jackandjill

Hindsight is 20/20.

I dont know who , but NJ has some very bright freaks who write these laws. I am not sure if its sourced to some law offices or legal center. But you can see every anti 2A law is VERY carefully crafted. Back that up by anti 2A legal system and judges, they got a winner. Even SC didnt want to touch it. Most us think they are clueless and dumb, they are anything but.

First comes 5 day period, then comes 10 day period, then comes a month and then registration and data retention. Also dont be surprised folks who buy more than certain amount end up on no-fly lists etc. All in the name of children.

Just like our "may issue" CCW laws that circumvents constitutional rights without denying them, could it be that rifle or pistol clubs fall under "militia" definition and freak who wrote NJ laws were prepared to defend the laws for any future challenges ?

I see lot resentment about what Mr. Drake said (or didnt say). I may get flamed for writing this. It takes determination, money and ba*ls to do what Mr. Drake (and others like him) did. I venture to guess that 99% of 2A proponents (including me) are armchair proponents who would never go to the lengths that Mr. Drake went to fight for what he believed to be his right. Read this board, most of us dont want to even apply for a carry permit because we are afraid (lets me honest) of being rejected and having that haunt us for rest of our lives. We dont even exercise the existing rights with fear of getting arrested by cops who may or may not know the laws. We debate every day about locking firearms in the box, in the trunk, with ammo, without ammo. We hold our bladder with fear of "deviating" from the trip to range. Drake did what most of us wont even dream about doing. You think you can do better ? Please do.

Better analogy could be seeing NJ (with current attitude towards 2A) as a cancerous body part. You cannot simply get rid of it, you cannot just ignore it. Abandoning NJ may work fine for short term. But take a look at a long view and you can see that cancer slowly but surely spreading and taking over completely. As an example, would we not fight what JC does and just tell everyone from JC to move ? That will only further what JC wants and in no time JC standards become NJ standards. In my opinion, its important for NRA (and others) to continue help the fight in NJ for NJ is just not a body part that can be cut off and forget.

As someone mentioned, even if the court were to rule in our favor, NJ would have just made Open Carry and arrest folks under public nuisance laws. ( I know, I know, its the principle that counts) On a lighter note, apparently we can "carry" our long guns with FPID out in open and still be legal. Nappen went as far as to say that he could be driving around with one hanging out of the car, but suggested against it. How many of us exercised that legal avenue? <duck>

Judiciary systems in some so-called third world countries are far better than here at home. The simple fact that tools necessary to defend self needs someone's permission and justifiable need is mind boggling. There is a not a single most important issue than defense of self (verbal, legal and physical) that applies across gender, color, sexual orientation and economical status. The fact that SC denied hearing of such an important and broad aspect of individual freedom is just shameful. In NJ, Animals have more rights to self defense than People. Real shame. Win, or Lose, individual rights are ALWAYS under attack. We all may be feeling "down" today but cannot give up on making continued efforts to getting our rights back.

Then JC doesnt need to violate state law by requiring additional forms, correct ? They should comply with court ruling and follow the law. I personally appreciate of your involvement (at any level) in making the place, state, country secure. But the sense that somehow some city, town, state need "more" protection, process or requirements than others doesnt make sense. In fact, it is that sense of being "special" or being under a threat (more so than rest of the country or world) that leads to infringements and in severe cases out right dictatorship. What works for NJ should work for JC, no additional forms or processes required. In fact, what works for free states should work for NJ, no additional processes, forms required.

Terrorism, Home Base, extra forms from JC saving the day - sounds like next installment of Die Hard where John McClane will save the world from a Terrorist using the form filled out for a FPID. Why arent the said Terrorists buying firearms from other free states ? Is FBI NICS so incompetent that Terrorists legally buy firearms after going through NJ background checks, mental health checks and NICS ? Only thing that can save all of us from Terrorists are the extra forms from JC ? Really ? In all seriousness, I now know why we in NJ deserve what we get. As someone rightly said, its not Bloomberg, Not liberals, Not politicians, its many of our own from 2A community.

Thanks. While searching the "interwebs", someone said "its illegal to sell gunpowder without a federal license". Hence the question. And thanks for the cautionary note on open container too.

Is there any NJ (Fed) law against buying a 1 pound smokeless gun powder from a private party in NJ ?

Last I heard about "vote rigging" was when I was traveling in a third world country. Ashamed to know that the politicians in my backyard have degraded that level. Why is opposition parties not more vocal on this sort of shenanigans ? Even in third world countries, this sort of thing would be all over news and opposition screaming all over.

Dealt with the man. Personal experience taught me that there is no use for a logical discussion and its better to leave some people alone.

Donno. Everytime I see prepping topic, always lot of focus on food, focus on protecting from mob/zombies and stuff like that, but not much discussion around possibility of confiscation and potential solutions around it. Those prepping shows involve either folks already living far from urban areas in isolation (with lots of food, bunkers and firearms) or where urban environment is involved , prepping is limited to lollypop defense (I am not kidding, fighting with lollypop). So been wondering if firearms provide any real, practical defense in SHTF situation in urban environment.

And my point is, a) don't underestimate ability of federal/govt response to deploy troops. They may not be able to provide real help, but they will be there to disarm. b) don't ONLY focus too much on zombies and food. Pay attention to other elements such as possibility of confiscation and prepare for it too.

Dont underestimate. They succeeded once with the fake, online pharmacies :-).

As much as we like to believe, there are VERY few LE out there who is going to defy orders. In addition, there will be national guard, marshals etc just like Katrina to execute on those orders. See another story on what happens when an isolated LE stands up for 2A rights. Moreover, the orders are going to come with proper (and logical) justifications of "controlling the situation in the times of not able to differentiate blue team from red team". Anyways, SHTF in NJ presents special challenges to firearm owners and it may very well be of no additional use if you are banking on it too much.

I wouldnt touch anything even with a long pole that ahole dictator comes up with or has name associated with it.

Unfortunately thats exactly what happened and what will happen in a future event. Its gets even more interesting with City denying ever confiscating firearms to contempt of court to continued saga until 2008 (well into 3 years) of not returning the confiscated firearms. That was well into 2 years after a federal law was enacted prohibiting the actions (with some exemptions). Once your own city/state start to confiscate, it will be interesting how people plan to GTFO NJ with maze of other state laws and transportation restrictions. BTW, the federal law enacted in 2006 prohibits taking your firearms with you if want Govt assistance in SHTF situation. Its also likely that you will be given a 'forced assistance' there by confiscating firearms, all using the law thats supposed to prevent confiscation to being with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms "...Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[80][81] .."

Social events (and their sequence) will probably be similar with emp too. With grid out of commission, lights out, no gas to pump etc , wide spread looting will probably kickin pretty soon. Initial response from law enforcement (with all good intentions) will be to confiscate, including possibility of declaring all FPID invalid and firearm ownership and possession as "ineligible" activity, hence suspended. Short term or long term, once basic ways of defending in chaos is taken , everyone (specially law abiding citizens) will be sitting ducks for the real thugs and physically powerful to rampage through.

I may get flamed for this, but some responses to Op question seem to jive with NJ attitude towards firearms. Interesting to see how psychology plays into all of this. 1. Why do you need radar detector, just drive slow ====== why do you need a 30mag AR, just use hands and kitchen knife or that 2 round magazine 2. Sole purpose of radar detector is go crazy over speed limit ====== Firearms are for thugs and criminals 3. If I catch you with radar detector, I will stick it to you ===== Legal owners of firearms deserve extra sticking for breaking any other law Not complaining, just interesting to see folks come with view point of the other side.

I believe first and foremost challenge in any SHTF scenario is going to be about surviving the local firearm confiscation, specially in places such as NJ. GTFO NJ may not be an option depending on type of scenario. Regardless of where the like minded folks are going to gather to defend, are those places/organizations psychologically strong enough to resist local confiscation orders ? Reading about Katrina incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms), it worries me to read loaded terms such as "Insurrection Act" and attitude of local powers - "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.". I am aware of "Disaster_Recovery_Personal_Protection_Act_of_2006" that is supposedly provide protection against such confiscation. But something tells me NJ folks with fully ignore it with their "screw them first and deal with it later" attitude. Anyone aware of any NJ law that is would help firearm owners in such scenarios ? And what about not transporting firearms outside the exemptions in such scenario ?

Regardless of what/how S is going to HTF, in an environment like NJ, is highly likely that powers be will come door to door to grab firearms. It happened before (Katrina) and it will happen again. And we all heard " .. rather be judged by peers than carried by 6". But whats your practical plans to survive the confiscation before actually surviving the SHTF ?