High Exposure

In my experience something designed to do everything is rarely great at anything, so I am not expecting much. Hopefully Sig cracked the code this time. It has to be better than the P250 abortion....

I am not posting pics of me to satisfy your curiosity. Sorry. Believe me or not, don't care. Just because you can't imagine it doesn't make it not so. Don't mean to be rude either. BUG: G27 on Ankle or Kahr PM9 on ankle or in a pocket or very rarely a Ruger LCP in a pocket Light: FourSevens Quark clipped to front left pocket Pistol: G35/22/23 in DeSantis Scorpion or CompTac Minotaur IWB at 4:00-4:30 Mag: One 15 round Glock .40 S&W mag at 9:00 in CompTac mag pouch As I said previously, no that's not all the time, but it IS most of the time. Sometimes it's just the Kahr AIWB, 2 Kahr mags at 9:00 and the LCP in a pocket. Sometimes the G35/22/23 is in a Raven with X300U. It is a system, an "ensemble", that is adaptable to what I am wearing and what I am doing.

They are Gen 1 and they gave me lots of problems - the PMAGS didn't, so I stayed with them. Don't see a need to go back to a mag that gave me a headache, even a new generation. Meh... If the new ones are working maybe I will check out the latest ones.....

I am not spinning anything. I could walk up to you with my normal day to day carry - G35/22/23, a spare mag, BUG, and flashlight and shake your hand and you would never know I was carrying any of it - Summer or winter. Doesn't look like I am going to a comp. There is no scowling involved, no hand on my gun, no scrutinizing everyone I see. Just a guy walking down the street like everyone else. Wearing a vest would be another story. Hard to conceal, unnatural movements, constant adjusting, you will pick that out a mile away. That's impractical, and defeats the Concealed part of CCW. This whole "vest situation" that you brought up is really a red herring in the discussion we are having. Wearing a vest wile CCWing is not considered a normal practice by anyone I know. Deciding to carry the gun I shoot the best on me instead of one I shoot less well is a completely practical decision that many people make every day, deciding to wear a vest in case I get shot is a horse of a different color entirely. Why stop at the vest, why not a helmet? And ear-pro? Your right, a line is drawn at some point or we would all build bunkers and wait for "the big one". We all do it. Never denied that. There is a reasonableness to where the line is drawn that is based on common accepted practices, concealability, practicality, conceivable and realistic threats, and quality of life. As you approach the threshold where these criteria and qualities are drastically impacted then certain decisions have to be made. The impact of deciding to carry a G23 instead of a G27 (either way you are wearing a gun) is miniscule - we are talking ounces and inches here - compared to the impact of wearing a vest or not. Our idea of the minimal accpetable gear we carry is different. Again, that's fine, I get it, not saying you or I are right or wrong, just that what you do and what you think is different from what I do and what I think.

I am not missing the point, I am discussing the point. The choices you or I make don't have to be black or white. You could have one blaster that checks all the boxes for you. Or you could not care a bit and have no regrets about what you carry and how you carry it regardless of your abilities with it. Hell, you could choose what you carry every day by throwing darts at a board. I am not saying anyone's choice is wrong or mine is more right. I am just trying to get folks to think about the choices they make and why they make them. I have noticed that a lot of people start carrying a gun just to carry a gun. They don't have the mindset (I am not talking about maturity or anything like that but the mindset needed to prevail in a DPF encounter - the "Mean Gene" and a tactical mindset) for it in the beginning. As time goes by and nothing bad happens, complacency sets in. Guns get smaller, calibers get lighter, the reload gets ditched, situational awareness goes down and carrying becomes a thoughtless habit instead if a conscious choice for self defense. "Ostrich syndrome" starts to replace critical thinking when making decisions and forward thinking gives way a reliance on personal history and gun shop dogma - "It didn't happen before so it won't happen in the future" "Chances are slim" "It's a good neighborhood" "I won't really need it, it's just in case" "It's good enough" "Most of the time all you need to do is show it and the bad guy runs away". Again, not saying this is anyone in particular, none of this is personal, it is just an observation I have noticed over the last 10 years or so. I have found that healthy discussion and getting people to think about what they are doing is the best way to combat this issue. I know it keeps me from being complacent, and make me constantly evaluate my gear, carry style, training methods and mindset. I know you and I have different criteria for carrying, different motivations for being prepared, and different ideas on how to go about doing it the best way for each of us. No, I don't wear a vest when I am off. And again, that is apples to baseballs. The decision to carry a gun has already been made. The commitment to the concessions to successfully CCW has been settled in our minds and reconciled as acceptable to ourselves, our families and the public (even if they don't know we are carrying). Either way you are carrying a gun, the choice now is simply which gun. The decision to wear a vest is a completely different set of circumstances. The difference in "comfort" between wearing a vest and not wearing a vest is not even close to choosing between carrying a G27 and a G23/22. How much difference is it really to carry a G22/23 instead of a G27? A few ounces and a little bulk. For an advantage in a gunfight, I will take that trade. Carrying a larger gun that I feel I am a better shooter with won't make my friends or family think I am weird and it won't scare the sheeple like wearing a vest would.

Interesting article... Personally, I don't find what was reported to be the case but I don't do a lot of bench testing with my pistols, and I have never shot a 2.5" group at 25 yards with any pistol.... On the clock I am faster and more accurate - shooting tighter rapid fire groups - with my full size gun than my sub-compact from the distances I train at, typically 0-25 yards (sometimes 50-100). I would be curious as to what the results would be if you fired a full size and a sub-compact in a "fighting pistol" type class vs a competition where 1-2 rounds on target does it for you. I would like to see someone try a FAST drill, El Pres, and a Bill Drill with a full size and a sub-compact and compare times and scores/hits. Whoops, typo. Sometimes typing on iPhones suck - I edited my original. I get the feeling that you are avoiding my question by purposefully going outside the intended bounds. You know what I was asking... You chose to answer otherwise. Ok. Cool.... Anyway, I agree. Handguns suck, all pistol calibers stink and carbines are the way to go if it gets loud. If I knew I was getting into a gunfight I would prefer a carbine to a pistol any day of the week. Then again, I would also prefer to stay home, or run away, or make sure all my friends were there with their carbines as well.... But as you and I both stated, walking around 24/7 with a carbine slung to our chests carries with it it's own set of difficulties. For the sake of our daily lives we are reduced to carrying a handgun when we leave the house for a number of myriad reasons that we all know and accept. The handgun provides a general sense of protection from reasonable and predictable threats. We can "what if?" all day, some are realistic some aren't. Some we can prepare for, some we realistically can't. So be it - we understand the risks and limitations of our gear choices and how they integrate with our daily life and drive on. So, we choose to be armed with a less capable weapon to provide for our self defense needs. The questions we need to ask are: Do we choose the most capable of the inferior choices or the one that is easiest for us to carry? Is that decision based on "comfort" or a realistic assessment of our skills, environment, and possible threats? How much "inconvenience" are we willing to tolerate to feel "comforted" by our choice in carry peice? The exaggerated "scenarios" don't help anyone and detract from the discussion. If you can't see the difference in choosing a G35 vs a G27 for CCW (basically 2 fairly similar choices with relatively little difference in personal convenience and preparedness) and deciding to carry a handgun vs. jocking up in full kit to go out in case you get stuck in the middle of the Hollywood Bank Robbery Shootout, I don't know what to tell you... One is a realistic choice, and one is not; one is practical consideration and the other is ridiculous speculation. Personally, carrying a full size gun, spare mag, BUG and flashlight isn't a hassle for me. It is comforting as well as comfortable. Are there times where the dress code or some other factor limits me to a smaller gun and no BUG? Sure, but that us an exception to the norm. I don't strive for mediocrity. If I know I am better with one tool over another, I will carry what I am best with. I want every advantage I can get my hands on in a gunfight. To do that takes some forethought because when the fight stars, I have only what I brought with me - in my mind and on my person. I want it to be an unfair fight in my favor. I don't want to just survive a deadly force encounter, I will win, decisively. If necessary and it comes to the use of DPF I will burn the other guy(s) to the ground so there is no question that me and mine are safe.

I don't know anyone who keeps the lids for PMAGS. I throw them away as soon as I get them.... Hard to keep loaded mags in pouches with the lids on As far as Lancer mags, I have half a dozen of them. They don't work very well, metal inserts or not.... Just sayin'

It's not a question of of the gun will function. We are all smart enough to carry a proven weapon. Right, that's why we all carry a gun. And that's why you carry a sub-compact gun. Just to pick nits and be my usual devil's advocate, what are "self defense distances"? I have never seen you shoot but I know very few people who are as fast and accurate with a G26/27 as a G17/22. I am curious though, in all seriousness: If you were going to get in an unavoidable gunfight right now and could choose any one of your handguns to defend yourself which would you choose? While I may not support your choice as my personal selection for carry, at the end of the day, if you are comfortable (physically and mentally) carrying that weapon than rock on. Carry it with confidence. I choose to go another way I carry a full size gun to defend myself and find it more capable. And at all distances I am demonstrably more proficient with a G22 than a G27 in both speed and accuracy. Regardless it is a good discussion and hopefully gets everyone thinking. Happy New Year

Shhhhhh.... You are ruining a perfectly good fantasy with your logic and facts.

Personally, carrying a full size gun is a terrific idea. I carry a full size gun (G35/22/23) in shorts and a t-shirt with no issues, with a reload and a BUG. All of the guys I know that carry all the time (SWAT bros and fellow Cops) do the same - full size guns. These are serious guys that know they want the best possible tool for the job at hand and are willing to adapt to be able to carry it. Unfortunately you can't walk around with a slung long gun very easily, so the next best thing is indicated. You can carry plenty concealed without looking like you joined a cult, carrying a shoulder bag, or compromising effectiveness; especially when it's the matter of an overall ensemble vs. just the equipment and its' carriers. It can be done and it isn't hard. A small concession to your wardrobe and smart selection in holster and belt and you are set. Seriously, why not carry the gun you shoot the best? You are carrying it because you may need it. If you need it you need to be better than the proverbial "other guy". Why purposefully handicap yourself by carrying a less capable gun or one you perform at a lower level with? Ask yourself this: If you knew you were going to get in a gunfight in ten minutes no matter what you did, and had every pistol you owned laid out before you and could choose one to defend yourself, which would you pick? A sub-compact or a full size pistol - because that is essentially what you are doing every time you throw your blaster on your belt and walk out the door. If you want to carry a smaller, lighter, less capable gun because it is "easier" or "more comfortable" or because it is "just in case" or " I probably won't need this today" that's fine. Just be honest about it. It's a mindset issue not a hardware/equipment issue.

I just ordered one of the Stealth Gray MOE-K grips from Primary Arms a couple of days ago. I hope they do the handguards and stocks soon.

Yeah, it can happen with any holster, but it seems to happen a lot more often (or at least we hear about it a lot more) with the SLURPA. In my line of work we call that a clue. Training is all fine and good, and it helps fight the psychological and physiological effects of a critical incident. It does not erase or eliminate them. You can count in a 50% reduction in skill during a gunfight. That is includes accuracy, manipulations, kinesthetics, and dexterity. You say it won't happen to you but it has happened to plenty of others. What makes you special? (Not intended as a jab, just a rhetorical question to make you think). The USMC has forbidden their use for their service members, reputable firearms trainers (EAG, CSAT, VTAC) have forbidden them in their classes - these decisions didn't occur in a vacuum. They are based on observations and results from real world issues that have occurred. You can believe you won't put your finger on the trigger, but under stress you can't guarantee it. Why not stack the deck in your favor? Why be married to a $30 peice of plastic that even offers the opportunity to decrease you capability in a gunfight when you don't have to?

Do you have a source for this? Plastic doesn't tend to deform that way in my experience, where the cheap crappy steel in GI mags does. I am curious for as source as well as that claim is directly counter to my experiences with PMags. This was the case however with the old Thermold mags I still see every now and again. Keep in mind, not all plastics (or mags) are created equal. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it isn't a rampant issue with PMags. Keep in mind that magazines are a wear item. They have a service life after which they become problematic and need to be discarded after given some "hammer therapy". I posted the below quote in this thread. Pertinent portions have been bolded: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/60587-pmag-gen-m3-wont-insert-with-breech-closed-mp-15-sport/page-2?hl=%2Bpmags+%2Bspread#entry776421 I oversee 100s of 30 round Pmags, ARC mags and GI mags loaded and used for training every year. I have seen something similar to that photo exactly one time. It happened when a shooter was using stripper clips to load and used a table instead of his thumb to feed from the clip into the mag. That mag also looks like it has too many rounds in it... ETA: OK. That picture above is of a reported stored mag showing signs of feed lip spread. After reading this I went to my call out bag and grabbed three loaded mags out of my "Oh Sh!t" bag where I keep extra mags, batteries, snacks, etc... These 3 mags were issued to me after being fired to test function, maybe 90 rounds through each, then loaded and stored for a rainy day in 2008. They show no signs of spread.

Don't mind john, he's a little "touched"

My issue isn't with shooting yourself - although that is a concern, it can - and does - happen regardless of holster. It does happen more with a SLURPA than other types, and the placement of the trigger finger to hit the release is poorly thought out. And you can say "I always do it right in training" or "I haven't shot myself yet" all you want, but.....When your heart rate hits 180bpm and your vision narrows and time slows down, you are going to get on that trigger early. Look at all the shooting where the first few rounds hit the ground and/or the the legs of the perp before settling on center mass. Do you think that is how the shooters were trained? Do you think they practiced that? Nope, that is fear overriding their training and the shooter rushing to get his finger on the trigger and start shooting. My big SLURPA issue is with the actual retention mechanism and the overall shoddy construction of the holster. The PD for the town live in requires SLURPA holsters for their S&W M&P 45s. I have seen many failures where the holster just broke. The belt attachment breaks, the finger release breaks, the holster body cracks... Some of this issues - especially the release mechanism failures - required the holster to be literally cut off the pistol. Some guys are now carrying tin snips in their squad car. The majority of these failures have occurred under general use as well - hitting a filing cabinet as you are walking by, getting caught in a seat belt, leaning against a wall. Some have broken with the user having no idea how it happened and couldn't trace the issue back to any specific point of damage. The other concern isn't with breakage per se, but with the release mechanism getting jammed with snow, mud, ice, gravel, sand, dirt, leaves, etc.... And again not being able to draw. Bad juju. I have seen it happen in training plenty of times. I have it heard of it happening operationally a few. The chance that it could happen at all is scary enough to me to say no thanks. I have also seen demonstrations where someone can snatch your whole rig, blaster and holster, right off your belt with minimal effort by twisting and snapping the belt attachment/paddle. It is almost instantaneous and most weapon retention techniques actually assist the grabber snatch your shit. There are other holsters out there that are better quality, similar price range, and without these issues. Yes, I understand that anything can fail, and will fail at the worst possible time. I get that. But with the record these things have, the known examples and issues, it boggles my mind why someone would actually buy one on purpose. It is even more mind bending when people are shown the evidence of what can happen and they shrug it off with "mine has always been fine" or "it has been working fine so far" and then defend the reputation of this crappy holster as if it was their child.... Yeah, OK I got it. Everything in life is peaches and cream...until it isn't. Then what? Why train to use inferior life saving equipment?

That's the movie/Hollywood bullshit. Don't do that. Don't count on the sound of you making your guns ready causing a bad guy to "shit his pants and haul ass". Don't count on them to do anything - the only variable you can control is what you do. Have a plan in place that puts you and your family in a position of advantage in the event of a burglary/home intruder situation. The bad guys should have no clue you are aware of them in your home until you have eyes on them and are aimed in.

I would stick with OC stream/spray in the 3/4oz size for the home. Gel/foam works OK unless the bad guy is wearing glasses, then the spray works better. The gel/foam also makes it easier for your target to wipe it off and throw it back at you.... Ask me how I know... If you need to use more than 3/4oz, it is time to move on to use something else. Those big canisters are for riot situations and large crowds. http://www.defense-technology.com/pdfs/resources/First%20Aid%20and%20Decontamination%20Guidelines.pdf Read and compare the above guidelines for decontamination and first aid of CS/CN and OC. Then decided which you would rather use in your home. Remember, you still have to live there after you open a can of "Satan's Piss" on someone. Also, find out what the cops in your area carry, Mace (CN) or OC. That may be a clue as well to what works better. (hint: I bet it is OC ) If you don't have a gas mask to use, you may not want to be spraying CS/CN around your home. In addition to the bad guy, you will be affected, as well as any other family members, pets, first responders - Police, Fire, EMT, etc... The presence of CS/CN may delay that response.

Lies and balderdash. Cycles of compression and relaxation is what wear springs out, not compression over time. As long as you don't bend the spring past it's elastic limits, the springs in a semi auto will be fine. I have AR mags that have been loaded for a few years that are fine. I have also seen 8 M3 "Greasegun" mags that were loaded during Vietnam and forgotten about in a PD armory room fire fine at a class in 2007. Load your mags all the way up and don't worry about it. No need to download, or "relax" the springs to give them a chance to "breathe". In fact downloading and loading them everyday will actually wear them out faster.

Bladetech makes nice holsters for RMR equipped pistols, and check out Dale Fricke holsters. He makes nice concealment holsters for RMR pistols. I have also used a Raven Concealment, a Comp Tac Minatour, and a DeSantis Scorpion to carry my RMR Glock, but I had to cut a tiny notch in the sweat guard on each of them. You can also mod Safariland SLS holsters like the 6004 with a Dremel or some tin snips pretty easily. I did this for a G35 w/RMR as a spare holster (I primarily use the 6354DO). The ALS holster are mod-able but a lot harder to get right. If you want to go the 6354DO route they are able to be adjusted to hold an M&P. Let me know and I will try to get a "how to" for you.

I wouldn't use a SLURPA on a bet. In fact I got one for free a few years back and I threw it out.

My general shooting goals remain the same: I want to be a better shooter tomorrow than I was yesterday. Specifically, I want to take more classes this year: specifically EAG Shoot house and FOF, attend DARC, and a get in a PMac class or two... Also I want to shoot in at least one comp a month. Gear wise I need a bigger safe and I want to build a workshop in the new house (should be closing in a week!) What certification do you need for CQB?

You are right... The time to think about the criminal or civil suit that will surely follow is not during the incident. The time to think about what you will do on one of the worst days of your life and how your decisions will affect you and your family financially, emotionally, and privately is before it happens, just as we are doing now. That way, when something does happen, you are prepared to defend yourself and your loved ones properly, and with the least amount of negative consequences as possible. If you had a home invader come into your house and catch you in your garage/storage shed/work room where you kept the wasp spray regularly, like a "reasonable person" - important phrase there when it comes to use of force - and then it was used, that's one thing. Keeping wasp spray next to your bed or near the front door, specifically to be used as a weapon, that's something else entirely. Yes, DPF is DPF in defense of your life or that if a loved one. In the heat of the moment you grab what's available - frying pan, knife, rolling pin, book, flashlight, etc... and do what you have to do. Staging neurotoxins around your house is different than grabbing a steak knife as you are being assaulted. We live in one of the most, if not the most, litigious state in the nation. We regularly shake our heads at what folks successfully sue for and are the amount of money they awarded. Sue because you didn't know your coffee was hot? Get millions. Sue because you got bit by a dog when you were breaking into someones house? Hundreds of thousands. All it takes is one scumbag attorney to say "I'll take that case" and you are in for years of pain and bankrupting lawyer fees - even if you are acquited. Why on God's green Earth would you PLAN to do something that you know is going to cause you more trouble in the long run, when you can plan to do it the right way and save yourself some serious heartache down the road?

So you are going to lie to investigators during a criminal investigation where you are the victim?

Actually, you are probably screwing yourself when it comes time for the civil case but hey, do what you want

Expect to feel the effects yourself from any gas/aerosol you use, they are indiscriminate. I have never used OC and not been just as bad off as the guy or girl I sprayed. Luckily, OC doesn't effect me as bad as most folks. I think it is because I love to eat a lot of really spicy food... When using CS/CN we always use gas masks. That stuff is wicked and much harder to fight through the effects of. Also keep in mind the decontamination procedures, this is your home after all. For OC indoors it's not so bad, but still pretty intensive. For CS/CN indoors it becomes a nightmare.