Qel Hoth

Because it certainly won't be the fault of the poor oppressed minorities who are being watched by the army....

Unfortunately it won't matter. The law in NJ only applies when it is beneficial to the people in charge, ad evidenced by past NJ Supreme Court decisions.

Unless there is something I'm missing, that is not entirely accurate. You can't just go buy "assault weapons" or high cap mags because you are a LEO.

Welcome from Cherry Hill. I know there's at least 4 or 5 of us on the forums here. I don't have any experience with them extending as I am on my first round of permits myself, but maybe one of the other members will know.

My point was that if there is enough slack that you can get 15 on a closed bolt (ideally), and they make a slight measurement error or through normal wear and tear, you may be able to jam a 16th in there if the bolt is open.

Personally, I'd rather have mags that will do 14 on a closed bolt than 16 on an open bolt...

The UK also never had the tradition or culture of firearms that we have here. Any comparison between different countries must be taken with a grain of salt as the differences in culture may greatly influence what is seen.

Shoot, its a lot of fun.

Actually go to the PD and ask to speak with someone, might work better. You can have a Glock 17 with a 15 round mag, IIRC PK90 will modify them. You can have an "AK" (really a Saiga, PAP or such) with a pistol grip and 15 round mags. This is a pump gun. You can have as many rounds in a pump gun as you feel like.

Yes, if you go to the show in Oaks, DO NOT put "oaks convention center" or anything similar in your GPS. It will take you to some industrial park about 2 miles from where you want to be.

We are a LONG way from that happening. Even if the last 2 missiles were to succeed, their maximum range was not much closer than Hawaii.

There are a number of things I could and wish to say to you. However, in interests of being the more mature person, I will restrain myself. If you read my posts, I was not asking for that ammo because they were HP, I was asking for it because it is ammo that I know works well in my gun and it just happens to be hollowpoint. Train as I fight? Really? I am 22 and on track for a career in Engineering. It is highly probable that I will never fire a shot in anger in my entire life. Contrary to whatever awesome tactical military/LEO/security training you have, a 22 is a good tool for practicing the fundamentals of shooting. Whether you're shooting 22lr, 9mm, .40, or .45 out of an M&P your stance, grip, breath control, trigger pull, and sight picture are the same. I'm not allowed to "nitpick" my ammo because it's cheap? Ammo A and ammo B are roughly the same cost per round. 500 rounds of ammo A leaves the front 1/3 of the slide covered in powder residue, has bits of lead poking out of the barrel, turns the top inch of the magazine black, and consistently has FTF and/or FTE. 500 rounds of ammo B leaves only the very front of the slide slightly blackened from powder residue, has no lead in the muzzle, leaves the top of the magazine relatively clean, and feeds, fires, and extracts very reliably. Am I not allowed to choose ammo B over ammo A simply because "they're both cheap?" Either way, I don't care if you respond. I'm done with this discussion. I had a bad experience at Rayco and I will not be returning for the foreseeable future. If you think they're the best thing since sliced bread, good for you.

Yes, we are talking about .22lr hollow points. I wasn't buying them because they were hollow points, I was buying them because they a) WORK b) copper plated/washed c) clean (for a 22 anyway). I wanted to buy Federal 36gr CPHP, load #745. Instead I took what he had, Federal 40gr LRN, load #710. I will not be buying that particular ammo in the future. I shot 500 rounds of it tonight, it is almost as dirty as Remington Golden Bullets, and just about as reliable. At least 2 rounds per box did not cycle the slide completely, I had 5 stovepipes and 1 empty get stuck between the ejector and the breech face, how that happened I have no idea. Oh, did I mention they were dirty? With the ammo I wanted, there is almost no smoke. With the ammo he had, there is a nice cloud after you fire 12 rounds.

I am going to "bash a locally and American owned gun store" because there are other locally and American owned gun stores that are more than willing to sell me what I want and do it without giving me an attitude. One of our vendors can correct me if I am wrong, but AFAIK, there is no more "hassle" involved with the sale of hollowpoints than there is with the sale of any handgun ammunition. I have no issue with a business decided they will not sell hollowpoints, non-kosher foods, or fluffy kittens for whatever reason they want. Had he said "I'm sorry we don't sell hollowpoints," this thread would not exist. However he said "We don't sell hollowpoints because they are illegal." Which is incorrect. Lets face it, guns were designed to do damage. At least as far as I'm aware, those 9mm FMJ rounds aren't cotton balls, and I don't want to be shot with one. The military has been using standard ball ammo since they have existed, and they have no problems killing people. Using your logic nobody should own guns, because someone might use it to hurt another person and the gun shop/manufacturer will get sued. Prosecuted for using HP on a person? There is no law saying that HP are illegal to use against a person. Either its a good shoot or its not.

I highly doubt that it will cycle most semi-autos. It should fire fine, it just won't cycle.

When it comes to things that are regulated and require licenses (Gun dealers, ammo sales (in NJ and some others), alcohol, tobacco, hunting, etc), there are regulations that are promulgated as well. For holders of these licenses, the regulations carry the weight of law.

Where did you get the mags for the 22? Mine have been on backorder with S&W for 3 weeks now...

22, been shooting for about 3 months.

I stopped at Rayco to grab some ammo since I didn't have time to go anywhere else. I asked for a few boxes of Federal 36gr CPHP, as they work very well in my M&P and are fairly clean for a 22. His response was "hollowpoints are illegal in NJ". When I told him that HP are not illegal, just restricted, he became very condescending since I "apparently know all the laws." I'm sorry, but I don't need to be talked at like a child, especially when I'm right. And with all the restrictive and confusing laws in NJ we don't need any more misinformation, especially from people who should know better. In the future I think ill be taking my business to another local shop, probably pk90.

I don't remember definitions except for semi-auto shotgun with pistol grip, folding stock, or 6+ magazine, and the 15 rd fixed internal mag for rifles being on that site. I could be wrong though.

Hmm, I wonder if waybackmachine has that page archived. Will check when I get home.

The evil features are not in the NJSA, they are an opinion written by the NJAG. There was a lawsuit (1996 i think) where a judge held that "substantially identical" was unconstitutionally vauge, and so the NJAG wrote a paper directing prosecutors how "substantially identical" should be interpreted. That paper is what includes the "evil features" test that we now rely on. http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=40971701&Depth=4&TD=WRAP&advquery=2C%3a39-1%20%20Definitions&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&rank=&record={1A38}&softpage=Doc_Frame_Pg42&wordsaroundhits=2&x=34&y=12&zz= NJSA http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm NJ AG guideline

Law abiding just means you haven't killed anyone YET, didn't you know that?

While logically you are correct, that is not the way the AG or any prosecutor would interpret it, nor is it how it is written. The type of action is never mentioned in the criteria for what constitutes an assault firearm. If the handgun (rifle, shotgun) has any two of the listed criteria, it is "materially identical" to any of the weapons banned by name, and is therefore also banned.

After shooting my M&P 22 on federal bulk and winchester 333 tonight, I can say for sure that yes, Remington is the worst 22lr I've tried yet. With the federal, there's almost no smoke, every round feeds and fires, and every shot cycles the gun properly. With the Winchester, there is a bit of smoke with each shot, but every round feeds, fires, and cycles properly. With the Remington, you'll think you're shooting black powder, you can spin the bullets in the case, you get yellow crap all over your hands, 5% of the rounds don't fire at all, you check for squibs another 5%, and 10% don't send the slide far enough back to strip the next round...