Not sure if it's been asked.

 

I was just wondering if loaded speedloaders or moonclips are also considered

loaded magazines and fall under the same fines and punishments.

Theres no fines or punishments for loaded magazines unless they are loaded AND IN the gun

 

Regardless, clips are not magazines and they do not feed ammunition into a firearm. It would be like asking if ammo boxes count as magazines.

Theres no fines or punishments for loaded magazines unless they are loaded AND IN the gun

 

Regardless, clips are not magazines and they do not feed ammunition into a firearm. It would be like asking if ammo boxes count as magazines.

 

Well that is news to me. I was told in the NRA Basic pistol class I took that a loaded mag is

the same as a loaded weapon. I always dump my mags after a match, but I'm afraid one day I'll

forget. Of course that's the day I'd get pulled over.

 

Hey man, it's NJ I wouldn't put anything past these crazy laws.

I don't think that loading a magazine takes that long at all, so I travel with my mags unloaded just to be on the safe side. I honestly don't care if I could make things SLIGHTLY easier for myself....I've got such little time left in this state that it's just not worth effing up.

Not sure if it's been asked.

 

I was just wondering if loaded speedloaders or moonclips are also considered

loaded magazines and fall under the same fines and punishments.

 

 

??? What Fines and Punishments????

Well that is news to me. I was told in the NRA Basic pistol class I took that a loaded mag is

the same as a loaded weapon. I always dump my mags after a match, but I'm afraid one day I'll

forget. Of course that's the day I'd get pulled over.

 

Hey man, it's NJ I wouldn't put anything past these crazy laws.

 

 

please tell us who taught you that so that others can avoid that misinformed instructor..

I believe that this misinformation is being fostered because of Nappen's book - which some NRA instructors rely on heavily for NJ law. I heard an NRA instructor at the P-burg Pistol Club parrot the same line. I believe that Nappen is speaking of one case. Whether that makes precedent, I don't know - I do not believe so. It just points up the possibility of multiple interpretations and unjust outcomes. There is nothing in the statutes about transporting loaded magazines.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

loaded gun in car... illegal

loaded mags in car.. legal

 

the law is plain black and white and spreading misinformation irregardless of who thinks what.. is a bad idea IMO..

Sorry if I stated something not true, but I really did believe this as it was told to me in that class and I've

also heard others say it as well.

 

Funny you mention Nappen's book as I was applying for my P2P yesterday at my local PD and the detective recommended

his sight to get clarity on gun laws and their interpretations. Is it not a good resource?

Sorry if I stated something not true, but I really did believe this as it was told to me in that class and I've

also heard others say it as well.

 

Funny you mention Nappen's book as I was applying for my P2P yesterday at my local PD and the detective recommended

his sight to get clarity on gun laws and their interpretations. Is it not a good resource?

 

you only relayed information you received from an instructor.. obviously you thought the information was accurate.. no foul on your behalf.. it is (as I stated via PM) just upsetting to see "instructors" who are otherwise great.. take the law and put their own little spin on it.. if you are going to instruct people on guns.. KNOW THE LAW.. you can't tell someone the right way to do something if you don't know yourself..

 

my comment on spreading misinformation was based on your source.. NOT you directly.. don't sweat it..

 

and not to "blow our own horn" as in NJGF.com... but honestly this site is comprised of some pretty knowledgeable people.. people who answer questions backed up with actual fact as opposed to anecdotal hearsay.. I would not hesitate to ask any legal questions you have right here..

 

while the people here can not TELL you what to do.. as most of us are not qualified to give legal advice.. we can share with you the law AS IT IS WRITTEN coupled with our understanding of said law..

Funny you mention Nappen's book as I was applying for my P2P yesterday at my local PD and the detective recommended his sight to get clarity on gun laws and their interpretations. Is it not a good resource?

 

 

You can go to the NJSP website and read the law for yourself. Nappen's book offers interpretations of those laws. The NJ gun laws, whether by intent or not, are vague in many instances and open to various interpretations. Nappen may be giving you an interpretation based on the outcome of a specific case he handled or on which he assisted. That interpretation may only be valid under the exact same circumstances in front of the exact same judge or jury.

 

As Vlad said, we can't give you legal advice or tell you what to do. We can quote you chapter & verse of the law and give you our opinion. Nappen's book is just another resource and statements made in there are not written in stone, they are his opinion.

 

Doubt if this helped - probably more confused now than before - but hey, that's the way it is in NJ with the gun laws.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

"loaded" mags are "ok" if and only if there is NO gun(s) present in the car. The "loaded" mag is "ok" if and only if, it is not filled w/ "hollow point" ammo. The loaded mags are "ok" as long as the mag does not exceed "15-rds".

 

That was fun....Gotta luv NJ.

"loaded" mags are "ok" if and only if there is NO gun(s) present in the car. The "loaded" mag is "ok" if and only if, it is not filled w/ "hollow point" ammo.

 

 

what are you talking about..

 

In NJ we all agree you may not transport a loaded firearm...

some people think that NJ considers a loaded magazine a loaded firearm..

fortunately.. that is not the case and NJ clearly defines the word firearm..

 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

 

"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic

rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected

any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by

means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or

explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm, which is in the nature of

an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is

a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or

is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch

in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

 

also hollow point ammunition is approved for use at the range.. so you could in theory have loaded mags with HP ammo in your car to or from the range..

 

http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

 

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

 

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

 

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."

N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

 

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

 

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;

2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;

3.A person going directly to a target range, and;

4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

 

unless of course there is some law describing what you posted...

"loaded" mags are "ok" if and only if there is NO gun(s) present in the car. The "loaded" mag is "ok" if and only if, it is not filled w/ "hollow point" ammo. The loaded mags are "ok" as long as the mag does not exceed "15-rds".

 

That was fun....Gotta luv NJ.

 

OK, now I'm even more confused..."If and only if there are no gun{s} present in the car?????? I carry all my mags and speed loaders loaded simply because I want to shoot not load... Guns are unloaded and locked in separate case because I drive an estate wagon. WTF?

"loaded" mags are "ok" if and only if there is NO gun(s) present in the car. The "loaded" mag is "ok" if and only if, it is not filled w/ "hollow point" ammo. The loaded mags are "ok" as long as the mag does not exceed "15-rds".

 

That was fun....Gotta luv NJ.

 

We as a group need to stop making this stuff up, please don't make your own rules and laws, we have it bad enough with out this stuff.

 

At least the 15 round count right..

"loaded" mags are "ok" if and only if there is NO gun(s) present in the car. The "loaded" mag is "ok" if and only if, it is not filled w/ "hollow point" ammo. The loaded mags are "ok" as long as the mag does not exceed "15-rds".

 

That was fun....Gotta luv NJ.

 

All I own is hollow point ammo, and I routinely load mags before driving to a match. I am 100% within NJ law.

All I own is hollow point ammo, and I routinely load mags before driving to a match. I am 100% within NJ law.

 

If you goto a "match" w/ or w/o HP's, I guess that would be ok, but dont have guns on board. I goto work with loaded mags but no guns and loaded w "Jersey" 'hollowpoints'.

 

Just 'driving around' w/ hollow pt. ammo in NJ is a risk, unless from ammo store, to from range etc. But not jus "driving around" to buy lotto tickets or to the local Butts & Bets.

If you goto a "match" w/ or w/o HP's, I guess that would be ok, but dont have guns on board. I goto work with loaded mags but no guns and loaded w "Jersey" 'hollowpoints'.

 

Just 'driving around' w/ hollow pt. ammo in NJ is a risk, unless from ammo store, to from range etc. But not jus "driving around" to buy lotto tickets or to the local Butts & Bets.

 

How do you propose I compete in a match with loaded magazines and no guns? Throw my ammo at the targets?

 

Loaded magazines being construed as loaded guns is a MYTH. Please stop spreading this false information.

Are you driving to the match with guns and ammo?

Are you driving to the match with guns and ammo?

 

Yup.

Then I think you should be fine. Was answering original OP questions. We all know bout transport pistol and pistol ammo, which there is more info on that pinned thread above, "Everything you wanted to know about transporting firearms" topic. Good luck w/ your Match.

Then I think you should be fine. Was answering original OP questions. We all know bout transport pistol and pistol ammo, which there is more info on that pinned thread above, "Everything you wanted to know about transporting firearms" topic. Good luck w/ your Match.

 

You answered the OP's question incorrectly. Driving to the range with a loaded magazine sitting next to an unloaded pistol is 100% legal.

Are you driving to the match with guns and ammo?

 

 

no offense but what you posted was just flat out wrong.. the idea that you can not have loaded mags AND a gun is incorrect...

 

of course this assumes you are transporting otherwise within the rules of transport..

Loaded magazines being construed as loaded guns is a MYTH. Please stop spreading this false information.

 

 

Definitely not a myth! I have read of several cases (not necessarily in NJ) in various gun or police magazines where courts have ruled that a loaded magazine near an unloaded gun constituted a loaded gun even when the law didn't specifically define it as such. NJ law doesn't define "loaded firearm" so some courts may feel free to define it for themselves. I wasn't there but its my guess that the instructor may have just been trying to keep his students from falling victim to some unscrupulous anti-gun cop/prosecutor/politician.

Definitely not a myth! I have read of several cases (not necessarily in NJ) in various gun or police magazines where courts have ruled that a loaded magazine near an unloaded gun constituted a loaded gun even when the law didn't specifically define it as such. NJ law doesn't define "loaded firearm" so some courts may feel free to define it for themselves. I wasn't there but its my guess that the instructor may have just been trying to keep his students from falling victim to some unscrupulous anti-gun cop/prosecutor/politician.

 

This is NJ not some other state. And the courts cannot make up stuff. A judge can interpret a law, but he can not just make something up that doesn't exist. NJ does not define a loaded mag as being a loaded firearm(the magazine is not part of the gun). The Magazine must be in the firearm.

 

You need to read the NJ laws, stop reading crap out there on the internet. Cali, defines the magazine is part of the gun, hence if its loaded,the gun is loaded. that is written in their state law. NO SUCH LAW EXISTS IN NJ.

 

The difference is when the magazine is defined as part of the gun, it opens up interpretation when its loaded. If no such definition exist, there is nothing to interpret.

Instructors who put their own spin on things are ONLY doing the public a disservice when explaining law... Period... The law is the law is the law...

Instructors who put their own spin on things are ONLY doing the public a disservice when explaining law... Period... The law is the law is the law...

 

 

And what do you say then to lawyers who counsel their clients that because the magazine is PART of the gun, a loaded magazine is therefore a loaded firearm? I don't agree with the logic but IANAL, not even close. These instructors are merely parroting what the big Kahuna Lawyer with the gun law book has said several times. You can download GFHradio #24 and listen to it yourself, it's around the 50 minute mark on the show...

Instructors who put their own spin on things are ONLY doing the public a disservice when explaining law... Period... The law is the law is the law...

I agree... but I advise my students to keep their magazines unloaded because the misinterpretation of the laws by LEOs. It is common knowledge that a person owns a firearm in NJ at his own peril... and most attorneys will tell you the NJ laws are very gray and will be interpreted differently at a prosecuters whim. Prime example, the NJFID is a permit to purchase a long arm... but most conservation officers have been told that it is a permit to possess and are stopping hunters in the field asking for thier FID. Would the hunter win in court? Who knows? I warn my students of the magazine issue (and other misinterpreted laws) because someone will have to have awfully deep pockets to prove themselves right. Ofcourse that isnt right on many levels... but that is the nature of the state we live in. And for the record, I urge my students to get involved with organization like the NRA, NJ2AS, and NJARPC to help enact change for the better.

I say that when you start to abide by laws that do not exist you are only making things worse for the gun community and screwing other law abiding citizens... You are in essence doing the entire community a disservice...

 

If you know the law.. Teach it..

 

I transport loaded magazines... Why you ask? Because they are legal as per jn law... So when you or anyone else starts a rumor that they are not... People start to listen and. Believe that nonsense.. And now let's just say an Leo hears this and assumes that is true... Again more problems.... Educate people on the law... Not random laws you make up....