I'm not denying the power of buckshot or slugs, as those 2 are devastating rounds. If I lived in a large house or had more room, then buckshot would win out. But I live in a small apartment with the longest shot would be less than 15 feet. Inside that distance, birdshot is DEVASTATING. And not just any birdshot, super duper birdshot. http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/home-defense/home-defense-loads.aspx

I wanna test 5.56/.223 from close ranges

 

take a watermelon and throw it on the ground..

 

30lbs of felt recoil vs 2300lb muzzle energy. I'll take my chances behind the gun. They certainly dont seem equal to me.

 

Equal & opposite FORCE. There is obviously a vast difference between the outcome experienced by the person holding the shotgun vs the person being shot, but the different outcomes are not a function of the shot somehow striking more forcefully than it did when leaving the gun. Relative to the force it would actually take to knock a man down, the energy carried by even a 50bmg is only a drop in the bucket and "knockdown power" only exists in movies.

Relative to the force it would actually take to knock a man down, the energy carried by even a 50bmg is only a drop in the bucket and "knockdown power" only exists in movies.

did you see the energy transfer when that slug hit that ballistic gel, It flipped off the bench. I would call that knock down power.

did you see the energy transfer when that slug hit that ballistic gel, It flipped off the bench. I would call that knock down power.

 

And you'd be incorrect. A 20 pound block of gel laying on a table =/= a standing 180+ pound human. Knockdown power is the most definitively debunked firearms myth there is.

I'm not denying the power of buckshot or slugs, as those 2 are devastating rounds. If I lived in a large house or had more room, then buckshot would win out. But I live in a small apartment with the longest shot would be less than 15 feet. Inside that distance, birdshot is DEVASTATING. And not just any birdshot, super duper birdshot. http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

 

A BIG +1 for you Ray!

 

That new Duplex round should do the job nicely, without going through several walls and hitting any non-threats.

 

Sometimes the comments from some of the members of this Forum make me scratch my head in wonderment! I begin to wonder how many have even fired a 12 ga. let alone actually own one. I wonder IF they've ever tested the penetration of a 12 ga. slug on real wall-board? I wonder when was the last time they recovered a 12 ga. 1-ounce slug INSIDE a deer (doesn't happen in case you don't have a clue).

 

Ray, you go on protecting your family the right way, and I'll gladly do the same!

 

Dave

(the REALLY Old Fudd with over 44 yrs. behind a gun)

 

 

 

You know, I honestly thought this video would put the debate to bed. I mean, how can you argue with ballistic gel testing? Well apparently the ignorance of some runs so deep that it doesn't matter what kind of proof they see..

 

sounds a lot like anti's to me... no matter how much hard data you show them otherwise they're still right.

I'm not denying the power of buckshot or slugs, as those 2 are devastating rounds. If I lived in a large house or had more room, then buckshot would win out. But I live in a small apartment with the longest shot would be less than 15 feet. Inside that distance, birdshot is DEVASTATING. And not just any birdshot, super duper birdshot. http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

Where do you buy that Ray ? Let me know if you run low and want to go in on a buy.

 

Note: When most people say "Birdshot" they mean #7 1/2 or #8 shot - which is mostly used for clay busting. The video test was done with this size.

 

Ray Ray seems to be referring to the larger birdshot sizes, like BB or #2 birdshot

 

Note the size of the #2 birdshot - 1/2 the size of a 00 Buckshot pellet. Compare that to #8 shot, which is less than 1/3 the size.. I'd say that would still put on a good hurting to anyone on the receiving end.

 

I would like to see a test of say #2 or BB sized birdshot in gelatin vs #8.

 

OUCH

Where do you buy that Ray ? Let me know if you run low and want to go in on a buy.

 

Caso's always has some boxes.

 

Warning: This ammo has the recoil of a 2 3/4 slug.

 

I bet my life with this ammo as I've seen what it can do to wood stumps. I'll even say it's BETTER than buckshot or slugs inside 7 yards.

I shot 2 3/4 slugs no problemo I'm going to try that out next after I run out of what I have left over from Urban Shotgun . Small rooms in a Colonial house , 3 little kids in my house , homes close together , I would be very concerned with over penetration if God forbid we ever had a HD situation , and I would only ever be shooting if someone was closing a gap despite warnings .

I shot 2 3/4 slugs no problemo I'm going to try that out next after I run out of what I have left over from Urban Shotgun . Small rooms in a Colonial house , 3 little kids in my house , homes close together , I would be very concerned with over penetration if God forbid we ever had a HD situation , and I would only ever be shooting if someone was closing a gap despite warnings .

 

Then this is the ammo for you ?Sandy? Don't listen to these other clowns on here about ammo to use. Even if you had #7 1/2 or 8 shot in the gun it would still get the job done. But the BB Remmy ammo is a beast.

Hey ray what happen to your avatar, looks like a female :girlwacko:

Then this is the ammo for you ?Sandy? Don't listen to these other clowns on here about ammo to use. Even if you had #7 1/2 or 8 shot in the gun it would still get the job done. But the BB Remmy ammo is a beast.

 

Thanks , I'll be ordering it

Hey ray what happen to your avatar, looks like a female :girlwacko:

 

Yea, really, it's freaking me out... LOL

Hey ray what happen to your avatar, looks like a female :girlwacko:

Yea, really, it's freaking me out... LOL

 

Ummmm, do I have to explain my Diva?

Note: When most people say "Birdshot" they mean #7 1/2 or #8 shot - which is mostly used for clay busting. The video test was done with this size.

 

Ray Ray seems to be referring to the larger birdshot sizes, like BB or #2 birdshot

 

Note the size of the #2 birdshot - 1/2 the size of a 00 Buckshot pellet. Compare that to #8 shot, which is less than 1/3 the size.. I'd say that would still put on a good hurting to anyone on the receiving end.

 

I would like to see a test of say #2 or BB sized birdshot in gelatin vs #8.

Lead BB and #2 were the go-to loads to knock geese and snow geese of out the skies at 40-50 yds. so for up close, you can draw your own conclusions as to how effective it might be at room-distance. You don't see these loads much anymore since the ban on lead shot for waterfowl and the introduction of steel and steel-alternatives. In states that allow #2 lead for turkey hunting, it's often the go-to load and is effective on body shots.

 

Hevi-Shot has a cult following and is popular for critters like fox and coyote at distance in various loadings. Coyote hunters swear by their "Dead Coyote" load in T-size.

 

http://www.hevishot....&category_id=87

 

Hevi-Shot's defense load:

http://www.hevishot....Max_Defense.pdf

 

For those who want to handload Hevi-Shot:

http://www.ballistic...cts.asp?dept=67

Mr. Parker, I must try that Hevishot defensive load.

That Hevi-Shot Maximum Defense looks impressive, but is it REALLY good, because it's around $3.00 per round. I know some may ask what's your life worth, but it would be tough to afford to do much patterning with that stuff.

That Hevi-Shot Maximum Defense looks impressive, but is it REALLY good, because it's around $3.00 per round. I know some may ask what's your life worth, but it would be tough to afford to do much patterning with that stuff.

 

10 rounds (or so) to get the feel and to pattern it at different ranges.Then 10 rounds in or on the gun. 20 rounds needed, Max.

I think too many people confuse bird shot with 7 1/2 or 8 target loads. I consider a 3 1/2" 2oz. #4 shot turkey load a type of bird shot and also have a bunch of it. This can knock you on your butt from a kneeling position when shooting it. I do load my home defense shotguns with 4 buck or 00 buck but would not have any problem using Heavi-Shot or a turkey load.

 

 

lolz

lolz

 

Dude, your famous now... LOL

Actually my friend Tom is, I was the one taking the pictures haha. Funny either way.

I do what I can.

 

I do my testing in a secret location that only privileged friends can go, sorry you don't qualify.

Yea, I wanna know when the next trip is so I can finally go before I leave!!

Hey ray what happen to your avatar, looks like a female :girlwacko:

That's him at his weekend job.

I'm not denying the power of buckshot or slugs, as those 2 are devastating rounds. If I lived in a large house or had more room, then buckshot would win out. But I live in a small apartment with the longest shot would be less than 15 feet. Inside that distance, birdshot is DEVASTATING. And not just any birdshot, super duper birdshot. http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

 

I dont use this load its expensive regular 2 shot or bb shot will work very well also . just go to the seceret range and test it out for your self you will be surprized how well it works .

did you see the energy transfer when that slug hit that ballistic gel, It flipped off the bench. I would call that knock down power.

 

now think of a person how tuff are? we are not even as tuff as watermelon . so when it comes to this gel it is very dense we are not .that slug would punch a hole through a person with ease