ruger9

Not interested in the Blackout's funny caliber. And I think I will drop the piston requirement... my buddy with the AR (DI) says his next purchase is a piston AR, I just assumed they were better... did some reading, and DI is just fine with me. So- now to re-look at all the retailers offering the AR platform in 7.62x39...

I really like the AR platform, and I prefer the 7.62x39 over the .223. Simple really. I see Larue makes one, but it's $$$$$$. It seems .223 piston is easy enough to find, 7.62 DI is easy enough to find, but 7.62 piston is not. I could probably easily settle for a 7.62 DI, the piston would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker. I'll keep researching.

I've been researching this stuff myself, and have been trying to find something very particular... maybe someone here can point me in the right direction... I held my buddy's Bushmaster AR, absolutely loved it. Felt like it was a part of me, very comfortable, very fast. What I'd like is this AR platform, but in 7.62x39, with a piston system? From what I gather, the main problem with the "7.62x39 ARs" is the mag issue... with the cure being to build a lower that accepts AK mags? Anyway, there are a few AR/7.62x39 models out there, but none that I can find are piston driven?

+1.

I agree- I'm a musician, and we have felt the same way about guitars and gear... you can rent amps from a few places, but almost never guitars. Trying a guitar or amp out in the store, even multiple times, doesn't cut it. Most of us have resorted to buying USED gear, that way if we sell it we won't take a ridiculous hit on the resale. I have no idea how reliable used optics are- what little I know of optics, if it works, it works. As long as it's not all beat up? But an optics rental sounds like a great business idea to me- ranges rent guns, why not optics?

It was my buddy's permit, I went as his guest, he said $30 for a year, and it can all be done online- pay online, print at home.

???? I haven't been to sunset hill in a number of years, but I could have sworn we shot my buddy's M1A on a 100 or even 200 yd range there...? This would have been at least 5 years ago, possibly longer. It was definitely NOT 50 yds. It was AT LEAST 100.

There are affordable options out there... it's up to each of us to decide what we are willing to pay for. I recently paid full retail for a USED gun, because you can't get one... I found one used, the market dictated the price, and I willingly paid it. I don't feel that way about optics.

Yup, I'm all for the free market- and for exercising my right to not overpay for something.

Easton isn't south, it's 30min due west. I'm in Hackettstown. I did the PA fish and game public range last week... very nice, but it's hard to "stretch out" my carbine 3 rounds at a time (rifles and shotguns are limited to only 3 rounds loaded at a time.) The club in Hackettstown is the one I mentioned- Shongum. The waiting list is YEARS.

What gun clubs are around in PA "just over the border"... Rt 80 or Rt 57/22??? I live 5 min from Shongum, but it'll be years before I get in, and Cherry Ridge is kinda' far away... PA is actually closer for me (Hackettstown). I guess clubs OR ranges?? I know about Sunset Hill, that's just a range I believe?

Totally agree- at the ridiculous prices they sell for!

Again- I said I'm not judging. It's just not something *I* would do. I would never be in favor of legislation to curb hunting rights. I also don't smoke- and I LOVE the bars even more now that I'm not choking on smoke. BUT- I've never been for infringement of rights, even rights of things I "don't like". And the "(possible)infringement of rights" is how we got to this from airguns lol

Wow! Good info there. As usual, NJ is "ahead of the pack" in tyranny... big surprise...

I don't think we're disagreeing here... I never said instinctual shooting = shooting with your eyes closed. "Use the force, luke." Of course you have to be able to get a sight picture. But getting a sight picture doesn't mean you're not shooting instinctively. ...I'm starting to think we have different definitions of instinctual shooting.

Me either. Not judging, but I don't get the killing for "sport" thing, regardless of the animal. I have a friend who shoots groundhogs out his bedroom window, "for fun". I don't get it. For me to pull the trigger and take a life- any life- there has to be a reason other than "fun", like "food" or "self defense." Just mho.

Exactly. That's my point... "sight picture" doesn't necessarily mean lining all 3 dots )or whatever) up on the center of the target. That is at least part instinctual shooting. You've aimed at a target (be it a target, steel, clay, person, animal, whatever) so many times at least part of it, especially in CQB and rapid fire, is instinctual.

Completely disagree. It's all repetition and muscle memory, just like playing a musical instrument. I can hit ONE string out of 6 on my guitar, not because I'm looking at it, but from repetition and muscle memory. You look at what you want to hit, you point, and you fire. Now... I'm not saying that negates sights... not at all. You obviously need sights to get you there. But after awhile, it does become second nature. No way are those competition guys actually lining their sites up for every shot every split second. As far as carbines being designed for that, I'll admit that might be taking it a bit far, but- a light, short, points-like-a-finger carbine definitely lends itself to that kind of shooting. And in combat, again- no way did all those M1 carbine shooters line up their sights when a charging enemy was 20ft away... they pointed, they fired. Sure it was hit and miss, and sheer volume of fire, but again, point being put a few thousand rounds out that way, and muscle memory begins to develop. Instinctive shooting is most definitely not "snake oil", but to each his own.

Didn't like the Eotech I demoed, was considering a red dot, but I think I'm just gonna' stick with irons. For one, they're more challenging at the range (and at the ranges this gun/caliber is designed for), and if I want a tack driver I'll buy something else and scope it. I've always been a fan of "instinctive shooting" (point-and-shoot), which is what carbines were designed for, really. The only wrinkle is it takes alot of practice. I need to get a .22lr to put a bunch of rounds downrange affordably...

When I research, I tend to go back to the BEGINNING.... what started things... hence my reference to 1932. For example, when I discuss the economy and fed (bank), I take it all the way back to the beginning... with Alexander Hamilton. It and it wasn't called the "fed" then, and it wasn't the EXACT same thing it is now, but that's where it all came from.

Oh, my, please forgive me for not being 100% clear.... I also said in my last post "that started it all"... 1934 the national firearms act: It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in its National Firearms Registry. My point is, look up the definition of infringe. Our 2nd Amendment rights have been infringed upon for a very long time now. Regardless of what anyone may "think" about it, we have every right to own a machine gun or any other type of firearm, if we so choose. Anything restricting that is an infringement.

1932 the uniform machine gun act: In 1932, a Uniform Machine Gun Act[23] was presented by the Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws. Therein, the possession or use of a machine gun of any kind for offensive purpose is declared to be a crime. Such possession or use is presumed if the gun is found on premises not owned or rented for legitimate use by the possessor or user of the gun; if the gun is in possession of, or used by, either an unnaturalized foreigner or a person previously convicted of a crime of violence; if the machine gun is of the kind most commonly used by criminals and has not been registered as provided in the Act; or if shells adapted to use in that particular weapon are found in the immediate vicinity, thereof. ...that started it all with regards to automatic weapons.

The first step in restricting something is passing legislation that controls or taxes it. At first glance, it may sound like you're "getting" something, but that's the trick: once you allow them to have control of it, it's theirs, and they can do whatever they want, with precedent. Frankly, even some people here may think this extreme, but imho EVERY gun control law, including the 1932 one banning automatic weapons, is an infringement of our 2nd amendment right. As "reasonable" as it may have sounded at the time, it's been a slippery slope ever since.

+1. I voted Lonegan in the primary as well.

Really? I didn't know that (obviously)... so all the Sigs, H&Ks, Beretta, etc... all have American "arms" where the weapons are actually manufactured here?