jackandjill

Does anyone here see firearms as candidate for collection / investment (long term ofcourse) . If so, any pointers as to what to look for ? Appreciate it.

You don't want that. We have enough of three branches in bed with each other, if anything, we need more separation.

Tyranny would be officially in when legislative, executive and judiciary branches all become one and repeatedly fail and/or delay justice to People. Despite being under threat of religious nuts, crazy military and power hungry dictators, judiciary system in Pakistan does lot better.

The title of article uses "Gun Lobby" where as the link uses "Gun Nuts". "But unlike the partisans who make our laws, I spend my time (and video footage) trying to find common ground with those I generally disagree with. Even if it means a trip outside my comfort zone (ie the shooting range) for my first time.". B.S, just the way titles are named shows the "partisan" aspect of it. Grow a pair, stand your ground and call it what you like to call it, Mr. Donohue. Looks like Mr. Donohue is looking for some viewership. I would just delete this thread and not let him get another viewer. Whats the point, other than ad/viewer revenue ?

I thought this was discussed and settled (somewhat) many times .... Nappen referring to transporting / possessing with FID, 00:40 I could be wrong..

Apparently there are few other positions that CC nominated Repub leaning Justices and Dems blocked that effort. So a deal is made where CC will reappoint Rabner and Dems will let CC do one position Repub leaning. And all liberal bar associations continued to pressure in the "interest of impartial judiciary traditions". Impartial my ass, Rabner did what he planned to do as soon as reappointed.

NJ isnt going anywhere. Remember, large corporations (specially white collar) are establishments. And establishments dont like subjects exercising powerful rights such as 2A. NJ/NY protects large establishments, large establishments pay money and gets people to work, those people pay taxes, NJ/NY gets tons of money. Rinse and repeat. In fact, I see the decease to spreading to other states. As the "companies" and "tech" spreads to likes of Austin, Denver, Dallas etc, so is Anti-2A sentiment. So called Repubs haven't done anything to curb the decease. We are no better at the Fed level either. We had Bush for 8 years and that guy could get Patriot Act done but not one (other than letting AWB expire) pro 2A act. If national Repubs were so pro 2A, why dont we have a national carry law by now ? If things continue the way they are, long term (20, 50, 100, 200 years) outlook for 2A doesnt look good.

Yep. Not that SCOTUS was eager to take up the case. They were looking for a reason to duck the case anyways and our NJSC Judge played well, and got reappointed. Good luck to us all for next 30 years.

Forget gun control debate, he got caught in bigger debate of Republican / Conservative the moment he compromised to reappoint NJ Supreme Court Judge. The immediate impact of that move was denial of Pantano case. CC may veto mag ban to "look like" he is helping 2A proponents, but he all but sealed fate of NJ 2A rights for next 30 years at the least with that reappointment.

Could it be that SCOTUS looks for clear and consistent splits across the country for such issues ? By keeping a case alive (not passed judgement) at the state level while SCOTUS is reviewing to take up a similar case, is it possible to drop a seed of "doubt" into SCOTUS mind that results in denial to hear ?

Interesting read: http://www.northjersey.com/news/defense-mounts-for-reappointment-of-n-j-chief-justice-stuart-rabner-1.1013514 The Pantano decision is lot clear (as to why it was done this way) if one reads into the background. Based on this, dont expect to anything to change at NJSC level for atleast another 20 years. And then NJ need to have a Republican (not RHINO) in Gov seat to nominate a 2A friendly Justice i.e Not Happening. NJ Bar associations lobbied for reappointment to keep "independent judiciary" alive. How are such decisions (like Pantano) represent "independent judiciary" ?

And they will continue to be traitors but how long do we continue to play the defense. Even the defense is dwindling. Republican or Democrats, I dont believe an establishment ever likes the subjects exercising serious rights such as 2A. A NJSC Judge getting rid of yet another important case with one liner a day after reappointment by a Republican Governor ? The message and intent is clear as day.

BTW, there goes our "Vote Republican" argument. To be honest, in my limited view, I have not seen what the Republican Governors or Presidents did to support 2A.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. -------------------- Not sure which one is worse, NJSC playing games or SCOTUS side stepping important questions. Courts in Pakistan have more balls than here to stick to the supreme law of the land.

Often, there is little doubt in what Founding Fathers were thinking. You can sense this even in many anti-2A arguments. Antis often argue that founding fathers did not know/anticipate power and type of today's weapons, admitting to the true intent of 2A. Silly arguments such as if people should possess nuclear weapons, destructive devices etc ensue. They go that extent of questioning because they know the answer - YES, its an individual right. The reason many "try" to dig meaning and interpretations is much simpler and related to basic psychology. We all tend to think "we" (but no one else) are the best keepers of power. It happens with all of us all the time. Even strong 2A groups have this "fissure" among them, in terms of debating whether "someone" else can be trusted with firearms, manner of carrying, limitations of carrying etc. Only those who understand the true concept of free person, can really understand 2A and its meaning. Everyone else just looks for interpretation that would fit their view. Freedom of speech, Due Process, 2A, all are created with single intent i.e provide verbal, legal and physical means of self defense (first) and defense of their free state. If the argument is that 2A only applies to State, then we might as well apply the same to First and Due Process and let State talk on behalf of individuals, let State decide fate of individuals without due process. </end of rant>

After reading some of the Open Carry related threads here, I am beginning to suspect that We, The People of NJ do not support 2A. We get what we elect and deserve. Add to it that, over the period of time, NJ had been very clever in crafting laws, like we are an "issue" state, but we don't. We would have been lot better if our rulers were just dumb and ban things all together.

There is nothing brave about it. No more brave than sending my kids to play at a house with weapons. AD/ND could happen anywhere / anytime. There is no guarantees about it. Only way to eliminate is to eliminate firearms (MOM/Anti argument). Again, I am not supporting someone putting up a stupid pose with weapons. But arguments such as "why do you need to OC AR or....." sound lot like arguments in favor of all those silly restrictions that we all despise. I should know when to refrain a discussion, but one last item -

Generally, its a pissing contest to the bottom. NSA, CIA, DHS are in pissing contest with each other. FBI wants to be those things. TSA wants to be FBI. NYPD wants to be FBI. JPD wants to be NYPD. Beauty of all this is, DHS is dishing out free money (courtesy Patriot Act and Our Taxes) arming the PDs to teeth. With tons of money available in security and weapons contracts, its bringing a commercial angle of blackmailing manufacturers who compete for those contracts. "I will award contracts only if you dont sell those bad black things to citizens".

This notion of "winning over general public" is how we ended up all things NJ. So many people here recall going into woods after school with BB or 22. Along comes someone and makes law because "we need to win over general public". FID, P2P, AWB - all to "win over general public". When enough is enough and we "win" over public ? Here is a secret - you dont win over general public - ever, specially when it comes 2A, unless the whole country goes down the drain and everybody's lives become worthless. We have some rights left not because we won over general public, its because we ARE general public (percentage of it anyways). Only other way to win (?) over general public is to stay "out of sight, out of mind". Lock your guns in a box, ammo separate, lock it again, put them in a pink box and wrap is with a puppy print towel. Instruct your kids NOT to tell anyone about your firearms or interests because they will then unfriend you. Lay low, clean your unloaded, double, triple checked weapons in a closed basement, dont do it on your front porch. Is it really winning ? No doubt those two picked wrong spot to take pics, but Moms... dont need any excuse to bring another corporate into crosshairs and put them on spot.

Someone is always nervous about something. Thats how we got NJ firearm laws. Dont complain when we get 10 round restriction, because "someone" felt "nervous" about people having 15 rounders. Lets fact it, people are nervous about lot of things, including seeing black, gay, lesbian, interracial couple in places where they "dont expect". Am I going to walk into a store with my children when I see two guys OC'ng ARs ? Absolutely, just like I will walk into a store where a gay couple of kissing. Because a) Its not lllegal b) Its their right c) None of my business . The day I feel "nervous" about other people exercising their rights is the day I stopped caring about my own rights.

I am looking for someone with little bit of honesty, dependability to do some custom cast work. Any recommendations ?

Interesting perspectives, most of them sound like the shoe being on other foot. Whats the difference in walking into a place seeing people open carry vs knowing people may be conceal carrying loaded weapons. How are they any more or less dangerous than a concealed carry, should a "nut" decide to "crack" ? People do stupid poses for pictures all the time. Did these folks walk into the store with muzzle raised or pointed ? Did they break any laws ? If they did, then let them deal with it accordingly. We tell everyone and use in literature how stupid it is that an "assault" looking firearm is banned or restricted where as a "innocent" looking equivalent is not. So why all this negativity on two guys carrying ARs where its legal ? Would our reaction been different if they carried "innocent" equivalents with wood stocks but with same lethality ? Would our reaction been different it these were two "hot" chicks ? Two folks show up with open carry (legal) and response is "that guy looks crazy". If we pay attention to our own words, we sound lot like Sweeney, Weinberg. In fact, I now have more respect for Sweeneys and Weinbergs. Imagine, you are elected official of State Senate and have to deal with public outcry (misguided) over having to approve CCW for "self defense" with possibility of "nuts" walking around with loaded, concealed weapons. Imagine you are CLEO or the guys processing paperwork at PD and have to deal with "crazy looking guys" submitting paperwork, but you still have to stay within law and process the paperwork without any prejudice ? That tough job, going by majority of opinions here. We (most from here) would do worse job than likes of Jersey City PDs, because "we" wouldnt like "crazzy looking, short guys" submitting paperwork. What those two did is stupid, but they are no more crazy than most of us here. I bet they got their firearms through same NICS process and carrying those weapons within law. Why the out cry ?

I have strong feeling that 2A community in NJ is not as strong as most of us here think. When push comes to shove, I think there is probably about 0.01% of 2A folks who can follow through on their commitment. If there are million firearm owners out there, when is the last time 10% of them showed up in Trenton for a peaceful protest ? or rally against gang violence in inner cities where gun control is out of control ? Are there 20,000 people out there who are willing to apply for CCW, get denied and take their cases all the way to SC ? How much money did folks who are going through court cases were able to raise through 2A community ? $2K ? 5K ? 10k? I suspect its not much compared to what these things cost to drag through courts.

NJ AG should: 1. Declare the smart gun law violates SC ruling in Heller / McDonald 2. Clarify that "self defense" fits justifiable need definition Loretta Weinberg knows this wont stand in court (atleast in SC as it stands) and rather "compromise" now than have all of it thrown out. I say let them take this to court. What starts in NJ doesnt stop here, the decease will try to spread to other parts. We should all (including NRA) should fight it on its home ground than waiting until it spreads.

"The Supreme Court is offered 8,000 cases each year, and takes 80—that’s one percent. So the justices are extremely picky in which cases they take." May be, we ALL should be applying for CCW , get denied and line up case after case and get that 8000 count to 80000. If this was just about percentages, I am sure we will win. Silly, but a thought.