124gr9mm

Indeed. I think people are conflating 'training' and 'qualification'. The course details provided thus far for GFH and RTSP are for qualification, not training. That means you go there, shoot the course of fire, and receive a pass or fail. If you go to either place to take the qualifier there's a presumption/expectation that you have the requisite 'training' to pass.

That sign has been up at Willowbrook for a while. My wife mentioned it after she went there for dinner with some friends from work.

Interesting point. I didn't think 'printing' while carrying was a felony.

My answer to 26 is No, so I'm going to leave 27 blank. Neither yes or no make sense unless you answered yes to 26.

Do we leave question 27 blank? I answered "No" to 26, so do i leave 27 blank?

Interesting. So you shot the qual (successfully) with one pistol and they then added the rest to the list? Was there an extra charge for this or just a flat fee for the qual?

I think many agree that the quals are the most undefined part. The only standard available says that qualification is required, but there's nothing indicating that it HAS to be HQC1. There are retired LEO's who are practically insisting that HQC1 will be needed, but places like GFH and RTSP who have been providing quals for many years believe the standard they use is sufficient. They are both listed by NJSP as authorized places for qualification, so some people who are anxious are rolling the dice and going with the programs those places offer. I think we'll know once people start getting their permits (or rejections). I doubt NJ is eager to go out and add clarity, so don't expect much more to come out right away.

What was the course of fire? The modified one they have listed on their website (goes to 15 yards) or the standard one (25 yards)?

https://www.evannappen.com/how-to-get-your-nj-carry-permit/

Indeed. Thanks for playing.

Just relax. Stop with the imbecile and dumb stuff. We're all in the same boat trying to figure things out. RTSP and GFH aren't trying to rip anyone off or make a quick buck. They've been doing Quals for YEARS, so they're doing the the way they've always done so (as approved by the state). It's fine that you feel the only acceptable Qual is HQC 1, but places have been using other standards for years. I suspect both RTSP and GFH would work with people who get rejected and try to make it right. There are people who want to apply NOW, so those places are accommodating them to the best of their ability. The disclaimers are there just in case those efforts run into hurdles. I applaud the people who are taking the leap and being the first in line for this, but i suspect NJ will try to throw some curveballs, so I'm going to take a breath and wait a tick or two.

I still can't tell if you're serious. Could you explain your situation in a bit more detail? Respectfully, maybe use full sentences?

Good for him

Agree. IMO OP should probably find an attorney first and then discuss the path forward for the doctor. The attorney could help OP clearly state the reasons for denial and help the doctor and court better understand OP.

Something to keep in mind is that this is for Qualification only, not a class. That means GFH is signing off that you are qualified to handle/operate a gun. That's a pretty significant responsibility/liability. IMO I just want to get in, do the qual, and get out. If I thought I needed training I'd sign up for a class of some kind, but I thought the point was to eliminate the need for hours of additional 'CCW training'? And the price of the course is $150 if you only have one gun. That's the same as RTSP. Reloaderz is $10 more an they use the much more difficult HQC-1 qual. I don't think you're going to find anything much cheaper.

Seems like each course is different. Call the places you're considering and ask them. I would presume the GFH course isn't times because they didn't say it is and they said you could get by on 3 magazines.

We're actually pretty closely aligned. I personally wouldn't consider carrying a gun if I wasn't confident in my ability to safely/properly shoot it. I've taken training courses, competed in various GSSF/IDPA/IPSC/Steel Challenge/3gun, etc, etc matches and I try to go to the range once a week (though ammo prices and work schedule have made me slip a bit) so that i'm confident with all the long and short guns I have. On the flip side, i have friends and family in southern and flyover states who regularly carry but spend almost no time at the range (or backyard) practicing. I think my mindset is correct, but they have just as much of a right to carry a gun to protect themselves as I do. So while I personally agree that training/competency with firearms is a personal responsibility that should be completed prior to carry, i don't think it should be a legislated requirement.

People have been reacting to the insistence that there was a requirement to qualify 2x per year with the FBI/Police standard. They were expressing that it seemed extensive/prohibitive. I agree. IMO civilians aren't expected to engage in firefights and run towards situations where there's a gun battle the way FBI/Police are, so there should be no such standard to carry. Your responses seem to brush those concerns off and imply that the standard is fine. I referenced the Constitution because there's no such standard listed or implied there for someone to keep an bear arms. All you have to do is go to a Constitutional Carry state to see why the FBI/Police standard is not necessary. Again, I'm an advocate of getting as much training as possible and practicing as much as possible.

No idea why you're talking about firefights. The rest of free America doesn't base the ability to carry a gun for self defense on the results of a FBI/Police qual, so people in NJ shouldn't either. There are plenty of videos available where an untrained good guy with a gun stops a bad guy. Yes, that's outside of NJ, but the point is that we have to un-screw our minds to the damage NJ has done. I advocate/encourage as much training and shooting as possible, but I don't believe it's a requirement for a CCW. Basic proficiency and having a gun on you is far better than not carrying at all because you sucked at the "low light qual".

Constitution mentions nothing about "passing quals". Just because NJ has restrictive policies it doesn't mean that they're necessary or proper. While it wouldn't hurt, the average Joe who wants to carry doesn't 'need' police training.

There are people ranting on these thread about qualifying with FBI/LEO courses, night training, drawing from holster, twice a year,etc, etc. That's FINE if they want to do it, but it's not necessary. GFH has the qualification course listed on their site. It's PAINFULLY easy to anyone who practices even a little. – No holster needed – All shooting from the ready position – 50 rounds per firearm – FBI Q target – 24 rounds at 7 yards – 14 rounds at 10 yards – 6 rounds at 15 yards – 6 rounds at 25 yards For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)

Call GFH. The website asks that you bring at least 3 speed loaders for revolver. That implies there's no time constraint. IMO the FBI/Police quals being referenced are not necessary.

That's not the qualification at GFH. From their website: Qualification Course: In the range you will demonstrate familiarity of safe handling of firearms. Upon successful completion you will be given a certificate to submit with your application. All of our instructors are PTC, NRA and LE certified. Gun For Hire has been qualifying security, private carry and retired police since 1992. This is not a beginner course! You will be required to demonstrate safety, familiarity, and accuracy. It is pass or fail. – No holster needed – All shooting from the ready position – 50 rounds per firearm – FBI Q target – 24 rounds at 7 yards – 14 rounds at 10 yards – 6 rounds at 15 yards – 6 rounds at 25 yards For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)

IMO, Anthony @gunforhire has setup a great webpage that has links to all the forms you need to use and he's setup time slots for people to sign up for their the Qualification - https://gunforhire.com/nj-ccw-permit/ The website lists the qualification as $150 (+ $50 for each additional gun). Looks like a one stop shop for CCW needs.

Thanks Anthony. Have things settled down, or are the state police (and others) still making changes every day?