Midwest

It says here that you can get a permit from the mayor......in 1921.... Chapter 108 Laws of 1921 Page 206 - 207 Permit to carry. Any person who shall carry any ....sand-bag,slung-shot.....written permit to carry such a weapon...obtained from and signed by the Mayor of any city... http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/diglib.cgi?collect=njleg&file=145&page=0206&zoom=90

I did some more searching , The process for a permit for a firearm goes back even further to 1912 and the Mayor can even issue permits. There are 1912 and 1921 Laws and the latter updates the 1912 act. Chapter 225 Laws, Session of 1912 Page 364 Permit needed for carrying...Carrying dangerous weapons a misdemeanor and talks about what items are 'dangerous' and how to obtain a permit and exemptions.. http://lawlibrary.ru...ile=136&zoom=90 (The 1912 law is expanded in 1921 and I left most of that wording in.) ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 108 Laws of 1921 Page 206 - 207 Permit to carry. Any person who shall carry any revolver, pistol, firearm,bludgeon,blackjack,knuckles,sand-bag,slung-shot (NOT SLING SHOT) or other deadly,offensive or dangerous weapon, or any stiletto, dagger or razor or any knife with a blade five inches in length or over concealed in or about his clothes or person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, however, nothing in this act shall be construed to prevent any sheriff,prosecutor,deputy sheriff, jailor, police officer, constable, State detective, member of a legally organized detective agency, or any peace officer or regular fish and game warden from carrying weapons when engaged in the discharge of his duty; nor duly authorized military or civil organizations, when parading nor members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations; nor shall this act apply to any person having a written permit to carry such a weapon, firearm,stiletto,razor,dagger, or knife, or slung shot obtained from and signed by the Mayor of any city, borough or other municipality, or from any judge of Court of Common Pleas, which permits such officers are hereby to grant. Such permits shall be issued at the place of residence of the person obtaining the same, and, when issued shall be in force in all parts of the state for a period of one year from date of issue. (This goes on even longer) http://lawlibrary.ru...ge=0206&zoom=90 The permit process is actually 90 years old, I imagine calling up your local Mayor and asking for a carry permit for a slung-shot or a sand-bag, might prove to be interesting...

My geographic location

Correct and confirmed Chapter 212 Laws of 1928 Pages 384 - 385 License needed for carrying....I did a little more digging and found a law in 1928 that required a license to carry. There was exceptions for those who hunted and did target practice and that seems to jive with older members recalling that they or their dad or relatives open carried. They could have used the target practice exemption as a reason for carrying and probably a lot of people got away with it and especially in rural areas where no one would blink an eye if someone had a gun all the way into the mid 1960's in those areas. My earlier comments (based on reports of others) that open carry was tolerated in some areas seems to ring true even though the law was that a license was needed. In addition there was a whole page of exemptions in addition to the target and hunting clauses. From law enforcement ,military, fish and game wardens, canal police, to even steamboat police as well as motor vehicle inspectors! Why did motor vehicle inspectors keep coming up in these various gun laws? Motor vehicle inspectors had more rights than a law abiding citizen! Approved April 3 1928 http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/diglib.cgi?collect=njleg&file=152&page=0384&zoom=90 Couple of things I didn't touch on when I did part two. The 1966 FID law in general seems to take elements of and, sections of earlier laws with the penalties and revised and updated them with the added requirement for the FID card for rifles and such. It seemed like a massive consolidation in one big pile. The thing about informing the police of purchases goes back to 1924 with the conceal carry law, and that is where these things started. The current FID system seems to have roots in the 1927 machine gun law where one needed to procure and possess a license. Today one has to procure and possess a FID before one can obtain a rifle or shotgun in NJ. A lot of the current regulations especially the handgun regulations actually has roots dating back over eighty years ago. The License to carry rule actually goes way back to 84 years ago! Finally a big thanks to Rutgers Online Law Library for having an outstanding and very valuable and historical resource. Without that site, part two and this addition would not have been possible. Midwest

Part Deux of When did New Jersey become so anti-gun ? The background This finishes up the project and I hope it was as informative to you as it was to me. I discovered an excellent source for the completion of this project. I was thinking maybe weeks or months to research the rest. Discovered Rutgers Law Library online. With this you can go all the way back to 1776 and research all the laws of New Jersey for each year. If you are a history buff or know someone who is this site is full of valuable history and the formation of our country. Unfortunately I could not go from year to year and compare one years statues against another year. But I could check the known years when certain legislation was passed and checked the index to see if there was any new legislation of interest. You can easily research this stuff yourself if you want. Here is the main index below. http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/njleg/index.shtml Summary; there were surprises. Air and spring guns appear to have been outlawed in 1958 ?. And in 1954 a permit to purchase a handgun was needed, however in 1924 is when the concealed carry license came in effect and that calls for registration and and non could be sold after 3pm. What a bizarre coincidence that another Constitutional Convention was called for 1966, the same year as the Sills Gun Control Act? Wholesalers of Firearms and Manufacturers of "dangerous instumentalities" (it really is worded that way) needed to register in 1951. Want a Tommy Gun ? Well in 1927 is when they started to require to 'procure and possess a license to purchase' a machine gun. And we finally get down to the mystery of that "noxious thing" that keeps showing up in the gun laws. Chapter 43 Laws of 1965 Page 102 Here they talk about a upcoming Constitutional Convention for the following year, for March 21 1966 in New Brunswick at Rutgers or at any other place the Governor may designate. (I find this interesting because March 1966 is when the American Rifleman started sounding the alarm about the new proposed law regarding firearm permits and such...Assembly Bill 165 or the Sills Act of 1966...just a coincidence..) http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0102&zoom=70 ____________________________________________________________________ Chapter 60 Laws of 1966 Pages 480 - 506 Firearms Laws Revising, repealing and supplementing parts of Statutory Law. This is the one that changed things and the one you want to research yourself. Sills Act of 1966 or the FID 1966 Gun Control Law all 26 pages worth. The exact law, the exact wording, 1966 style. http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0480&zoom=60 __________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 32 Laws of 1959 Page 125 Carry Permits for Armed Guards do not have to be renewed as long as they are employed. Others who have carry concealed permits will have their permits expire December 31 of each year to be renewed annually. http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...le=183&zoom=90 __________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 91 Laws of 1958 Page 534 Anyone who sells, manufactures, barters, hires, gives, buys,possesses,uses, shoots or knowingly delivers any spring gun, air gun or pistol with or any other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring or air and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than 3/8" inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Approved June 30 1958 Did this really outlaw air guns? I thought it was 1966 http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0535&zoom=90 __________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 67 Laws of 1954 Page 419 No person shall sell or purchase a pistol or revolver unless the purchaser has first secured a permit to purchase or carry a pistol or revolver. Approved June 24 1954 http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...le=178&zoom=90 __________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 29 Laws of 1951 page 135 Wholesalers of firearms and "dangerous instumentalities" have to register with the Superintendent Of Police. If the superintendent is not satisfied that the wholesaler can operate in a safe manner he can refuse to register the applicant. http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...le=175&zoom=90 _________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 95 Laws of 1927 Page 180-182 Machine Guns need to procure and possess a license to purchase. Apply at the Court of Common Pleas of the county where the applicant resides for a license to purchase have and possess a machine gun. Application shall be in writing and shall state the reasons for needing one. Application presented to the judge and to the sheriff, the judge at his discretion may issue a license. Exceptions for law enforcement.. http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0180&zoom=90 __________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 137 Laws of 1924 Page 305 - 308 >Concealed carry permit now needed. Establishes Record of Sale, Registry, signature of buyer and seller, duplicate needs to be delivered to chief of police, penalties include a high misdemeanor, 24 hour waiting period, no sales after 3 pm, presidents of banks and trust associations, loan institutions, can make application for (up to) 20 permits for the employees,agents, messengers and clerks. Does not apply to State Police or any motor vehicle inspector...Approved March 11 1924 http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...e=0305&zoom=90 _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Chapter 160 Laws of 1963 Page Page 878 So where did that "noxious thing" in the gun laws come about? Here is an act that establishes standards for those who commit an assault, robbery,larceny,burglary or breaking and entering when armed with machine gun,automatic rifle,revolver,pistol or other firearm or a gun,device or instrument from which may be fired or ejected any gas, vapor or other noxious thing by missle,pellet,bullet or otherwise. Then it goes on to list stuff like blackjack, slung shot (not sling shot!), dirk, dagger, sandbag and practically anything else whether toy or imitation. First conviction FIVE YEARS, Second Conviction Ten Years and so on. Approved December 7 1963. Notice it says slung shot, not sling shot http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bi...le=187&zoom=90 This completes the study on NJ Gun laws. It is my hope that some good comes out of this in some way. Good Luck

Even in states where the C&R license can be had with no restrictions on anything. There are some FFL dealers that will absolutely refuse the C&R even though the firearm is clearly a C&R item. They have a policy of a not accepting a C&R and require NICS/4473. And several of the FFL dealers are in Kentucky.

My best bet would be to visit some friends back East there and look it up there in NJ. For those that wish to look this up in NJ at a library. You want to search for Chapter 60 of the Laws of 1966 NJ, that would (should) have the original wording of the NJ Gun Control Act which included exceptions for open and concealed carry with out a license like I highlighted earlier. After the article appeared in the THR...There was a post from a gentleman who used to live in Sussex ,NJ in 1955 and he remembers his relatives open carrying with no problems and they had shot guns and rifles in their trucks. So it would appear that the passage of the 1966 law was the cutoff date for open carry in New Jersey . But had those two 'carry' exceptions put in and were taken out later on (Don't know when). The problem I been encountering is that the only reference that keeps coming up time and time again is the Burton vs Stills 1968 decision. What really opened the door to this was the online magazines to American Rifleman. Other than the Sills Act, there were proposals in other states and cities as well. There was talk of waiting periods, permits and such. "Strangulation By Law In New Jersey" by Ashley Halsey Jr. in the December 1966 American Rifleman can be found at http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000667&sid=183731&pid=20 I suggest all NJ gun owners read it through to get a snapshot on what was going on at the time in 1966 and who the players were. Some here might have access to the separate Legislative Alert for February 1966 which was referenced in the March American Rifleman. And can someone clarify if it was Tom Kean's administration is when the FID was needed to buy black powder guns? I thought it was in 1966. If you want to do earlier searches and do your own research as well try Google searches like this "American Rifleman March 1966" it will bring you to the "Cheaper Than Dirt" library with American Rifleman magazine (you might want to check out those mind boggling mail order ads for pistols and rifles toward the back of the book!). It is my hope that some of this information might be useful in some way. Good Luck

(Repost of the THR article I wrote) When did New Jersey become so anti-gun ? The background This is an update and expanded write up of an original post I did in the njgunforums.com about the history of the New Jersey Gun laws. I had some requests for more information at the Activist section here on THR. I figure that I would publish it here to get more people looking at it. My hope is to somehow understand why and how something like this happened in the first place with hope it never happens again elsewhere. More importantly, perhaps this research might help out our brothers and sisters in New Jersey to regain their second amendment rights. The law went into effect in 1966, two years before the National Gun Control Act of 1968 and ultimately affected many people, even those that live in other states. (To those who might be unfamiliar with New Jersey's gun laws). The 1966 law required law abiding citizens to apply for a permit at their police station, under go a background check, have their fingerprints taken, have their mental health history given out, character references as well as fees and long waits from 30 days or much longer to get the permit. The permit will let you buy long guns, BB guns and muzzle loaders. A separate handgun purchase permit is needed for each pistol including BB gun pistols and black powder pistols. Obtaining a carry permit for the average law abiding citizen is impossible. (UPDATE Jan 14 2012... I found a reference in a forum that alleges the black powder gun restrictions might have been later under Governor Tom Kean and may not have been in 1966. Perhaps one of the members here might want to clear that up, that would be great if you can include the date and Bill number is possible.) I have been studying gun laws for awhile, among the areas I been focusing on is on the New Jersey's gun laws. Among the reasons I focused on NJ was due to the unusual and very draconian nature of the law. It was called (among other things) The 'Sills Act of 1966'. Remember, this was two years before 1968 GCA and while gun enthusiasts in the rest of the country were still able to have mail order deliveries of rifles and pistols. New Jersey hoisted upon its citizens what amounted to a martial law approach to firearms laws. Information on the Sills Act is very difficult to come by. Part of the problem when researching this is that internet searches on the Sills Act, the 1966 NJ FID, NJ Gun Control act of 1966 only seems to only bring up the famous Burton versus Sills challenge and eventual decision of 1968. Further complicating the issue is when new laws are amended, they are replaced with the new wording. Finding the correct original wording even with the right original law number does not turn up the correct results. Looking up something under chapter 60 of the Laws of NJ 1966, yields nothing and the 2A prefix only brings up current 2C statutes. Very recently I found a great source that explained what was going on at the time. There was a mention of Legislative Alerts as early as February 1966 to NRA members that something was on the horizon in New Jersey. (I do not have the legislative updates but only references to it). A February 1966 alert could imply that the process for this new legislation was maybe even started earlier, perhaps late 1965. (Maybe one of our members here could shed more light on this?). The Sills Act of 1966, was named after Attorney General of NJ, Arthur J. Sills but actually seems to have started as NJ Assembly Bill 165 by Maurice V. Brady. March 1966 American Rifleman (What The Law Makers Are Doing) http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Libra...d=183754&pid=1 Assembly Bill 165 by Maurice V. Brady....."Prohibits the sale and purchase of firearms in certain cases, prescribes standards for dealer registration, obtaining permits and identification cards" April 1966 American Rifleman -Senate Bill 232 by Ned Parsekian (same as Assembly Bill 165) July 1966 American Rifleman (What The Law Makers Are Doing) Page 22 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Libra...=183755&pid=91 Assembly Bill 165 called the "Sills Bill" after Arthur Sills the AG of NJ was signed into law by New Jersey Governor Hughes on June 3 1966. The bill was passed 34-23 May 16. In the Senate 16-12. The reasons behind the passage of the law was a 'bipartisan effort' and due to a fatal shooting of a NJ trooper by an out of state ex-convict. The same disqualifications that appear today for the FID appeared then as well with the additional disqualification is if a person was a member of a 'subversive' group. Interestingly those under 18 could qualify for the card with permission of the guardian and passed a hunter safety course. There was a provision that specifically provides that a license was needed to carry a handgun openly or concealed or in a vehicle....shall not apply to members of DCM enrolled clubs in going to or from target practice, provided that a copy of the club charter with the members was filed with the Superintendent of State Police annually. Those who had a hunting license in going to and from hunting as well as those going to target practice was exempted from the carry law as well (according to the article). (This implies that before this law, open carry in New Jersey was tolerated in some areas. While a license was needed for conceal carry since about 1924. The exemption for target practice and hunting seem to imply that open and concealed carry was tolerated for these purposes after the act was in place. Open carry in NJ was mentioned in some of the posts I have run across in various forums in my research.) There also was another bill to counter Assembly Bill 165 with a more 'reasonable approach' it was written by the "Citizens Committee to Firearms Legislation" and that was Assembly Bill 789. And there was an identical bill in the Senate Bill 436. I do not have the details of this legislation. Already there was an effort to repeal the new firearms act, it was Assembly Bill 864. It was sponsored by Douglas E. Gimson and Joseph J. Maraziti. It was referred to the Senate Committee on law and Public Safety. September 1966 American Rifleman http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Libra...d=183754&pid=1 "The new firearms laws was going to take effect August 02. The Citizens for Firearms legislation and others filed suit against the law on July 22 and a temp restraining order on July 25 which postponed the effective date of the law to Aug. 5. The restraining order was lifted July 29 by application of the Attorney General. Argument for permanent injunction Aug 05 but extended to Aug 11." Second Amendment is a Public Convenience? August 11 1966 Judge Milton B. Conford rules that "the balance of public convenience is not for interference of enforcement of this statute" . The next day, August 12 1966, the law took effect. (This statement is the sole basis for overturning the stay! Where was the reason, citing prior legal decisions and/or cases that the judge could use for overturning the stay? At what point does the second amendment no longer applies to citizens of a State of the Union? Perhaps, because 1947 Constitutional Convention in NJ that left out the second amendment was the judge's basis for overturning the stay...because the second amendment was no longer in the state constitution?) In the December 1966 American Rifleman, there was a comprehensive write up on the NJ law. The article is called "Strangulation By Law In New Jersey" by Ashley Halsey Jr. If you have a chance to read the whole article, please do. Where was the opposition? According the article, "Citizens Committee for Firearms Legislation" headed by NRA Executive Committeeman Louis A. Benton and composed of hunters, shooters, collectors and article goes on to state that Council For The Citizens Committee (State Senator William Ozzard) will argue on December 15 1966 in Superior Court that the whole law should be thrown out because it violates the Second Amendment right to bear arms and interferes with interstate commerce. Believe it or not the ACLU was opposed to the law as well! A separate suit was filed in Freehold, the county chairman of the ACLU contended the law violates the Fifth Amendment by requiring applicants for firearms permits to state whether they belonged to so called subversive organizations. The suit was thrown out. Also opposing the new law were firearms dealers and they complained that their 'sales have slumped and some were laying off clerks'... (Since this was before the 1968 GCA comes this very telling statement)...."In addition, roadside stands had been set up in nearby states to serve New Jersey buyers". So NJ residents could just travel and bypass the FID law, that is of course until the 1968 GCA became law. There was yet another challenge to the law in Burton Vs Sills and in 1968 the law was allowed to stand. I don't know why this information wasn't more easily found on the internet. The law affected a lot of people, not just the residents of NJ. But also those who have visited the State or just passed through it. The law inspired Illinois to pass its FOID law as well as Massachusettes with its own FID law. It was two more years before the 1968 GCA would have been signed into law. Despite the opposition...the politicians won and the law abiding people lost. More research is needed to see if there were any attempts to challenge the Sills Act of 1966 after the unsucessful Burton vs Stills 1968 challenge. Another valid argument for repealing the Sills Act would have been when the 1968 Gun Control Act became law. Replacing the Sills Act and thus using the 1968 GCA as New Jersey's primary firearms law would have made the most logical choice at the time...and still does today. Hope for the future I wish the fine people of New Jersey good luck in regaining their second amendment rights. Besides the hope of HR 822 for the citizens of the good State, the old 'outdated' 1966 Sills Act should just be replaced with the 1968 GCA and in turn will restore gun rights to the law abiding gun owners through out that fine state. In addition it will save the State of NJ a ton of money in paperwork and shift law enforcement from behind the desks and back to the streets where they are needed the most. Replacing the Sills gun control Act of 1966 would finally bring New Jersey into the 21st Century and hopefully join the other free states out there. Midwest

I did a write up on THR on the history of the FID law, there was a lot of sneaky crap that was pulled back when all the FID was written in 1966. The way the judge ruled then, and the attorney general's actions makes me wonder if there something going on behind the scenes at the time. I did the write up to primarily to try to understand why it passed at all in 1966. I didn't mean to derail this thread, only to illustrate that the sentiment against guns by the officials, judges and politicians goes way back.

Another NJ judge called gun rights and the second amendment a "public convenience". How many of you know that when the 1966 FID law was challenged and stayed.. on August 11 1966 Judge Milton B. Conford rules that "the balance of public convenience is not for interference of enforcement of this statute" . The next day, August 12 1966, the law took effect. I'm still trying to figure out how an Attorney General of NJ in 1966 had the power to lift an restraining order, I thought judges could only do that. September 1966 American Rifleman http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000664&sid=183754&pid=1 "The new firearms laws was going to take effect August 02. The Citizens for Firearms legislation and others filed suit against the law on July 22 and a temp restraining order on July 25 which postponed the effective date of the law to Aug. 5. The restraining order was lifted July 29 by application of the Attorney General. Argument for permanent injunction Aug 05 but extended to Aug 11."

National Firearms Act of 1934 It regulates machine guns, silencers, destructive devices and concealable weapons like the pen gun and smooth bore pistols (not black powder). You CAN own these items in some states, you have to get fingerprinted, photographed, get the application signed off by the sheriff, send it off to the BATFE with a $200 fee for the tax stamp and wait anywhere from 3 to 6 months. There is a little more involved than that, but that is the basics. I do not own any NFA items, thought about it though. Here is an active forum that covers NFA questions. http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58

The pen gun pistol as pictured in the video , needs to be folded to shoot is not a NFA weapon like the video narration says. If it didn't need to be folded to shoot it would be an AOW (any other weapon) under the NFA and AOW is a $5 tax stamp. A silencer is an NFA item by itself that requires a $200 tax stamp and needs to go through the NFA process. The folding pen gun might be legal in NJ as it is not an NFA item but threads on the end of the pen gun might make it an issue in NJ. I believe the silencer is prohibited in NJ.

I have compiled more detailed information on the 1966 FID act, I plan a more comprehensive write up someday here or elsewhere. Information on the the Sills Act is very difficult to come by. I have found a good source that explained what was going on at the time. March 1966 American Rifleman (What The Law Makers Are Doing) http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000658&sid=183754&pid=1 Assembly Bill 165 by Maurice V. Brady....."Prohibits the sale and purchase of firearms in certain cases, prescribes standards for dealer registration, obtaining permits and identification cards" April 1966 American Rifleman -Senate Bill 232 by Ned Parsekian (same as Assembly Bill 165) July 1966 American Rifleman http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000662&sid=183755&pid=91 Assembly Bill 165 called the "Sills Bill" after Arthur Sills the AG of NJ was signed into law by Gov Hughes on June 3 1966. The bill was passed 34-23 May 16. In the Senate 16-12. The reason behind the passage of the law and the 'bipartisan effort' was due to a fatal shooting of a NJ trooper by an out of state ex-convict. Opposition to the bill was by shooters, hunters and firearms enthusiasts. The same disqualifications that appear today for the FID appeared then as well with the additional disqualification is if a person was a member of a 'subversive' group. Interestingly those under 18 could qualify for the card with permission of the guardian and passed a hunter safety course. September 1966 American Rifleman http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000664&sid=183754&pid=1 "The new firearms laws was going to take effect August 02. The Citizens for Firearms legislation and others filed suit against the law on July 22 and a temp restraining order on July 25 which postponed the effective date of the law to Aug. 5. The restraining order was lifted July 29 by application of the Attorney General. Argument for permanent injunction Aug 05 but extended to Aug 11." August 11 1966 Judge Milton B. Conford rules that "the balance of public convenience is not for interference of enforcement of this statute" . The next day, August 12 1966, the law took effect. In the December 1966 American Rifleman Page 17, there was a comprehensive write up on the NJ law. The article is called "Strangulation By Law In New Jersey" by Ashley Halsey Jr. If you have a chance to read the whole article, please do. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Library/BookPage.aspx?bid=FW0000667&sid=183731&pid=1 Where was the opposition? According the article, "Citizens Committee for Firearms Legislation" headed by NRA Executive Committeeman Louis A. Benton and composed of hunters, shooters, collectors and others, and by the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs Inc. The article goes on to state that Council For The Citizens Committee (State Senator William Ozzard) will argue on December 15 1966 in Superior Court that the whole law should be thrown out because it violates the Second Amendment right to bear arms and interferes with interstate commerce. The ACLU was opposed to the law as well! A separate suit was filed in Freehold, the county chairman of the ACLU contended the law violates the Fifth Amendment by requiring applicants for firearms permits to state whether they belonged to so called subversive organizations. The suit was thrown out. Also opposing the new law were firearms dealers and they complained that their 'sales have slumped and some were laying off clerks'... (Since this was before the 1968 GCA comes this very telling part)...."In addition, roadside stands had been set up in nearby states to serve New Jersey buyers". So NJ residents could just travel and bypass the FID law, that is until the 1968 GCA. There was yet another challenge to the law in Burton Vs Sills and in 1968 the law was allowed to stand. I don't know why this information wasn't more easily found on the internet. The law affected a lot of people, not just the residents of NJ. But also those who have visited the State or just passed through it. The law inspired Illinois to pass its FOID law as well as Massachusetts with its own FID law. It was two more years before the 1968 GCA would have been signed into law. Despite the opposition...the politicians won and the law abiding people lost. More research is needed to see if there were any attempts to challenge the Sills Act of 1966 after the unsuccessful Burton vs Stills challenge. I suppose one good argument for repealing the Sills Act would have been the passage of the 1968 Gun Control Act and replacing the Sills Act and using the 1968 GCA as New Jersey's primary firearms law.

Ongoing discussion about how the VICS (Virginia NICS) is understaffed and the Gov. wants to abolish the VICS and go to NICS http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=635083

What was the 'reason' for the Sills Act NJ GCA of 1966? I looked at the time period around the drafting and eventual passage of the NJ Sills Gun Control Act in 1966. I looked at the riots going on throughout the U.S. and especially the NJ and NY areas. I believe the biggest riot in NJ was in Newark in 1967 however this occurred after the Sills Act had already became law. http://en.wikipedia..../List_of_riots. I have deleted the riots from outside the U.S., highlighted the riots in NJ and NY and mainly focused between 1964 and 1968 because the Sills Act became law in 66 and the GCA in 68. As you can see, except for the Harlem (NY), Jersey City and Elizabeth riots in 1964 ..there were no riots in 1965 and 1966 in the NJ and NY area. Were the 1964 riots and the assassination of JFK in 1963 the 'reason' for the Sills Act in 1966? The biggest one, The Newark riots didn't even occur until 1967 after the Sills Act became law. It could appear that the 1964 riots and the assassination of JFK in 1963 might have been the reason. # 1964 - Harlem race riot, July 18–23 (New York City, United States) # 1964 - Rochester 1964 race riot, July 24–25 (Rochester, New York, United States) # 1964 - Jersey City 1964 race riot,[11] August 2–4 (Jersey City, New Jersey, United States) # 1964 - Elizabeth 1964 race riot,[11] August 11–13 (Elizabeth, New Jersey, United States) # 1964 - Dixmoor 1964 race riot[11] August 16–17 (Chicago, Illinois, United States) # 1964 - Philadelphia 1964 race riot August 28–30 # 1965 - Watts Riot, August 1965, (Los Angeles, California, United States) # 1966 - Division Street Riots, June 12–14 (Humboldt Park, Chicago, United States) # 1966 - Hough Riots, July 1966 (Cleveland, Ohio, United States) # 1966 - Compton's Cafeteria Riot, August 1966 (San Francisco, California, United States) # 1966 - Benton Harbor Riot, August–September 1966 (Benton Harbor, Michigan, United States) # 1966 - Atlanta riot of 1966, Sep. 6 (Atlanta, Georgia, United States) # 1966 - Sunset Strip curfew riots (Los Angeles, California, United States) # 1967 - Tampa Riots of 1967, June 1967 (Tampa, Florida, United States) # 1967 - Buffalo riot of 1967, June 27 (Buffalo, New York, United States) # 1967 - 1967 Newark riots, July 12–18, 1967 (Newark, New Jersey, United States) # 1967 - 1967 Plainfield riots, July 14–20, 1967 (Plainfield, New Jersey, United States) # 1967 - 12th Street Riot, July 23–27, 1967 (Detroit, Michigan, United States) # 1967 - Cairo riot, July 17 (Cairo, Illinois, United States) # 1968 - 1968 Washington, D.C. riots, April 1968 (Washington, D.C., United States) # 1968 - Baltimore riot of 1968, April 6–12 (Baltimore, Maryland, United States) # 1968 - Chicago riot of 1968 April 7–14 (Chicago, Illinois, United States) # 1968 - Kansas City riot of 1968, April 1968 (Kansas City, Missouri, United States) # 1968 - Louisville riots of 1968, May 27, (Louisville, Kentucky, United States) # 1968 - Glenville Shootout, (Cleveland, Ohio, United States) # 1968 - 1968 Democratic National Convention riot, August 1968, (Chicago, Illinois, Searching online, there seems to be a strange lack of information as to the exact wording of the law in 1966 (before the revisions), who supported and voted for it and who opposed it, what were the public comments at the time the bill was debated? What did gun stores, sporting goods stores and pro gun rights citizens do to oppose the law? Where was the NRA at the time? What was their position? While the 1968 GCA has been well covered, and there are many links to the Burton vs Sills 1968 opposition there seems to be a total absence of information and documentation of the exact details surrounding the drafting of, the voting on and the passage of The Sills Act of 1966. Why?

600 miles west of NJ

The FID and PPP system today in NJ is known as the "Sills Act" was said to have been drafted in 1965 and was signed into law 1966 , two years before the 1968 Gun Control Act. The "Sills Act" was challenged in 1968 in Burton vs Sills and allowed to stand. Illinois FOID (Firearms Owners ID) card was said to have been inspired by New Jersey's FID card. Massachusetts also adopted the FID system. Other than the Burton vs Stills court challenge, there is very little information on who voted for and against the law, what was the bills exact wordage at the time, what was the public sentiment at the time, public opposition to the law and more importantly why was it written up in the first place. The 1968 GCA came about after MLK and RFK assassinations. What event or events other than JFK assassination in 1963 that inspired the writing and eventual passage of the Sills Act in 1966 is unclear.

$3.39 in Kentucky, our prices have always been higher than NJ.

While Switzerland is talked about with regards to gun rights in Europe. There is also the Czech Republic....which would almost rival Switzerland and maybe better than some U.S. States! http://en.wikipedia...._Czech_Republic "Firearms in the Czech Republic are available to anybody without a criminal record and aged above 18 (or 21 for certain license categories). Self-defense is an acceptable justification to obtain a firearms license. The Czech gun laws also permits a citizen to carry a concealed weapon without having to specify a reason." "Among popular guns is Vz. 58. While the full automatic version requires exemption by police, which is rarely given (for example in case of extremely dangerous occupation like transporting large sums of money), the semi automatic version can be easily legally obtained." There are requirements for qualification and background checks and clearances. There is a fee as well as several tiers of license categories. There are hoops to jump through...but..

On a side note: Under Brady 2 there was a proposal for a National One handgun a month and it looks like the NJ One Gun a Month law looks a lot like the one proposed under Brady 2 back in 1994. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ EC. 301. PROHIBITION ON MULTIPLE HANDGUN TRANSFERS. (a) In General.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 204(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: "(y)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to-- "(A) receive transfer of more than 1 handgun during any 30-day period; "(B) transfer to another person more than 1 handgun during any 30-day period; or "© transfer a handgun to another person if the transferor knows or reasonably should know that such person has received transfer of another handgun during the previous 30-day period. "(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to-- "(A) a transfer of a handgun to a person who is licensed under section 923; "(B) a transfer of a handgun by inheritance; "© a transfer of a handgun if another handgun is given by the transferee to the transferor in exchange; or "(D) a transfer of a handgun that has been approved by the chief law enforcement officer of the State of residence of the transferee in accordance with regulations issued by the Secretary under subsection (b). "(3) As used in this subsection, the term 'chief law enforcement officer of the State' has the meaning stated in section 922(u)(7) of title 18, United States Code.". (b) Regulations.--Not later than 60 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall prescribe regulations that-- (1) provide procedures for a chief law enforcement officer to approve the transfer of more than 1 handgun during a 30-day period if-- (A) the transferee is a private security company licensed to do business in the State where the transfer takes place; or (B) the transferee is replacing a handgun that had been received and then stolen within the 30-day period; and (2) require a person who is licensed under section 923, before transferring a handgun, to receive a sworn statement from the transferee that the transferee has not received transfer of another handgun during the prior 30-day period. © Maintenance of Records.--Section 923(g)(3)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking all of the paragraph after "entity" and by inserting "other than Federal, State, or local law enforcement authorities.". (d) Penalty.--Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 101©, is amended by striking "or (u)" and inserting "(u), or (y)". (e) Effective Date.--Subsections (a) and (d) shall become effective on the date that is 30 days after the effective date of the regulations prescribed under subsection (b).

There was a proposal in Brady Bill 2 which proposed an arsenal license back in the 1990's and it was supposed to be nationwide. Occasionally the 'arsenal license' question does come up on forums. Luckily this piece of tripe never got traction. http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/brady2.html SEC. 204. FEDERAL ARSENAL LICENSE. (a) Offense.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 203(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: "(x) It shall be unlawful for a person to possess more than 20 firearms or more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition unless the person-- "(1) is a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer; or "(2) has been issued an arsenal license pursuant to section 923(m).". "(iii) paid an arsenal license fee of $300 for a 3-year license period; and "(B) the Secretary has determined that the information in the application is accurate, based in part upon name- and fingerprint-based research in all available Federal, State, and local recordkeeping

I might have mentioned that I have some friends back in NJ. I recall them saying that some of their friends and relatives moved out of NJ over the years. Among the states mentioned included Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Arizona.

Also what freejersey said "Ammo and guns but, I'm going to do that regardless of who wins. "

It may not seem a lot of money for the KY CCDW permit, the permit is $60 and then there is the required training course which costs $80. It is like an all day 8 hour course which includes a film or two, written and range live fire range test as I understand it. Even after you pass then you have to wait until you receive the certificate in the mail and that takes upward of a month. Then you go to the sheriff with the document and go through the process and then get the permit. The reason why (besides the money factor) I have not got the permit. There was never a real compelling need to get a CCW. We can already carry loaded in the vehicle in the glove compartment and center console or anywhere in the vehicle that has a compartment installed by the vehicle manufacturer ...and open carry if we wanted. But I normally don't open carry unless it is my own property out in the country. If we carry in our car (like I mentioned) without the permit it is fine in KY, but illegal in Ohio and Indiana...thus getting a permit is a good reason as KY has reciprocity with nearby Ohio and Indiana and a lot of states. If anyone ever wanted some good spots for hunting, consider Kentucky. You can get five or six amongst yourselves to pitch in and buy some land for next to nothing. It is possible to get more than 50 acres in the country with a trailer for 100K or less...with taxes 1K more or less per year...

There are some states that do waive the NICS check if one has a CCW, however the purchaser still has to fill out the 4473. My state, Kentucky is one of those states. However since I do not have the CCDW (Conceal Carry Deadly Weapons) permit, I still must go through NICS and the 4473. I don't have the extra cash now to pay for the training course requirement and for the fee for the CCW...maybe next year. I have read on other sites that some FFL's still require the NICS check even though the CCW permit is supposed to satisfy BATF NICS requirements. So even in those states, some FFL's might still require it. EDIT> Here is the list of states that allow a CCW permit instead of the NICS. http://www.atf.gov/p...ermit_chart.pdf Alaska, Arizona,Arkansas,California* (Entertainment Firearms only),Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississipi, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Wyoming, **Nebraska - Handgun purchase cerificates The list is from "State Laws and Published Ordinances-Firearms 29th Edition 2008", it might have been updated since ...