the issuing county office.

The Savage 1985/1899/99 have been around for quite a while. Too bad the 99 is no longer made, but there are plenty of used models around. They are gaining in collector status today. http://en.wikipedia....Savage_Model_99 The .250 Savage (or .250-3000) was the first U.S. loaded cartridge to achieve 3,000 fps in a commercial loading. And it was chambered in the Savage, almost a hundred years ago. Pump action centerfire rifles have been around since Colt released their Lightning model in 1884.

I stopped at my Dad's today to check in on him and my mother. Being an electrical engineer, and a pragmatic one at that, he had run a ground wire for his portable generator. He's 87 and still sharp as a tack.

If you are dead-set on a Mauser, or Mauser-style design, the K98, while rugged and a good choice, is crude compared to a post-war FN Mauser, Springfield or a pre-64 Winchester M70 action. Ditto for the traditional lever-actions when comparing designs like WInchester's or Marlin's against more modern designs that handle high-pressure cartridges loaded with spitzer-type bullets. The Savage 99, Win. M88, Sako Finnwolf and Browning BLR all fall into that "modern" category and offer advantages over the 94 and 336 designs. Both bolt and lever-action have their strengths and weaknesses. The key question is: What are you using them for? And why did you omit another manually-operated arm? The pump-action rifles made by Remington; the 760/6/7600? Me? I would pick a style that suits the situation, or maybe a variety of situations.

You won't have lost much with the 500 at all, and the 500 is a versatile shotgun that can be utilized for other purposes when you collect more. I started out with a pump shotgun forty-seven years ago. It still gets used today. When you shoot enough, you'll find yourself refining your taste in firearms and maybe gravitating towards a better gun, usually one suited for a clays game if that's an avenue you earnestly pursue.

Gee, I hope you're not calling me stupid from the safety of your iPad.

The B725 omits the barrel porting, and a different engraved receiver.

I never said that, but I learned a long time ago that your prospects for success are better if you don't call undue negative attention to yourself. There are better ways to go about things. With the NJ2AS' efforts to bring awareness to 2A issues in New Jersey, are they engaging authorities through intelligent discourse or are they going about it in an extreme fashion? Which method will be more successful?

If I was to look at a new O/U for clay games where I was going to shoot a lot, I would give a hard look at the Browning 725 Sporting. Enhanced slim design with a lower receiver profile, new inertia trigger, same wedge lockup and full-width hinge pin. I like the version sold in the U.K. better than the one sold in the U.S., only I don't know it's availability here.

Exactly. Susan has by her actions called unwanted attention to herself, that's viewed negatively by some. She has close to a ten-year history of run-in's with law enforcement and environmental officials, who view her in a negative fashion. Find a better martyr and I might agree with you, but not on this one.

I understand your point, and while the pastimes you've cited may be crazy, they are socially acceptable. America is a nation of risk takers, fueled by Red Bull. What Susan does in many cases are against the law per Fish & Wildlife guidelines in New Jersey. You can't interfere with wildlife biologists, you can't tamper with bear traps, you can't harass hunters, and you can't feed the bears. This is New Jersey, and the law allows the Chief of the issuing department discretionary powers. If she doesn't like the decision, she can go to court and fight it. She's been there enough times in the past so I'm sure she'll feel right at home. http://articles.lati...tivist-20120912 http://www.nj.com/ne...ctivist_is.html http://www.freerepub...s/2102681/posts

Based on this video she made, Susan just might be the bravest woman in the world. (okay, sarcasm off now.)

Bulpup, I deviated from the main topic as well. Excluding muzzleloader rifles: Groundhogs can be taken with centerfire rifles as well, provided .25 caliber or less, bullet weight 100 grs. or less, on private property. (If you know a farmer on a large expanse and you can get permission to hunt, it's a nice change of pace and you might forget you are in N.J. for awhile.) Raccoon and opossum can be taken with a .22 rimfire while night hunting. All you need are some good coonhounds to tree them. Wildlife trapped may be dispatched with a .22 as well (.22 Short, no more than 3 cartridges in the firearm.) Now, going back to Woodentoe's original thread and question, how about we fast forward twenty years from now. My question is will firearm hunters still be around? Will bowhunting become the only fashionable means for safety reasons alone as the preferred method for managing a growing deer population? As pellet guns become successful, will the ushering in of their use signal the demise of real firearms? Will 20 years of testing and advanced technology bring new ways of contraception that will scientifically manage the deer herd as opposed to hunting? And let's not forget bear contraception. Will the State review WHY they go through the trouble and expense of raising and stocking some 60,000 pheasants each year and some 6,000 quail when the land they are stocked on can't sustain the population (due to limited carrying capacity and predators.) Stocked birds serve only as put and take fodder for gun hunters who pay an extra fee to hunt them. As long as the State sees income generated by various businesses who accommodate hunters throughout the seasons, I still see hunting as a viable management tool. But as interest wanes and hunter numbers decrease, as they have each year for decades, one has got to wonder. I am sure others on both sides are thinking the same thing. Those are my alarmist questions.

There were 1,071 registered trappers in the State of New Jersey last year. The furbearers they catch are not really edible for consumption either (beaver, coyote, gray fox, mink, muskrat, nutria, opossum, raccoon, red fox, otter, skunk, weasel,) yet trappers serve a valuable purpose. There is a reason the State allows this, in addition to normal furbearer hunting with firearm or bow. Man is the only steward to balance nature today. BTW - How did we deviate away from air rifles?

But not all hunters hunt squirrel, and not all hunters are 100% successful. Small game numbers for 2011-2012: "Active firearm hunters harvested an estimated 64,981 northern bobwhite, 21,948 chukar partridge, 35,780 crows, 837 ruffed grouse, 234,748 pheasants, 4,630 woodcock, 387 eastern coyotes, 1,527 red fox, 34,011 gray squirrels, 44,451 rabbits and hares, 1,588 raccoons, 517 opossums, and 16,447 woodchucks while enjoying 286,694 recreation-days afield during 2011-12." The State takes into account game birds that are purchased, stocked and then taken on private preserves & semi-wild clubs. Hence the high numbers for quail, chukar, and pheasant. Squirrel is at the bottom of the food chart for most people. Woodcock and grouse numbers are low because there just aren't many of them around anymore, many people don't hunt them anymore, and only diehard hunters with bird dogs seem to get the most enjoyment pursuing them. They are only two of the wild native gamebirds left that the State has to offer. Quail is considered a native gamebird in New Jersey but its decline has been disastrous in the last 100 years. The State is underway with their N.J. Northern Bobwhite Action Plan now. Their goal is to reproduce the population density back to 1980 levels. On a sidenote: "Survey results estimate that small-game hunting related activities provided over $9.3 million to the State’s economy during 2011-12, compared to 11.1 million in 2009-10. In addition, the NJDFW received $3.378 million from sales of firearm licenses, pheasant/quail stamps and special coyote permits." This is another one of the important reasons the State tracks hunter numbers and game harvests.

Based on the N.J. 2011-2012 Hunter and Trapper Harvest, Recreational and Economic Survey, (in a year where the licenses sold in the State were the lowest since 1912,) of the 4,052 participants surveyed, an estimated 22,559 firearm hunters took an estimated 34,011 gray squirrels during the regular firearm season. Squirrel season opens Sept. 29., and except for days during the deer season where it's closed, goes until February 18. And there are more than a handful of people who hunt them with a regular bow or crossbow as well. An estimate of high and low harvest, broken down by shotgun vs. muzzleloader: Gray squirrel – shotgun only LOW -29,277 HIGH-37,481 Gray squirrel – ML rifle only LOW -1,899 HIGH-2,698 Squirrel total - LOW -29,720 HIGH-38,303 All of this info can be found on the State's Division of Fish & Wildlife website.

Google "Hushpower." Very popular over there. Then look at the Hastings Metro Barrel. Legal here in the U.S. (only a bit awkward.) Not exactly a silencer, but it reduces noise. http://www.metrogun.com/ http://www.midwayusa...y-12-gauge-blue

No centerfire pump action or semi-atutomatics though. Can only have those in .22 rimfire. And don't you dare show up at a driven pheasant shoot with the Queen sporting a Beretta 391. While they are allowed, you'll be labeled a heathen despite your smart looking tweeds.

You bring up a compelling point. I think it was no small coincidence that Sunday bowhunting and a change to the safety zone limit to 150' was implemented to accommodate and curtail the ever-growing deer population in a state with diminishing open land, while remaining a favorable solution to some by not introducing firearm hunting into the mix. And of course, added seasons, permits and doe and buck tags bring needed fee income to keep the F&W program alive. Will firearms be allowed for hunting twenty or thirty years from now? What say you? Opening game seasons up to include airguns for small game is a good way to spark interest with existing hunters and bring new hunters afield in a state where license sales continue to go down. But it could present a slippery slope as you indicate. The additional use of rifle for certain species certainly adds a new twist, but its use and breath is limited to certain areas. Some points to ponder: New Jersey loses on average 7,000 acres per year to sprawl and development. Less land each year, less places to shoot and hunt. Fewer hunters buy hunting licenses to hunt each year. The state has to be progressive for the F&W program to succeed. As for allowing handgun hunting in New Jersey, well, I doubt that will never happen. I am pretty sure there are only two states in the U.S. that don't allow handgun hunting. Rhode Island is one, New Jersey is the other. (Yes, you CAN handgun hunt in every other state, of course with some restrictions.) Dove hunting? Maybe someday, but birdwatchers think they're a songbird in this state and have expressed their displeasure to hunting them for some time now. And their voice is effective. Quoting the state's chief biologist; "The anti-hunters are more organized and better prepared than the hunters." On a side note, each year my friends get together for an early -season squirrel hunt in the Stewart Land Co-Op in New York. While that county is designated for handgun and rifle use, neither are allowed on the Stewart property. So my friends take their scoped pellet guns and sharpen their skills on some bushytails.

If I could have one back that I sold it would be my S&W M52.

Agreed. As a duty weapon, I could see why the double slide bars would be preferred for pounding out a stuck round. The way the forend attaches on the Remington is better than the Ithaca. I've seen "pounded" Ithaca's shear the tiny threads on the forend's end cap before bending the bar. The weak link in the stuck case proposition is the extractor, not the slide bars. The single extractor of the Remington is less advantageous that the dual Ithaca or Winchester extractors. When Remington introduced the 870, their only real competition at the time was the M12 or M37. "Dual" certainly sounded better, and its intent was to limit binding. Early Mossberg 500's had a single action bar too, but couldn't compare in quality to some of the guns mentioned at the time. Mossberg's today now have dual action bars. Dual bars are the way to go today, and the Mossberg's and Remington's popularity bear that out.

Griz, I would have to disagree with this statement. Double action slide bars are a solution to a problem that never existed. The Remington Model 17, which evolved into the Remington Model 31, which later became the Ithaca Model 37; all have a single action bar. And they are probably the slickest of all pump actions made. The Winchester Model 97 and Model 12 also had a single action bar. And their design, smoothness and strength are legendary. PS - I remember when S&W made ammunition in the 70's into the 80's. They seemed to have spread themselves thin at that time trying to be all things in the market when they were a Bangor Punta Company.