johnott

A "spring loaded gravity knife"? I thought a gravity knife was either gravity operated or it wan't. (???)

The police did get there, eventually. http://www.myfoxhous...rs-off-with-gun

<Had to start a new thread. I was begining to feel I was derailng the original post.> I whole heartedly agree that an individual does not need an FPID to buy a handgun, they only need a P2P. -You go to a gun shop (or whatever) you give them your P2P you pay for the handgun and you're done. Having said that, my question reverts to the application to get the P2P. It's been my experience thus far, that I need to supply my FPID number on the application to get the P2P. For each of the handguns we purchased in the last year, the P2P's were issued with the FPID numbers on them already. If you already have an FPID and you are just getting P2P's, what do you put in Block 15 "N.J. FIREARMS ID CARD/SBI NUMBER" of form STS-33,? Do you leave it blank? Do you put in your FPID number? (I don't know how I would get the SBI number since I get the forms as a package and the SBI hasn't been sent in yet.) For that matter, has anyone gotten a P2P who didn't't have an FPID? I'm just curious. Does everyone do it this way?

I have a S&W 642 revolver... it's light and has a concealed hammer (internal). I can easily carry in my pocket or even an ankle holster as a backup to CCW. There is an older thread about this, use search term "wesson 642".

Added to my wish list. -I hope the price will be as flexible as the gun.

Sorry. For some reason I was thinking 1999 when I was looking at the "09". Must be a learning disability. lol -But the various information does underscore the inability of state agencies to provide correct information to the public. (I hope there is no newer revision out there.) I've got to take a break, this stuff drives me crazy.

*I have to ammend my earlier statement concerning the P2P application. The STS-33 I looked at wasRev. 09/09, a more current revision Rev. 11/03, block 15 reads "If you possess a N. J. Firearms Purchaser ID Card, list the number". Also, in an online pdf for instructions on filling out the application they state "Application for Permit to Purchase Handgun" "You must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun and possess a Firearms I.D. card." http://www.stratford...instruction.pdf So where does that leave us, I don't know. At every turn I see something different. The State changes the rules at whim and you're expected to know every little nuance and minute detail of how and when they make a change. (I don't want more restrictions either. I just want the State to come forward and tell us what's what, so we can follow the rules without worrying that we may be unintentionally breaking them.) *Disregard. This statement was in error as pointed out by Pizza Bob in a subsequent post. (2009 is the more recent revision). My bad.

What puzzles me is, my handgun purchasing permit application and the permits have my FPID number on them. In block #15 of the application under (15) N.J. FIREARMS ID CARD/SBI NUMBER and on the Permit in IDENTIFICATION CARD NO./SBI# block. I see that an SBI number can be used instead of a FPID, but I don't know where you get that number. On my SBI 212A form it has a block labled "SBI number (if known)". Otherwise the only number the SBI form has on it (at the time I filled it out) was an ORI number. It seems like the average person would have to use their FPID to purchase a handgun. And I do believe when I bought both of my handguns (at two different places in South Jersey) I was asked for my FPID and I think they made a copy of it each time. If it isn't required by law, it still seems to be used as a matter of practice (much like our Social Security Numbers). On a side note: The minimum this state could do: is every FPID applicant should get a free cd/dvd covering safety and NJ firearms laws. They could even hold a brief classroom where they review the information and answer any questions you may have. Then at the end of class you get your FPID. That way you have something to fall back on. If there's any question as to the interpretation of a specific law you can always say, "Hey, that's what the state told me." I mean if they are going to regulate the hell out of everything, at least they could do is give you the tools to follow the laws. Doesn't have to be mandatory, but for those who want to take it you could give then a sticker or stamp on their FPID showing that they took the "course". (Sorry Jonfoxx, don't mean to hijack your thread with my questions.) Thanks Pizza Bob for your input, it's appreciated.

Thanks for your input Pizza Bob. NJ drives me batty with their firearms restrictions. I'm a conscientiousness person, I want to follow the rules, I don't want any trouble... I try my best to understand the laws that exist in our state. I've read through the laws in Title 2C:39. Some things I think I understand whereas others I don't. So I read through the forums and gather other web related info to try and educate myself. I may read a post where someone makes a good argument for a certain interpretation of the law. Sounds good, logical, and reasonable, so I adopt that view too. But on a later date I read a good dissenting view and am persuaded to lean the other way... and back and forth I go. Then to top it off it doesn't matter what view I take because (right or wrong) it ultimately depends on the view of the LEO, local DA or Judge. So I am then forced into one of two decisions, 1. believe what I want and in my own interpretation of the law or 2. play it safe and adopt a view that holds the most restrictive interpretation of the law so that I'm sure I am within it's limits. Some people advocate talking to a lawyer, but there seems to be just as many differing opinions among lawyers as there are among the rest of us. If I knew that the law would follow a common sense approach that involves considering all that a reasonable person would do, I would feel more at ease. But nothing I've read makes me feel confident that NJ will give me that benefit should the need arise. I've never been stopped and searched by an LEO in my entire life and see no reason why I ever would be, but the fact that I could be violating the law unintentionally and then incur serious jail time because of it, frankly it bothers me. Laws that are so poorly written, that make little exception for the average citizen. Laws like that are not merely written against firearms, they are written against the people of this state. Do we as people deserve so little respect and trust that in order to protect us from ourselves we need to be watched and restricted at every turn? The political engine of this state must think that we have no common sense whatsoever. I hope that someday (in my lifetime) NJ will give more credit and respect to it's citizens that legally own and use firearms and along with that it will adopt a more friendly and reasonable firearms policy. /rant over/

So in your opinion, does that mean you can't have it in your possession or that you can't use it, or both? A hypothetical situation... My wife and I are coming home from the range, we both have our own handguns in the trunk. My wife's mother lives on the same road that the range is on ( you have to drive by it to get to the range). My wife wants me to pull over and drop her off at her mother's as opposed to driving home first (which would be a 16 mile round trip). I continue home with our handguns in the trunk, but she is no longer present. OR what if my wife was at her mother's and says she'll meet me at the range and to bring her handgun so we can go shooting?

Wow, this thread is still going. I'm relatively new here and I don't have the insight or experience that many of you seem to have when it comes to ammo, guns, knives etc. It surprised me how this topic morphed into something so divisive (speaking of the LEO/civilian issue). I know we all come from different backgrounds and age groups, but we have a lot in common as well... our apparent love and interest in firearms. Let's not forget that people like us are a minority in this state and we need all the friends we can get. As far as the original topic; anything that diminishes or restricts 2A rights is of interest to me. Thanks for the info. (I'm in my fifties. A military veteran (not career). Been around the block a few times. Just thought I'd mention this to give some perspective to my opinions. Also, my avatar is Gen. Philip Sheridan)

Seal Team 6. +10002

O.K. I got it, I found it on page 62 of the General Small Game Hunting pdf. Thanks. (I do remember a shotgun season now that I think about it. I just never realized that they would let you shoot such small game with a bow.) You'd have to be pretty close or an awful good shot. But as far as rifle is concerned it would be muzzle loading only... correct?

To the best of my knowledge, if you are hunting squirrel in NJ it is done with a muzzleloading rifle only (.36 caliber or smaller loaded with a single projectile). And a rifle permit is needed.

Sorry to say, I haven't heard of anything that will stop a determined squirrel. Somethings may work for a brief time but they soon figure it out and then they're back as bold as ever. Most neighborhood squirrels are so used to humans and their pets that they are not detered by the presence or smell of either. The only thing I've seen that might deter them from a yard or garden is a water sprayer that is activated by a motion sensor... but it's fairly expensive. (And there is no guarantee it will work.) "Nj" wants you to PAY an exterminator to get rid of your pests. (Pay, Pay , Pay, that's all we ever do in this state.)

I've been down this road already. Firearms of any kind are absolutely out of the question (except perhaps by farmers on their own land). Catch and relocate is not as easy as it sounds. Basically, you cannot catch and relocate anything without the approval of Fish and Game. And there are limitations on certain animals as to how far you can relocate them from the original sight from where they were caught. The following quote is from an online pdf that I found which details the POLICY ON THE RELOCATION OF WILDLIFE per the State of NJ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Nuisance Wildlife Relocation of nuisance wildlife must be evaluated on a case by case basis. Whenever possible, habitat alteration (i.e., capping chimney) and education of the homeowner in order to allow release on site is encouraged. Failure to remedy the situation by using exclusionary devices or removing the attractant (i.e., garbage) will guarantee that the problem will continue even if the offending animal is removed. If release on site is not practical, relocation must follow the guidelines below. Before relocating any adult wildlife during the spring and summer, a search for their newborn animals should be conducted. If found, these young must be relocated with the adults. Any trapped nuisance wildlife that appears to be injured or sick should be placed with a licensed wildlife rehabilitator for evaluation prior to release. If release on site or relocation of a nuisance animal will create a new problem, euthanasia of the problem animals should be considered. Property owners and occupants of dwellings, or their agents in writing, may control property damage by lawful means when suffering such damage from squirrel, raccoon, opossum, skunk, weasel and woodchucks (N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.21). If euthanasia is found to be the only viable method of control, the above species may be euthanized according to the methods declared as acceptable or conditionally acceptable in the most recent report of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Guidelines on Euthanasia. The AVMA report states drowning is not an acceptable method of euthanasia. Other municipal and state laws apply. Most other wildlife species are controlled by state and/or federal regulations and lethal control measures are regulated by the Division of Fish and Wildlife and in some cases, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service." Department of Environmental Protection Division of Fish and Wildlife, Trenton, NJ (A copy of the AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia can be found online as well) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Even if you were to use a kill type trap ie. #110 conibear, which has no approved legal use on squirrels (at least none that I know of and I would appreciate if some would correct me if I'm wrong) and even if it were done legally... it can't be done openly in the public eye. The average person is not kill trap friendly and it may incur a lot of complaints from your neighbors etc. as well as criminal charges of animal cruelty. FYI: kill type traps do not always provide an instant or speedy death and there are times in which to lessen the suffering of a trapped animal you may have hasten death in a humane but manual means. To some people squirrels are cute and fuzzy pets, to others they are pests and to some they are good eats. NJ makes it very difficult for home owners to control pest wildlife. (Just one more reason to move out of this state.) -Good luck. Also, see this website for more info http://www.unexco.com/trapsquirrels.html

Comments removed (wrong thread).

The customer (a ccw holder) was only 22 years old. He had remarkable self control under the circumstances. He first tried to subdue the men until police arrived (I assume that means at gunpoint) and didn't fire until a weapon was pointed at him. Then when he did fire he hit the gunman in the head and chest... good marksmanship considering. The part that was unclear is to how he got into a physical altercation with the second suspect. It seems to suggest that the second suspect had a firearm on him but didn't pull it. After his partner was shot the second suspect headed towards the door to flee the scene. [At that point the ccw holder, not wanting to fire upon an apparently unarmed man, moved into the suspect's path to prevent him from leaving. < my interpretation]. The suspect (now being in close proximity) made a grab for the customers gun. They struggled, the customer fired a shot to make the suspect release his hold and it apparrently worked. The man fled but was subsequently arrested. I am not applauding the fact that someone was killed (even though they deserved it), I think the kid should be congratulated for being so responsible. It's a shame he had to shoot anyone, but he had no choice. Question: In this case, should the ccw holder have blocked the second suspect from exiting the restaurant? Doing so, almost got his firearm taken away from him.

I do not condone the use of airport millimeter wave scanners, but at least when you go through an airport scanner you know you're being scanned, and by default are giving your consent. The new Terahertz Imaging system has a huge potential for misuse. It is not accurate, it can only identify something that may be a gun. Even if it were 100% accurate... it could create whole new set of problems. That's all we need, criminals getting this new technology and being able to drive around looking for victims by scanning them to see if they are armed or not. Kind of takes away the concealed portion of a ccw. (I know that the use of scanners by criminals is a stretch... but I'm just trying to make the point that many times new technology can be used by them for their own advantage.) As far as legal use (or so called).... What if you're on your front stoop when an LEO drives by with a scanner. Do they now have probable cause to search your house as well? What's next, Terahertz scanners at the entrance to stores and movie theatre's. Scanners that point down into your vehicle at toll booths or fast food drive thru's? What if you are carrying something that could house or shield a gun? What if you are wearing an item of clothing that could shield a gun? Can they search you for that reason? :wild:

Hickok45. Nice guy. Great tubes.

(copied from a statement I made in a different post on 14 Sept.) "I recently had a similar problem, but it was with the State Police SBI form. They state in the application packet that you can apply for an exception or waiver of the $18 fee if you have been fingerprinted or have submitted the SBI 212A within the past 12 months. (Well my wife and I just received our FID and one permit each within the last 5 months.) We were applying for some additional permits and I sent a letter with each application requesting a waiver of the $18 fee based on the noted exceptions. They wouldn’t do it. They responded by requesting a money order for the fees anyway. What can you do eh? It’s up to their discretion and if they don’t want to give you a break they don’t have to. But this is the NJ way… taxes and fees." It delayed my processing time by about a week. Good Luck.

Possess: Exercising dominion over property; having custody and control of property. (http://law.yourdictionary.com) Ownership: The total body of rights to use and enjoy a property, to pass it on to someone else as an inheritance, or to convey it by sale. Ownership implies the right to possess property, regardless of whether or not the owner personally makes constructive use of it. (http://law.yourdictionary.com) (To play devils advocate) The only term that seems somewhat ambiguous is the word "possess". It can be readily applied to a place of residence. But if that interpretation were used for a place of business would not a manager be a person having custody but not ownership of property ie, a business? My personal view is that a business must be one that you own. I say this because of the way NJ has written other restrictions with regards to firearms possession. The writing of this legislation seems to follow the narrow limitations that they have always used. It seems unlikely that they somehow deviated from that intent and are allowing all employees at all places of business to carry a firearm (I think it's just wishful thinking to believe that they somehow left some big loophole in the law.)

After examining the following phrase, "shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm" I find the the the term "or other land owned or possessed by him" to be the qualifying statement. That is to say, the following places: a business, residence, premises or land that are owned or possessed by him. It reads like a list of specific places followed by a catch-all phrase to include any other place that falls into the same category. (ie. places that you own or possess.) Whether by lease, deed or contract your name is assigned to the place in question and that is what gives you the right to carry there. (IMHO of course.)

I tried looking for that news topic but couldn't find it through a Google search. The only thing I could find was a statement made Friday, February 18, 2011 which said that Philadelphia will not recognize out-of-state carry licenses held by Pennsylvania residents, unless the individual also holds a Pennsylvania concealed carry license. (source: forum discussion at defensivehandguns.com) (Supposedly Philly is concerned about PA residents whom they deny CCW permits to and then gain access to carry by appropriating a permit from Florida.) Philadelphia is crazy if they think they can win this one. By law the PA Attorney General is the only entity that can make or break reciprocity agreements in the state of PA. -Nutter is more than a name, it's a frame of mind.

PA's reciprocity agreements can be found on the PA Attorney Generals website http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184 If you read PA's reciprocity agreement with Florida it basically says, any valid Florida CCW holder can legally carry concealed in the state of Pa. (I'm also a NJ resident and have CCW's from FL and Utah.) (As I understand your question, When you say "they" you mean PA not FL.)