But the way these two institutions are perceived is indeed the same (as is everything else in the world for argument's sake).

The perception of these institutions are through our own personal projections-- subjective validation really-- and often times we use this personal perception to create an overarching model for institutions as a whole-- even if things at the micro level are far different ("walk a mile in those shoes," etc). This validation can paint things in a good or bad light, as demonstrated.

 

So, while, yes, the military and LEO communities are different beasts entirely, the general function is for both to serve their communities (at differing levels). Insert subjective validation in this application of discussing the LEO and military communities, and suddenly there is a night/day difference (in many cases, not all). I'm not saying that people are right or wrong, but to understand that while perception is often times reality, it is our own created-reality, and not necessarily the whole truth of the matter.

you have to take into consideration people who need to use cell phones for business on the road. If you are constantly on and off the phone 50 times a day while driving to different jobs, this law is impossible to abide by. People who owner their own plumbing business, heating and cooling businesses, landscaping businesses, they tend to receive a lot of phone calls, are they expected to pull over every 5 - 10 minutes in between jobs when they have a schedule they are on.

 

duh - Blue friggin Tooth!

 

You beat me too it.

 

EVERYTHING that a cop talks to base/disbatch should go out over the airwaves and be recorded. They can an do use the cell-phones to circumnavigate that procedure and do some pretty shady ****. Everything a cop needs to communicate about should be public record. On a lunch break and wanna call your wife? Thats a different story.

 

Everything IS recorded, whether its on the radio or over the phone..AG guidelines. Unfortunately Many departments dont have the abulity to Encrypt or Digitize their radio systems, and then everything that goes over the radio is available to anyone whith a $100.00 scanner.

Who needs a scanner?? My Evo has a scanner app!!!

How do you know that? Source? I know quite a few cops that started right out of high school.

 

Vet preference laws. Agencys must hire all disabled vets first, then vets,

then everyone else. Unless of course you are the mayors relative, they always seem to get hired.

But the way these two institutions are perceived is indeed the same (as is everything else in the world for argument's sake).

The perception of these institutions are through our own personal projections-- subjective validation really-- and often times we use this personal perception to create an overarching model for institutions as a whole-- even if things at the micro level are far different ("walk a mile in those shoes," etc). This validation can paint things in a good or bad light, as demonstrated.

 

So, while, yes, the military and LEO communities are different beasts entirely, the general function is for both to serve their communities (at differing levels). Insert subjective validation in this application of discussing the LEO and military communities, and suddenly there is a night/day difference (in many cases, not all). I'm not saying that people are right or wrong, but to understand that while perception is often times reality, it is our own created-reality, and not necessarily the whole truth of the matter.

Now in English please!

But the way these two institutions are perceived is indeed the same (as is everything else in the world for argument's sake).

The perception of these institutions are through our own personal projections-- subjective validation really-- and often times we use this personal perception to create an overarching model for institutions as a whole-- even if things at the micro level are far different ("walk a mile in those shoes," etc). This validation can paint things in a good or bad light, as demonstrated.

 

So, while, yes, the military and LEO communities are different beasts entirely, the general function is for both to serve their communities (at differing levels). Insert subjective validation in this application of discussing the LEO and military communities, and suddenly there is a night/day difference (in many cases, not all). I'm not saying that people are right or wrong, but to understand that while perception is often times reality, it is our own created-reality, and not necessarily the whole truth of the matter.

Now in English please!

:clap:

Subjective validation is something we all practice constantly in every facet of life. We believe something to be a certain way, and we then use specific examples to validate that subconscious belief, pushing aside other facts/notions (whether on purpose or not). A concrete example is how a conservative will watch Fox News ONLY, and hang on to every word Glenn Beck might say. There's nothing wrong with this, that's just how certain people live their life. (The only negative is when someone doesn't admit to this, and that's when it really becomes ignorance.)

 

This subjective validation in turn creates projections. The LEO and military communities are very, very intricate with deep histories-- filled with good and bad moments. When a person thinks of these communities, they will project what they know through subjective validation. And while this is definitely a form of reality, it is a self-induced reality that does not necessarily tell the whole truth. This is probably unavoidable as all of our lives are compromised of our own experiences. Meaning, we get pulled over by an a--hole police officer, we will most likely believe the next police officer we deal with is an a--hole. (And of course this course of experiences over time frame our projection of the community.) Whereas the interactions with the military might be sparse, gaining our experiences from short interactions with family/relatives and/or friends, or the random stranger even... or even through snippets of what the media says. And to take the discussion further, we all have our own opinions of doctors, lawyers, engineers, IT folk, customer service, etc. But unless we've lived that life ourselves or have become intimately involved with said institutions-- how much do we really understand?

 

I used the military example with LEOs because the military (as I've already noted in the thread previously) has really dark, ugly, corrupted sides to it-- like the LEO community. However because of our projections created through subjective validation-- we often see the military as shining heroes, and the LEO community as a bunch of a--holes with decent officers mixed in, when its not necessarily the case (in either community).

 

I don't mind trying to clarify, but please don't mock me either (not saying anyone has).

Subjective validation is something we all practice constantly in every facet of life. We believe something to be a certain way, and we then use specific examples to validate that subconscious belief, pushing aside other facts/notions (whether on purpose or not). A concrete example is how a conservative will watch Fox News ONLY, and hang on to every word Glenn Beck might say. There's nothing wrong with this, that's just how certain people live their life. (The only negative is when someone doesn't admit to this, and that's when it really becomes ignorance.)

 

This subjective validation in turn creates projections. The LEO and military communities are very, very intricate with deep histories-- filled with good and bad moments. When a person thinks of these communities, they will project what they know through subjective validation. And while this is definitely a form of reality, it is a self-induced reality that does not necessarily tell the whole truth. This is probably unavoidable as all of our lives are compromised of our own experiences. Meaning, we get pulled over by an a--hole police officer, we will most likely believe the next police officer we deal with is an a--hole. (And of course this course of experiences over time frame our projection of the community.) Whereas the interactions with the military might be sparse, gaining our experiences from short interactions with family/relatives and/or friends, or the random stranger even... or even through snippets of what the media says. And to take the discussion further, we all have our own opinions of doctors, lawyers, engineers, IT folk, customer service, etc. But unless we've lived that life ourselves or have become intimately involved with said institutions-- how much do we really understand?

 

I used the military example with LEOs because the military (as I've already noted in the thread previously) has really dark, ugly, corrupted sides to it-- like the LEO community. However because of our projections created through subjective validation-- we often see the military as shining heroes, and the LEO community as a bunch of a--holes with decent officers mixed in, when its not necessarily the case (in either community).

 

I don't mind trying to clarify, but please don't mock me either (not saying anyone has).

 

 

Thank you for the explanation. And I am not mocking. But that's messed up.

The perception is the reality? I guess that's why we have election day. And what you are saying in a "nice way" is those that have limited exposure to certain facts or subject matter have limited "schema" and form opinions based on that schema. Agreed! But furthermore, it is the responcibility of the individual to recognize their limited knowlege and shut the fuck up.

How do you know that? Source? I know quite a few cops that started right out of high school.

 

Vet preference laws. Agencys must hire all disabled vets first, then vets,

then everyone else. Unless of course you are the mayors relative, they always seem to get hired.

Veteran's preference only applies to Civil Service towns. Qualified veterans (there is NO separate provision for Disabled Vets) go to the top of the Hiring List after it comes out. Non-Civil Service agencies have NO restrictions.

Kpdpipes

 

If everything is recorded then lets say cop A calls cop B on his cell phone and says I just roughed this guy up a bit upon arresting him. I always hated this guy, can you come over here and verify my story that he "resisted" and thats how he got the black eye/broken nose?

 

Is that recorded?

 

What I am saying is that if a cop is indeed operating outside the law then they will prob be using their cell phones to do it. I don't see how their personal calls are recorded or monitored. A guy I work with is ex state police. He is the one who told me that the reason they use their cell phones is to call each other when they don't want what is being said/done being recorded. He was saying it in reference to cops doing shady things.

 

Again, I am not saying all cops are bad. Just saying that there are def more than a few bad apples in the bunch.

Kpdpipes

 

If everything is recorded then lets say cop A calls cop B on his cell phone and says I just roughed this guy up a bit upon arresting him. I always hated this guy, can you come over here and verify my story that he "resisted" and thats how he got the black eye/broken nose?

 

Is that recorded?

 

What I am saying is that if a cop is indeed operating outside the law then they will prob be using their cell phones to do it. I don't see how their personal calls are recorded or monitored. A guy I work with is ex state police. He is the one who told me that the reason they use their cell phones is to call each other when they don't want what is being said/done being recorded. He was saying it in reference to cops doing shady things.

 

Again, I am not saying all cops are bad. Just saying that there are def more than a few bad apples in the bunch.

 

What YOU said was

EVERYTHING that a cop talks to base/disbatch should go out over the airwaves and be recorded.

NOW you want to change the circumstances. Sorry, not gonna play Believe what you want..I honestly dont GARA.

The cell phone law is stupid. If you're driving carelessly while using it, a ticket should be issued for "careless driving". Even using a hands-free cell phone is a distraction. It is not the one handedness, it is the mental distraction it causes, not unlike your wife's back seat driving or kids fighting. BTW, not many police enforce this law.

 

I was pulled over last saturday for talking on my cell :doh: .. beach haven police on LBI.. if it is a work truck why bother the person...

I was pulled over last saturday for talking on my cell :doh: .. beach haven police on LBI.. if it is a work truck why bother the person...

You were probably profiled. :doh:

It is really amazing how some threads just seem to go nowhere, this being one of them The bottom line is there are bad apples if every facet of life, cops, teachers, doctors, judges, soldiers, mechanics, priests, cashiers, bankers, politicians, lawyers, nurses, waiters, landscapers, wives, husbands, brothers.....and so on and so on. Yes some people are held to a higher standard, but you cannot control the actions of everyone all the time. Lets face it, there is NO ONE here on this site now that cannot admit to never allowing their moral compass to stray. Lets get serious, what is the point of trying to drag an entire profession through the mud online, just because some of you were caught breaking the law and can't deal with that.

I was pulled over last saturday for talking on my cell :doh: .. beach haven police on LBI.. if it is a work truck why bother the person...

You were probably profiled. :doh:

 

Now in English please!

It might be lawyer/politician speak. Sorry, I can't translate..lol

Side note... With the cost of cell phone tickets I don't know why people refuse to buy a 20-40 dollar headset when they buy their 400 dollar smartphone, or any phone for that matter. It's so much easier to drive and talk and its not even 25% the cost of a ticket.

cant stand the ear piece throws off my eaqualibrium, have bluetooth on my gps but then everyone hears your conversation.. no one needs to know my buisness..

I think they are annoying. I drive a cop car anyways so I guess for all intents and purposes I'm exempt from that law unless I get stopped

 

 

|

|

V

:hand:

The cell phone law is stupid. If you're driving carelessly while using it, a ticket should be issued for "careless driving". Even using a hands-free cell phone is a distraction. It is not the one handedness, it is the mental distraction it causes, not unlike your wife's back seat driving or kids fighting. BTW, not many police enforce this law.

 

 

I disagree. Several weeks ago I was following a Jeep and this thing nearly went off the road several times. Far worse than myself when I drive drunk. Anyway, I pull up to a light next to it and sure enough, a young female on a cell phone. She was speaking Italian with her left hand, cell phone in the right. She must have been steering with her feet. Probably doing something important like making a hair appointment or telling her girlfriend about her missed period. It's amazing what people are willing to die over. I still see way to many people on Route 80 weaving and talking on the phone. If they were just a hazard to themselves thats one thing, but these idiots are a hazard to others.

 

 

Was watching CNN this morning and they showed a video of a cop beating on some guy who was talking on his cell phone. I think they said Denver, but I'm not sure. He's currently suspended for fudging some paperwork regarding this incident. Looks like he's going to be pumping gas for a living soon.

 

Used to be a good ol beating from a PF24 would straighten you out in the old day's. :clap:

he will probably get a job with verizon, it was an at&t customer he beat on.. :mrgreen:

Used to be a good ol beating from a PF24 would straighten you out in the old day's. :clap:

 

If they didn't have laws against handing out an occasional deserved ass beating the police wouldn't need to cover it up. If you're a public nuisance a boot to the head might change your tune. I work with the public and they suck. Too many of them feel they do, say, and act how & what they want with no consequences. You can tell someone he/she is a friggin a-hole and scream in their face, but don't go running to the cops when you get your eyeball plucked out of your head.

 

On the other hand it's not right that they can talk on the cell phone. The stealing, falsifying reports, sleeping on the job, and other misc. wrong doing doesn't bother me.

Someone was probably getting ready to drop a dime to the media on Fuentes, Was probably having nighmares of an ethics investigation and losing that fat pension check. Most of us would be pissed about that 3 year insurance increase but we pay for the vehicle he speeds in.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0 ... ndent.html

 

 

I'd also like to compliment him for keeping it off the guard rail. :clap: :clap:

 

I find that personal experiences with local police, mixed with all of the bad press, has shaped my feelings about them. A few bad apples may have been the cause of that, but they are the ones that asked and have been given the authority over us all. Public perception of the police is HUGE in my opinion. I think since I've been around that perception has gone down the toilet and cops these days are doing nothing to fix it. The police I've run into lately come off as a**holes, lazy, careless, and dishonest to the badge and laws they swore to uphold. I'm sure you all have personally seen it... cop talkin on the cell phone while driving around, speeding without reason, tailgating people, not using turn signals, etc etc. Then they turn around and give a citation to someone for the same thing? Damn have some friggin honor! I'm not even gonna to talk about the TONS of cases of cops involved in serious crimes lately. Lead by example if you want respect!!! Your ACTIONS determine the respect you receive, not the badge or the uniform!!! The same principal applies for EVERYONE, not just cops.

 

Everyone here has a right to their opinion. If a case by case is what you want, I can start posting every time I see a cop doing some illegal crap. Probably a few times a week. THAT will get tedious. I'll start out by saying that today on my bike ride I saw a cop driving down the street talking on the cell phone. Cops -1 respect.

 

I would make this my signature if it wasn't so long. This is THE POINT. 100% truth.

An old lady at lunch was telling me about this one today... I can't remember how but she either is related to somebody married to one of the agents, or one of her relatives is a good friend of the agents. She said one of them just remodeled their kitchen, spending around $85,000... damn shame! I guess when you are forced to retire from the FBI you turn to extortion! cops -2

 

http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/ ... arres.html

 

Thomas Bara lives less than 1 mile from my house in South River... I rode my bike less than a block past his place yesterday