jackandjill

There is no doubt that punishment should be severe for real DV, but few things from this ruling are interesting... ---------------- The knowing violation of the gun laws in and of it self is a sufficient statutory basis for the court to order a forfeiture of seized weapons, without the necessity of the court also finding that the defendant is unfit or a danger to the public in general or persons in particular... --------------- So you are done as soon as you acknowledge knowing the law..... -------- his admitted display of an untenable disrespect for our State's firearm regulations. -------- The guy admitted as part of the PTI plea.. "untenable disrespect" may be bit far fetched. ------------- Our nation's recent history is stained with the blood of far too many innocent victims who have died at the hands of people using these high capacity magazines.. -------------- Sounds more like a campaign speech.

Everyone knowing and someone able to prove in court of law are different things. When court cases take years to progress, what is the strategy if not for lining up as many cases in courts as possible ? And that costs money. Money is also powerful player in elections. We debated this many times - we need BOTH court cases, litigation and powerful, sustained political campaign to move things forward. I love to see these happen and am willing to contribute, apply & go vote. But I doubt this will happen in in NJ, not in any meaningful way.

It took all of 3 posts to get to "leo vs non-leo", yet people often ask what would happen in SHTF situation. Isnt it clear just from thread ? On to the topic, the situation with OP LEO shows that for NJ, CCW is not about public safety, not about qualifications, not about children, not about lives, not about anything else but control. NJ would not give CCW to anyone who is not currently obligated to follow state orders. Period. Case Closed. I think the only reason LEO exceptions are made is due to Union negotiations and CLEO escalations in the background.

But "we" cannot make it happen. Not in any meaningful way. I will donate $10 for every application, upto $10,000 if 1000 people sign up. And I challenge 100 other 2A proponents to do the same. We would have a million bucks. Its no match for Bloomberg, but its a start. You would think doing this is relatively easy given "millions" of gun owners in NJ.

I dont think it will happen in NJ. There is not enough organization, planning, legal backing and possibly numbers (participation) to make this happen in NJ. Would love to be wrong here.

Not debating about DC, but rest of the country sees NJ in similar light. We cannot even get couple of thousand people to organize and apply for CCW. I get more emails from CA FFL group about 2A things than from any organization in NJ. Our definition of "cracking down on towns" is begging-softly. With this recent thing in DC, NJ has won sh**ty list winner prize.

On a side note, I find NJ 2A orgs to be very passive. I probably get an email from CA FFL group about this before getting anything from NJ groups. Not sure if they dont have funds, backing or have info that isnt available to public. What happened to that "mass concealed carry " application effort ?

Interesting Scenarios (2&3) mentioned in that document. Does it mean if a person from NJ (who doesnt have a NJ carry permit) carries in DC, he/she will be arrested because NJ requires a carry permit ?

What else do you call it when a tragedy is used to lay foundation for another ? What purpose do they intend to achieve by infringing on other law abiding citizens rights ? Did they do any basic analysis ? Do they talk about mental health issues ? Or is that too taboo because there is a nonprofit for every mental health issue that defends it as non issue ? You want to pick on some words to shut people up. Be my guest, but that doesn't address the problem at hand or grief. Dont get me started with sarcasm. I lost someone very close as child. I did not (and do not) go around looking for solution in other peoples homes and rights.

And thats what "makes them believe" that they are on a journey to make a difference. We as society are not to talk about certain things or disagree with certain things because it will be portrayed as "taking advantage of grief" or "for the sake of children". However, I have no respect for anyone who goes on a campaign of infringing on other people rights under the disguise of grief, children or change. No matter what type of pain they have gone through. In fact, such campaigns highlight disrespect for not only lives lost but for generations to come. I am sorry, but I disagree with them and they don't get pass from me.

ICBM ? :-)

Most of us from NJ (and likes) are too brainwashed by "way of life" that we don't think twice about rubbing it on rest of the country. If you are good to vote, participate in democratic process, elect Govt, pay taxes and roam the country as free man, then you are good to go with 2A. No exceptions, No restrictions. Restrictions on 2A should come with "strict scrutiny" , on case-by-case, as a last resort only. It cannot be "proactive" and "thought crime" based.

I would be careful with such rumors and speculation, specially when large amount of money is involved. Anything can happen anytime, but likely, no such thing will happen on 20th. I continue to look for good investment opportunities instead of keeping cash, but that got nothing to do any rumors. Note: Should this be moved to "NJ Prepared" section ?

^^^^ THIS. No wonder rest of the country has very little, if any respect for NJ. NJ Citizens must show that they have balls and willing to support such cause. Otherwise, dont expect other states or NRA to come to rescue when we need them. I have seen lot of emails and campaigns from CA-FFL group. They make it really easy to fill out a form and let politicians know of opinion. Why are NJ groups not that active ?

As other "Gun" polls were not in their favor, our friends came up with a trick question.

If the deal is too good to pass up, you let me know. You can feel better that the item found a good home

I am sure you know this already. They already have those ideas. They also know that law abiding citizens are NOT the root of the problem. They know, because of law abiding nature of people, they have ALL the time in the world to slowly but surely chip away at the 2A right. They dont want come straight out as Anti Constitutionalists, but want to take it away through gradual conditioning. Rest assured, they not only have ideas, they have written up laws ready to be introduced all the way to ZERO Firearms.

NJ will MAKE people buy it, and that is the core of the problem.

Planning to visit Great Adventure this Wednesday . Does anyone has any coupons, tickets for sale ? Appreciate it.

I am relatively new to NJ Firearm laws. But, as stated by many, it appears that almost all issues with NJ Firearm laws are rooted in the concept of Guilty Until Proven Otherwise. Take Concealed Carry for example: 1. Firearms are illegal by default 2. You request *exception* via FID process to purchase a long gun 3. You request *exception* via PP process to purchase a pistol 4. You request *exception* via FID / Travel modes / Home / Business etc to possess firearms 4. You request *exception* via Carry Permit Process to conceal carry Because these are *exceptions* to an otherwise illegal activity, due process must be afforded. NJ played very well and made Judges part of the process but set the guidelines, process such a way to result in denial anyways. So, technically no one can claim that denial was unilateral by any specific branch of government. But premise for all of this is the assertion that ALL Firearms and their possession is illegal. Had it not for that assertion, we wouldnt need these permits, exceptions, due process. Isnt it ? Had it not for that assertion, we wouldnt need the fake due process. If that one assertion is removed, all these things will turn on their heads and the burden of *proof* of illegal activity falls on the accuser (NJ). How can someone declare COMPLETE 2A as illegal activity and then have people *request exception* ? Are there any other areas of law / life where Govt made such a wide declaration and then demanded that citizens *ask* for exceptions ? We may fight each exception separately such as concealed carry. But were there any attempts to address the root cause ? Or is it just not possible ? <sorry, end of rant>

My understanding is YES. And the fact that a Republican Gov/AG did NOT do it is depressing at best.

^^^^ And the choice is (and should be) yours, fair and square.

I also called and emailed my district reps who voted NO, thanking them and urging them for continued support.

The bill was the last major piece of gun control legislation Democrats pushed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre. Originally, Senate President Stephen Sweeney (D-Gloucester), who represents a competitive legislative district, refused to move it even though it had passed the Assembly. But after he won a new four-year term in November, he agreed to put it up for a vote in the upper house, saying lobbying from Sandy Hook families had changed his mind. ----------------------- This bill should have never reached this stage. Sweeney ducked his commitment and responsibility to his citizens. Lobbying from Sandy Hook families ? He should move to CT if so interested in Sandy Hook families.

He cannot. WE need to show our force and have someone introduce *reasonable" bills. And then continue the force and let politician know that they should pass those bills. THEN he can sign them. For some reason, the NJ Firearms community seem to unite under threat only. There is very little unity in going on offense and pushing few pro bills. We may also need more Repub candidates in office to get wind behind us.