wooly bugger

Here's what I have on the firearm ID process. It's been awhile for me, so can others fact check? Summary of Process to Obtain a Firearm in New Jersey 1) Submit application to police department 2) Obtain fingerprints for background check 3) Solicit three character references 4) Await character reference review, background check results and police department approval (Total time often takes 6-9 months) 5) Repeat entire process above, minus fingerprinting for permit to purchase pistol. This permit expires in 90 days 6) Present firearm ID and matching photo ID at store. Fill out paperwork for point of sale background checks. Two separate background checks are run: one at the state level and one at the federal level 7) Wait for results of “instant” background check: currently running about 2 weeks 8) Return to store to pick up firearm Notes: · A total of 3-4 independent background checks are performed before a firearm can be purchased. · If the firearm ID holder is convicted of a crime or committed to a mental institution, the firearm ID is revoked, and the individual will fail any further point of sale background checks, thus blocking any future sales · Newark mayor Corey Booker recently stated that, after reviewing the history of firearm crimes in Newark, he could identify only one committed by someone who had undergone the above process

I alluded to this in another thread, but I'll be more concrete. What do people think of preparing the following flyers: 1) Summary of the process, costs, and timelines of getting FID/P2P and actually buying a gun. Most antis have no idea of this and are often surprised when the see how thorough the system is. 2) Summary of currently proposed legislation, with critique and controversially, proposals on how to modify the proposals without throwing them out altogether. Some are (putting on asbestos suit): 1) Mandate higher security FID with bar code and tamper-proof features, but no constant renewal requirement, 2) require that online vendors have photo ID, FID, and credit card information on file prior to shipping ammo. IL does this. 3) Quotes from the Heller decision, including historical references. This will be key to countering what will undoubtedly be an extremely one sided presentation at the Westfield meeting on the "historical basis of the 2nd amendment." Talk is cheap, so, if we can agree on flyers, I'll take on the time and cost of actually putting them together and running off copies at Kinko's. I'd really appreciate NJ2AS opinions here, as I'd prefer that we all speak with the same voice and wouldn't want to inadvertently undermine their messaging.

Just reading that article makes my blood boil. This "gun safety" crap is annoying. Gun safety is about treating every gun as if it's loaded and always pointing downrange. Maybe we should put together a flyer on real gun safety to hand out. And the "historical basis" of the second amendment is sure to be a piece of partisan garbage. I'm going to reread Heller and come in with a cheat sheet of quotes they used in that case to support the ruling. One suggestion: the article states that there will be petitions to sign. Should we bring our own petitions?

One followup question....if I am lucky enough to score one elsewhere, do I have to transport it in a locked case, or is it sufficient that it just be securely wrapped. Also, do I have to keep it separate from any groceries I may have in the car?

Did anyone go to the event in Winslow a couple of weeks ago? Any plans to attend the one in June? I'm interested but would like to get opinions before I commit a weekend. As a sad commentary on the state of things, I think I'll stay at a hotel and take a cab to the site. Given the patriot theme of the event, I don't want curious LE to note my license plate and put me on a list. McCarthyism is alive and well.

I think the two biggies here are the rash of overlapping bills banning internet ammo sales and the one that requires FID renewal every five years. Should allow time for lively discussion. Unconstitutional as it is, I'm sure no one's going to vote against or veto the the Terrorist Watch List one. It's probably also symbolic, as I suspect the feds will laugh if individual PDs start trying to access the watch list, and pro-2A politicians at the federal level may even pass legislation prohibiting them from doing so. I'm focusing my efforts on the two above.

Here are two model letters. My opinion is that, rather than focusing on our rights or the Constitution, we should focus on practical matters. It's been made abundantly clear that they don't give a rat's ass about principles. I would like to express my objection to bills A3645, A3646, A3666, A3750, and S2476, all of which would require all ammunition sales to occur face to face. These bills are overly restrictive to legitimate buyers, while providing no impediment to illegal purchases. In fact, online purchases create GREATER accountability than face to face. In addition to an ID, the user must provide a credit card and physical address. If this is not enough, an FPIC could also be required, as many vendors voluntarily do. As a model piece of legislation, here is what Illinois, a very restrictive state, mandates. (430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3) Sec. 3. (b‑5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents. Eliminating online sales imposes a significant burden. There are thousands of types of ammunition, most of which are not available in physical stores. With a dwindling number of gun stores, driving to one can entail a very long trip, and this can’t even be combined with a trip to the range, because any deviation between home and the range, even to buy ammunition, makes the driver a felon. Let’s be realistic, anyone with the wherewithal to obtain an illegal gun probably obtained a side order of ammunition to go with that gun. And rather than navigate through the four levels of security outlined above, it would be much easier to just make a quick drive over to PA or DE, walk into a gun store, and pay cash, without showing ID. I know that in this environment, it is politically expedient to pass laws imposing arbitrary hardship on gun owners. I would ask that ideally, this bill would be seen for what it is and stopped. If such symbolic legislation must go through, please at least try to minimize the unnecessary burden on lawful citizens. Thank you. I am writing to express my opposition to bill A3772, which would require a new design for firearm purchase ID cards (FPIC.) The bill would require that all current holders reapply for the new card within two years of passage and then reapply every five years thereafter. Under the current law, the card is valid unless a holder becomes ineligible, in which case it must be surrendered. Even if it is illegally kept, the card number is flagged, so that if it is used in an attempted purchase, the card will not match a valid card at the time of the point of sale, and the purchaser will be arrested. For the same reason, a counterfeit card is useless, since the name and number will not match a valid card in the database. Using someone else’s card also doesn’t work, as a matching photo ID must be presented with the card. Finally, as a fail safe, every purchaser must undergo an instant background check at the point of sale.I am unaware of any case in which a counterfeit card has been used. The current system works perfectly. Police departments across the state are heavily strained in keeping up with just the initial applications and are usually unable to process applications within the statutorily mandated 30 day time frame. Under the current bill, a "renewal" has all the requirements of a full application. With approximately 1 million FPIC holders in the state, the constant reapplications will be a logistical and financial nightmare, both for police departments and individual FPIC holders. This bill is more about burnishing the anti-violence credentials of the sponsors than about improving public safety. This is inadequate reason to burden a million lawful gun owners. If you have any questions or would like to discuss further, please feel free to email me at Sincerely,

I'm going to go just for the chance to heckle Cryan.

Some really great ideas on this thread. Let's get them out to the friendly senators, so they'll have them in their back pockets when it comes time to debate and hopefully modify the bills.

Does this company have a good reputation for quality? If so, I'd be interested in one.

I like Aguila. The 38 grain high velocity is great. Packed well so the bullets don't get dented. I've never had a misfire, which is more than I can say for Federal.

One of the bills requires "face to face."

I thought Sweeney announced he was bringing only 12 bills to committee. What happened?

Imagine that in Trenton! I do wonder if the OC helps or hurts us. I understand the concept of "normalizing" guns in public, but I can see it backfiring. No doubt that picture will be used to spread fear and anxiety.

Do you have any examples of people succeeding without either buying influence of abusing their positions of power?

Note the agenda for next week's senate committee hearing doesn't include the .50 cal ban but does include mandatory training, ban on online ammo sales, and requirement for continuous FID reapplication nightmare.

Here are the members of the committee, with email addresses. They'll all be hearing from me tonight. Donald Norcross (Chair) [email protected] Linda Greenstein (Co-chair) [email protected] Christopher Bateman [email protected] James Holzapfel [email protected] Nicholas Sacco [email protected]

Strange, it works for me when I click on it. Try cutting and pasting this into your browser, minus the quotation marks: "http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/BillsForAgendaView.asp" If that doesn't work, go to the main page: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/Default.asp Look under committees on the left column (fifth from the top) and click on Senate Committees. On the right side of the page, click "Law and Public Safety." Finally, click "view schedule."

I'm signing up for the bus. I thought I'd get back in time to pick up my son for daycare at 6. No way that's happening with this many bills and the late start. Something stinks to high heaven here. I'm starting to write emails right now.

Here's the link: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/BillsForAgendaView.asp Interesting. Every other session considers 4-10 bills and is scheduled to start at between 9:30 and 10:30. This one covers 18 and doesn't start until noon. Some of them are combined bills, and some are substantially identical assembly and senate bills, though, so I assume they'll be discussed together. I thought the bill banning online sales of ammo was off the table? Conversely, I thought they wanted to ban .50 cal. Where's that? Finally, there seems to be a stray non-law and public safety bill that sneaked in. "PANYNJ-cert. cargo, impose fac. charge" I'm getting to the point where when I see certain names of assemblymen or senators, I feel the hair raise on the back of my neck. It's getting really creepy in this state. People harbor a malignant and irrational hatred of us.

Even before all this started, MPC and friends introduced a bill to require federal NICS to be the only background check required to get an FID or P2P. Here's a quaint quote from the bill. "The NICS database is accessible by telephone or electronically via the Internet. In most instances, the information concerning a prospective purchaser’s eligibility to obtain a firearm is provided within 30 seconds." http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/A3000/2695_I1.HTM

I'm going to head out tomorrow afternoon with the toys. If anyone wants to meet up, shoot me a PM.

Both the Hornady and the CMP.

I've drawn the line in my head. I can't physically move my whole family to PA, but I can rent an apartment there and get an office at my company's PA branch. That's what I'm doing if this one passes. And getting a CCW. Does anyone know if it's possible to file a joint return with two different states of residence? Will this raise a major red flag causing the IRS to put surveillance on my bachelor pad overlooking the Delaware River and count the hours I spend there?