johnott

+100 Ditto to that. IF the time ever comes where I find myself in a home defense situation I won't be thinking about this thread or all the NJ statutes and laws... and all the gray areas of law or legal debate. I will be thinking about the safety of my family and myself. I am not going to try and analyze the actions of an intruder as to why or how or what if. Sometimes in life mistakes can happen... like that 22 year old drunk woman in Colorado entering someones home in the middle of the night. Oops she made a mistake. (She also could have been driving drunk and had an accident and killed a couple of people, but fortunately that part didn't happen.) The the point is, I'm not responsible for all the choices other people make. For the most part, if someone enters my home uninvited in the middle of the night they had better keep their distance, identify themselves and make no sudden or threatening movements. That's the best I can do.

The building of distribution warehouses has been approved. As reported today in the Courier-Post... Amazon.com will collect the state's 7 percent sales tax for purchases made in New Jersey starting in July 2013. IMHO: Whether it's good for the state coffers is a moot point if those in the local and state government cannot control their spending. Also, it may add some jobs but in the grand scheme of things... it's a drop in the bucket compared to that which is needed to pull us out of the hole we are in. We really need more manufacturing jobs not just short term construction projects. (Jobs are temporary, taxes are forever.) (I am not opposed to paying taxes.) But this state can't seem to get enough of our money and this is one more example of how 'aggressive' they are when it comes to taxes. The tax burden levied on businesses was one of the main reasons we lost so many jobs in the first place. Companies left NJ in droves. (Residents too). My assumption about the Amazon deal is: NJ gave Amazon a sweetheart tax deal in exchange for building their warehouse's here. NJ is hoping to recoup any losses though projected sales tax collections. This presumes that most people in NJ do not pay their sales tax for online purchases and therefore NJ would get a windfall of new tax revenue. If they are wrong in their presumption and most people do pay these taxes or if people no longer purchase from Amazon to avoid paying such taxes then they will not collect the necessary tax money projected which may (in effect) create a loss of tax revenue balanced against any reduced tax rate given to Amazon. And depending on the location of these facilities a large portion of the workers may end up being from PA, NY, or DE and not NJ residents at all. Of all the businesses they could woo, of all the ways they could create jobs, ...this is the best they could do? Sorry if I don't stand up and cheer, but I'll reserve my applause until I see the final result. Cheers to all.

Welcome Bryan.

He forgot the first rule of weight training safety... always treat your dumbbell as if it were loaded.

Question: In a real disaster or state of emergency can the governor (of NJ) order local PD's or SP or NG to... 1. Confiscate your firearms? 2 Close all gun shops and ranges? 3. Prohibit the sale of firearms and ammo? 4. Force you to evacuate your home? 5. Force you to stay in your home? 6. Ration the sale of Gasoline? 7. Close all bridges and restrict persons from leaving the state? ...and the list goes on. ( I suppose it would have been better to ask, what can't they do. ) Anyone have any thoughts or info relating to Emergency Powers.

Why aren't Gun Shops and Ranges circulating any of these petitions? They stand to benefit from them as much as anyone. (just curious.)

There is a older documentary on Nova, "Battle of the X-Planes" where they show the proto-types for this new multi-role aircraft. (As best as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong.) The armed forces wanted one aircraft design that could be used by every branch of the military. The Air Force wanted a stealthy multi-role fighter like the F-22, the Navy wanted an aircraft with the ability to take-off and land on an aircraft carrier like the F-18, the Marines wanted one with Vertical Takeoff and Landing capabilities like the Harrier. Therefore a single aircraft design had to be able to be configured in each of those three versions. This idea was supposed to save money, but there have been huge cost overruns... (why am I not surprised). As of Feb. 2012 the Air Force was upgrading 350 F-16's because F-35 production has been delayed by a host of technical problems. It will be an awesome plane if they can ever work the bugs out. -This program hasn't been put on the chopping block because we put all of our eggs in one basket. We have no other program or option to replace our aging tactical aircraft. It used to be that each branch of the military would give out separate contracts and get aircraft designed specifically for their needs. But, someone had the bright idea to issue one big contract that was to cover a design for everyone. It hasn't worked out so good.

After finding out more details, it appears after Fleming found that his home had been burglarized he got mad, got his gun and went looking for the burglar. He didn't call the cops at all, a neighbor did. Going and looking for trouble is not a good idea unless you suspect someone may be in danger, otherwise wait for reinforcements. IMO the degree of recklessness is debatable. How readily a round may recochet and the lethality may be dependant on a number of things... what type of ammo was used, what angle it was fired at, what was the terrain like etc. We don't know any of those facts. It's odd that the only thing Fleming is charged with is firing his handgun in a reckless manner. Sooo does that mean that if he never fired it, but still held the burglar at gunpoint they would have been o.k. with that? Go figure.

NH law... did he draw a weapon... did he fire the weapon... yada yada yada. - I say in this case, no harm no foul. Let the man go and give him back his guns. Aren't we supposed to be innocent until proven guilty? Would they take all of your cars away if just one of them were involved in an accident? ...Oh that's right, presumption of innocence doesn't apply to gun owners, I forgot. Guns are evil and everyone who owns a gun is suspect.

Shatner just moved up a notch in my book. Way to go Bill. Very Funny. *Kirk wouldn't be able to get to the phasers because they'd have to be locked up in the cargo hold and he could only transport them if he were traveling by shuttle craft to and from the earth (with no unreasonable deviations.)

Sad, very sad. Such a tragedy. We also extend our thoughts and prayers to the Tezsla family.

Time to invest in a steel door.

I hear that. Not only is ammo more expensive, but they seem to run out of stock more often; at least online for bulk purchases (IMO) And besides economic inflation, it may be partly due to all the hype in the news and the TV with shows like Doomsday Preppers. (I watch it) But they give such hardcore examples that it tends to make the average prepper or non-prepper feel so woefully unprepared that they want to race out and buy more food, ammo, guns, etc... hence an even larger spike in prices.

Will do. My wife and I share the same membership and most of the time she ends up asking me when are we going to to the range because SHE wants to shoot. (How sweet is that!). But just to clarify, At Hague's you are "Allowed to bring outside ammunition" you can't use any reloads, but you can use your own ammo in your own gun. You don't have to buy their ammo unless you are using one of their rentals. And "Full members can bring One Guest at No Charge" Full members are those who have a one year membership as opposed to a 6 month membership. So, you can bring a friend at no charge and they can shoot their own gun or one of yours using your/their own ammo and it shouldn't cost you a thing. (Everything in quotes is taken directly from Hague's website membership info page.)

I know how you feel. My wife and I are in the same boat, our Hagues membership will be up soon and the renewal fee of $400 has me scratching my head. We also live very close to the range so the convenience factor is hard to overcome. Also, there is nothing to do at Hagues... no clubs or activities etc. I've been to the SJSC for a CCW class and I liked what I saw there, but it is a good 40 minute drive from where I live (it's like driving from Hagues to the SJSC). In spite of the travel time I still thought about going there because I like the idea of shooting outdoors; it's not so loud for the ears and it would be under natural lighting. Also it seems more like freedom. When I shoot indoors it feels like I'm doing something secretive. On the other hand, since there is no indoor range at all... shooting on cold winter days would be something I'm not sure I'd like to do. ouch. Thought about TargetMaster in PA, but after considering the Toll costs... we dropped that idea. So, we are caught between a rock and a hard place. (Still torn.) If Hague's would give a 10% discount on renewals, it would help. Currently we are leaning towards reluctantly renewing our membership but increasing our trips to the range which would mean shooting more .22 ammo as opposed to the big guns. We Figure the more trips we make then the more cost effective the membership becomes, especially if the price of gas keeps going up. I've heard it might reach $4 a gallon by summer. Good luck with your decision, I know it isn't easy.

From everything I've read, I think deadly force was uncalled for in this case. Sgt. Loggins actions may have been irrational, but deadly force has to be a last resort and I find it hard to believe that there was no other way to subdue this guy. Another unarmed person being shot and killed by their local PD. Seems like I've read too many of these stories as of late and I find it disturbing.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. May she rest in peace.

Spouse and I both signed it. (Count was at 4,507... and growing.)

I believe every person at any given moment in time has a limt. Whether it is with their patience, or understanding, or whatever. I believe that teenage rebellion can range from benign to crimminal in behavior. None of us knows in advance what we will confront as parents. Can anyone truthfully say that before they became parents they knew what their children would be like? That they knew the specific hardships they would have to deal with as parents? You can theorize, debate and read endlessly... but it all boils down to experiencing it for yourself. Some of the countless judgements you have to make as parents may be under great stress and are far from easy. Some problems have no right or wrong answer. Life in general doesn't really prepare a person for parenting... it's something that you just have to do the best you can at. Based on what I've said so far, it seems as parents ourselves, we should give another parent the benefit of the doubt as to their methods of raising their children. (As long as it is not crimminal in nature.) Some of us, if it had been our daughter, may have reached their limit well before he did and some of us way after... but that's an individual thing. You can't fault someone because they don't have your values or limits.

For any new handguns I do; Nj already has the model and serial number anyway from my P2P so privacy is rather moot. Since I haven't any shotguns or rifles yet, I am undecided about whether I would register/warranty them, but I currently lean towards registering for safety recall reasons. (I also don't use a primary email address only a secondary one).

Note> -IMO- As to whether it truly was extreme or awesome parenting in this situation is unknown. I have my opinions which I will get to, but in truth the only measure is what was the outcome. If they and their daughter became closer because of it and they mended their fences and opened a dialog, then it did succeed and it was awesome. On the other hand, if their daughter became totally alienated from them then it failed and may have been extreme. I say "may have" because it could be that there was nothing they could have done, extreme or otherwise, that may have changed their daughters view towards them or their relationship. We just don't know. I was a teen once and I am a parent of grown and teenage children. Personally, I liked the video. I know where he's coming from. He is hurt and totally amazed by his daughters true feelings. I mean most teens (not all) grumble about doing any kind of chore, but she spoke of them like they were trash and lazy slobs. Maybe it's be true, but probably not. In my experience most teens are prone to exaggerate when they are trying to make a point. Why? Because at their age they are trying to become an individual, or what they believe to be an adult. One way they do this, is for them to be their own person which means seperating themselves from their parents and this is where conflict can originate. If the parent says "left" the teen says "right". They tend to think that if they are like their parents then they are not themsleves and therefore are not individuals. This obsession with themselves can lead to a streak of selfishness which they are oft times unable to see. Yet knowing this as a parent does not shield you from the hurt or frustration you may experience. The father could have chosen a different way to try and get his message across, but he didn't do anything illegal. I think that he was at his wits end with this girl. IMO He tried everything he could think of and even reached the point where he grounded her for 3 months (wow, that's a long time.) But that didn't seem to correct her attitude, she only resented her parents authority. If she thinks her parents aren't fair wait till she get's out in the real world. How will she deal with real disappointment or lack of fairness? Why did he post a video on facebook as opposed to confronting his daughter privately? My guess would be, that while on her facebook page he also had the to opportunity to read the comments of her friends regarding her post. I can imagine what their comments must have been. (the parents probably knew some of these kids as well) I think the father felt that he had to set the record straight and to let everyone know that they were not the ogres their daughter portrayed them to be. I don't think the father knew that the video would be lifted off facebook and become viral. The main reason I think the video went viral was because of the .45. If the video ended where the father said, now I am taking your laptop away, the end. I don't think it would have been as big an issue. I think the thing that disturbs most people (even some gun owners) is the discharging of a weapon by someone just to make a statement. You have to be careful of your motivation and intent. You don't want to be viewed as a careless or angry person with a gun or anything that can be construed as such. Why did he choose to shoot the lap top... Once again I think it reveals his utter frustration with dealing with his/their daughter. There are many things he could have done and there may have been many things he has already done, but nothing seemed to work. He probably thought it was extreme himself, but figured desperate times call for desperate measures. In summary, parenting should be left to the parents not to the government or the community at large. We all make mistakes, have times of poor judgement etc. and if all of us had to have our parenting skills analyzed, we would be deficient in some way. Personally I think his video was something many parents can identify with. -I will now step down off my soapbox.

The situation definitely needs further investigation. If the story was that the PD followed a suspected drug dealer to the house. Then PD broke down the door and arrested the guy with a stash of drugs, most of us probably wouldn't have a problem with that. But, when an unarmed person is shot by a LEO you automatically call the motive and tactics of the PD into question. My question(s) would be: if you thought that the suspect might have a gun (or you didn't know one way or the other) why would you break down the bathroom door? Bathrooms are typically very small rooms and once through the door you'd be right on top of the guy. Why risk getting shot at point blank range coming through the door? What was so urgent? Also, and (obviously) what indicated that the suspect was armed and that you and/or a fellow officer were in immediate danger?

Ouch! Now my brain hurts. Wherefore, as defined by, Paragraph x of subsection z, thereto and hereby... you've got to be kidding.

I agree, the article is somewhat jumbled. -But watching the video helps a little bit.

I've tried to verify this story as best I could, but I can find nothing. According to his post which was dated (Sunday) Jan. 29th the event happened on Saturday (the day before). I looked at the facebook page for worcesterphotostudios.com that he mentioned and apparently it's his facebook page (at least it seems so, the email is patrick@... ) and there were really no other postings except for comment ratings (likes). In his orginal story he doesn't refer to the police department or town by name. His cell phone number is for Worchester Massachusetts and so I searched various news agencies in that region via the internet. Google , Bing... nothing. Tried crime logs, nothing. I'm not saying his story is fabricated, but he would need to be more forthcoming before I would send him any financial support. As far as his guilt or innocence goes... there isn't enough information to say what he is innocent or guilty of.