High Exposure

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/55956-did-anyone-else-see-this/

I don't know of any agency that issues these pistols in NJ, and I have never heard of them being issued to any Law Enforcement Agencies in the US. But, that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. I personally know of only one LEO in that carries an FNP in .357sig as an off duty weapon. I know the FNX 45 was designed to compete for some SOCOM or JSOC pistol program, but I believe the test/request was cancelled before they actually chose a winner.

Police reported that no shots were fired during the "incident" (which I interpret as the time the police were involved), not that there were no shots fired at all. Neighbors reported hearing gunshots earlier in the evening, that is what prompted the Police response. http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/05/authorities_one_in_custody_after_hazlet_standoff.html As far as why SWAT - just look around the threads in this forum alone from the past few days. In one thread regarding an armed bad guy/hostage situation it's "Cops need more training to handle that situation." and "Not all Cops should have guns" Now when there is another armed guy/possible hostage situation it is "Why is SWAT needed for this?" Make up your minds. Cops respond to calls for service as they are reported by witnesses and complainants. They tailor their responses based on the information they have before the call is over. Not after the investigation is complete and a supervisor checks off on their reports. In NY the other day a Patrol Officer responded to a possible home intruder. That call turned into a Hostage Situation and unfortunately a civilian lost their life. This call reportedly came in as shots fired. The Cops played it cautiously, they had time as the situation turned static so they called in the guys with the training in the event this turned into something more. SWAT and Negotiators rolled in and the situation ended with no one getting hurt. Also, I don't know of many negotiators that will respond to a barricaded person call without a tactical team in support. I know we don't let out "Talkers" do anything without shooters (less lethal and lethal force options) nearby. I thought you knew. I figured you were there the way you were second guessing what happened and the Police response. I guess we will have to wait and see before jumping to conclusions and crying foul... Edited to reflect PeteF's edited post

Who labeled this an active shooter? How do you think this should have been handled? Based on the reports that are currently available the subject that was arrested because he commited numerous crimes, specifically by threatening his family with a firearm during a domestic violence incident and possibly firing rounds off. If not handled by the men trained to respond to Active Shooter/Barricaded Person/Hostage Rescue who should have handled it? Police State? Seriously?

Photos at the link http://holmdel-hazlet.patch.com/articles/law-enforcement-converge-on-west-keansburg-neighborhood

Best of luck with it OD. Reading your posts, you seem to flip guns quite often in your quest for the perfect Florida carry peice. If you ever decide to part with it, give me a holler. I can't find one up here to, quite literally, save my life. Cheers!

That's not what he said. He said don't rely on the sound of a shotgun racking to scare a certified bad guy away. While a Condition 4 (clear safe and empty) shotgun is useless for HD, storing a Condition 1 (full mag tube, 1 in the chamber, cocked, safety on) shotgun may not be indicated either. Keep the shotgun in Condition 3 (full mag tube, empty chamber) while stored - Cops call this "Cruiser Ready" as that is how it rides in the racks in the radio car. When something goes bump in the night, grab the shotgun and rack it right then. Don't wait to rack it so the intruder will hear and soil his pants in an effort to get away. The only thing an unauthorized person in your home should hear before you defend yourself is a verbal warning if you feel it is warranted. The only thing they should see is your white light for target ID and a muzzle. As far as the incident in Tom River, there were a lot of other variables and really bad decisions that led to that tragedy. This is good advice - only I don't like the fingerprint safes. They don't always work as advertised with wet or bloody fingers. In the end, I agree with Vlad. An AR will serve you much better in a HD role than any shotgun. While I have a few shotguns, an AR with sling, white light and Aimpoint, is what lives in the safe in my bedroom.

Nice review. This gun is on my short list as a BUG. I shot it while at S&W Armorer School on Springfield a few years ago. It was a little stout with the .357 but manageable. The .38s were fine. Maks, the FO front sight is standard on this particular model.

I will only check have HQ check an abstract for suspended drivers (DL or Reg) so I can tell them why they are suspended and when the suspension took place. Other than that I don't care all that much. There are some exceptions to this rule but that's what I generally do. I don't have a cite either, but in my experience that is correct. It may be even a little higher - like 1/3rd.

I was on overnights for ten years, finally made day shift and got promoted six month later... Back to mids I go..... FML Anyway, back to Sons of Dumb! Now I get it!

Ah, gotcha! I hate that because I work midnights I can't sleep at night anymore and end up watching this crap....

^^ This. Those 10-15 minutes of flashing lights on the side of the road behind another car whise driver looks absolutely miserable and embarrassed seems to work a lot better at slowing everyone down than just sitting out there for all to see. Although that is something I do when writing a report on my MDT. When I want to catch someone breaking a MV Law, I hide. Traffic enforcement is my least favorite part of the job, but some guys love it. It does result in some great arrests sometimes though. Most of my better hooks for guns and/or drugs have resulted from an initial traffic stop. Every agency has the guy that eschews discretion, hammers everyone and would scratch one out on his own Mother, and every agency has the guy that writes no one. Most guys fall in the middle and do their jobs. I rarely ever write anyone a speeding ticket (I have been known to have a heavy foot myself on occasion) and most people get breaks, if not on the side of the road, then when they came to court. I could really care less if I stop you and you have a Radar Detector or not. In actuality, more often than not most people talk themselves into a ticket. I follow the 4Es of traffic enforcement as I was taught in the academy. To me it is the only fair way to do it: Emergency - is the person I stopped having a legitimate emergency that would cause them to break the traffic laws? Engineering/Environment - is it a problem with the physical environment that caused the violation? Bad or missing signage, bad road design (25mph on a 4 lane rd going downhill), car problem that they did not know about? Education - is the mere stop alone enough for the driver to get the message that they messed up? Have they ever received a warning or summons for this infraction in the past? Did they even know that what they did was illegal? Enforcement - if the other three Es don't apply and the only way to make the point is to issue a summons, that's what they get. Usually, this is where people talk themselves into a ticket. If they aren't going to accept the Education, then they get written. I am also more likely to use the Enforcement option if what the driver did put other motorists/the public in danger.

Wait, isn't that a Beretta 92FS?

My comments above were not a personal attack and I am sorry if it came off that way. This is not about you but you are responsible for what you post. I am nothing on this board but a member, and a relatively new one at that, but here's what this comes down to IMO. This isn't just a discussion. A member on this board is asking for advice regarding a weapon used for HD. That means it is life saving equipment dedicated to be used in the defense of his life or the lives of his loved ones. Based on your own statements you have no frame of reference to comment on this topic and the info you provided is flat wrong. Bead vs RDS vs Ghost Ring vs Rifle sight on a shotgun you can argue is an opinion one way or the other. My opinion is a RDS on a shotgun is extremely useful and a force multiplier that may just give you the speed and accuracy you need to prevail. Others disagree (but haven't provided any background or logical reasoning behind their opinion). Great. Got it. But advocating shooting from the hip in a deadly force encounter is borderline negligent. Again, this isn't personal, but if you don't want to get called out on bullshit you posted, don't post bullshit. Consider it mentoring. Mods, I apologize if you feel I am stepping over the line.

Ha! At the end of the MG34 episode when Kris walked into the other guy's (Vince?) shop he had the Magpul sticker on the door upside down.

I don't know about blued, but Vang Comp makes the best Mag Extensions out there followed closely by Wilson Combat IMO.

With the astounding amount of real world knowledge out there regarding gunfighting tactics, techniques, procedures and equipment, the fact that people still think this way after 12 years of war astounds me. Anyone who thinks that a RDS on a long gun is a waste has not done research into modern gunfight TTPs and E and has not examined any of the post shooting reports that are available. They have also not trained with a firearm equipped with a quality and reliable RDS and I can also guarantee that they have never pointed a firearm at another person in less than ideal conditions and had wished for every advantage possible. Have you ever put a RDS on a shotgun (or any gun) and timed yourself? Have you ever actually measured the difference in speed and accuracy between bead/rifle/ghost ring/RDS? Try it. You may be surprised. Why do you think that competition shooters that use RDS on their firearms are placed in their own class? Because they are slower and the competitiors shooting iron sights have an unfair advantage? Look at the scores from any of the Steel Challenge Matches in Old Bridge. You can compare the scores yourself. The same shooter, shooting the same target array, with a similar caliber gun both with and without a red dot sight. The RDS runs are consistently faster by a significant margin. As far as an optic failing, I have seen more broken beads on in service working shotguns than failed quality optics. If you buy quality (Aimpont) then there is no issue. All of my long guns (except my MP5, which has an Insight MRDS and 1 AR with an ACOG) have RDS (Aimpoints) and for cause. Aiming is never pointless and regardless of the platform is the only way to assure effective hits. Believe it or not, a shotgun is not a magic wand that strikes fear into the hearts of men when racked and it is not a point and shoot weapon. I have seen a number of men live after being shot with a 12g and 1 even literally walk away. I have seen people miss targets entirely from 10 yards with a shotgun on a perfect day at the range without the added stress of fear and adrenaline you will have during a critical incident. As far as HD "distances" with a shotgun, the closer you are the less spread you get. Following that logic, you would have to be more precise with a shotgun the closer you are. I am sorry but, anyone who proclaims that shooting from the hip is the way to go in CQB/CQC needs to stop learning about gunfighting by watching the A-Team. Regarding your assertation that "aiming" takes too long or is a waste of time is irrelevant - its not getting the shot off that counts, it is getting effective hits. If you aim you have a much better chance of hitting something vital and a slow hit is better than a fast miss any time. In any event, aiming is most definitely not slower. I guarantee that a trained shooter is faster and more accurate (getting effective hits) aiming than you are shooting from the hip, regardless of the platform, all day long. You keep stating this but you have yet to answer any of my questions or offered a compelling argument or evidence to support your position.

Excellent. Thanks for the clarification.

If this is a topic that interests you, the books "On Killing" and "On Combat", both by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman are must reads. And if you can, attend one of his "Bulletproof Mind" seminars. In addition to the Sheep/Sheepdog/Wolf analogy his breakdown of the psychology of "killing" in self defense and the physiological process your body conducts to protect you are astounding. Understanding these psychological and physiological processes has also been shown to help prevent PTSD and PTSD-like symptoms in those who have had to take a life in self defense or the defense of others. ETA: We were having a discussion about this topic a few days ago. We were talking about the Boston bombings and how people seemed to react, or not, after the blasts. A colleague from another agency stated the following and it stuck with me. I thought it was pretty profound and I wanted to share it.

LE Pro Staff Daryl Bolke in this thread - http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?6413-Aimpoint-Recommendations: Daryl's partner Wayne Dobbs (they own Hardwired tactical shooting/HiTS) was the instructor. It has nothing to do with Aimpont vs EoTurd (other than Aimponts use an LED end the Eos use a laser) It has to do with the way LEDs use power. My research since hearing this (I was skeptical as well) leads me to believe that this is a true statement. Besides, I already use Aimpoint products and am a proponent of them. There is no need for him to "sell" me on his product.

Why is it "absolute nonsense"? Two word answers are useless. Please back your statement up with facts, or at the very least, personal opinions framed from first hand experience.

**** This is a response to Nickjc, not the OP. Like you, I too am low speed/high drag but my rifle gets fairly hard real world use use. Not only do I train often with a fairly stout firing schedule , it also is a rifle that gets used operationally. No, I am not trudging through mountain passes in Afghanistan or doing DA jobs in third world shitholes across the world, but I do rely on my rifle regularly and it has to be up to the task at a moments notice. That said, the deciding factors for a rifle you are relying on to protect your home is not a matter of hard use, it is a matter of immediate use and reliability. A weapon used for HD doesn't need to have been used hard, but it needs to be reliable and ready to go to work at the drop of a hat, every time. The rifle and all its accessories need to be reliable if used in that role. If you are going to use an optic for a weapon in this role, then having a quality optic is important, as is battery life, and ability to retain zero. The ability to pick up the rifle and be ready to go immediately is crucial in a HD scenario. For example, my Aimpoints never get turned off - I pick up my rifle and I am ready (Quick side note - I took a Colt Armorer's course a few weeks ago, the instructor is also an Aimpoint rep. He stated that it takes more juice to turn an Aimpoint on from the off position, than is used by leaving it on one of the NV setting for months. I thought that was interesting...) Other optics need to be turned on, some even need to have batteries installed before powering up. I find that unacceptable when something goes bump in the night, you are woken up from a dead sleep, disoriented, and are now behind the curve, or in my case when you need to grab the rifle from the rack in the car and be ready to go. As far as those who want to keep their rifles pristine, I am with you (my favorite example if this so far is putting the fuzzy side of velcro on the brass deflector so it doesn't get marked up ) I just don't get it... My rifle/optic/light are beat up, but they run with boring regularity. They are maintained properly and they go bang every time even though they are scratched and dinged up. But you are right, it's their rifle - their choice. That however does not mean you don't give the best advice you can, based on your own personal frame of reference, when someone asks for help. It also doesn't mean that you don't hope that someone's decision to purposefully purchase inferior gear for a potentially lifesaving job doesn't come back to bite them. You can lead a horse to water.....

That's funny. 4 on 1? I would have done the same and bought you your ice cream. Those odds are untenable at best. Carrying or not, just let them have the car. If it turned into something more than a car jacking, fight, because you have nothing left to lose.

Also I looked up some reviews on your chosen optic and compared them to the ones I could find on the PRO. How you convinced yourself that the Sightmark is a better optic and a better value is beyond me. Anyway... Like I said good luck with it. Keep an accurate round count and a log of any issues that pop up. Please report back your findings and experiences after you have 1000 rounds or so through it.

Double tap