And they let you carry a gun? Scary. Problem is once you aquire that attitude, you cant turn it off, the suicides and divorces in law enforcement tell the tale.

And they let you carry a gun? Scary. Problem is once you aquire that attitude, you cant turn it off, the suicides and divorces in law enforcement tell the tale.

 

Looks like another

Citizens dont pay the public workers salary? Dont like the reminder? Accountability can be such a drag, just like that pesky constitution, reminders about that seem to really annoy law enforcement as well. Remember the old days when you were suppose to protect and SERVE? Good day, public SERVANT.

 

The fact that cops are paid by citizens taxes is irrelevant. Police do not work for YOU, they do not take orders from YOU. They work for SOCIETY and take orders (through elected officials and their appointees) from SOCIETY.

 

"I pay your salary so go fugg off and arrest somebody instead of giving me this ticket" is a really old line, and is beyond stupid.

 

That said, I can't really comment on the tactics of addressing people who very well may be armed (they were standing next to a truck full of guns a minute ago...), so it is reasonable to assume they may still be armed. People can go from friendly to trying to kill you in an instant for a variety of reasons. However, finger on the trigger does seem a bit excessive. To me anyway, gun drawn signals willingness to fire, finger on the trigger is intent to fire.

I'm not calling any lawyers... its a small town here. I don't want to make any enemys unless im left with no choice. Plus I don't like lawyers or people who want to sue for everything.

 

Hate to disagree but just what rights were violated? They were responding to a call of shots fired and rapid fire semi autos can sound like full auto to non gun owners. They had no way of knowing who you were at the time so they approached you as they would any other suspects with guns. Once they ascertained your identity and the types of guns you had they wrote down your serial numbers to run against their list of firearms reported stolen or since you are in NJ, not registered. I do not see how your rights were violated because they did what they had to do and no one got hurt. You live in a State where gun are required to be registered so it was not like they were getting any info that was illegal to obtain. Just how do you expect our police to behave when responding to two guys with a lot of rifles? They did as they were trained to do and I certainly can understand why you did not like it as I did not like it when stopped in Florida with a legal gun in my posession but was put into handcuffs for the officer's safety while he ascertained that I had a legal right to have that gun in my car. How was he to know that I was not a felon?

Honestly...if i roll up to a gun job and I see a bunch of rifles in PLAIN VIEW most likely both subjects are getting cuffed until I deem the site safe. Sorry if you feel violated but it's a matter of officer safety. I don't know you so I don't trust you.

The misuse of the word troll is really annoying. If someone doesn't agree with your personal believes that does not make them a troll.

 

 

 

 

What a shock this thread turned into an us vs. them thread. Cops saying cops did good, regular citizens saying it seemed excessive. Who could have seen this coming? LOL

The misuse of the word troll is really annoying. If someone doesn't agree with your personal believes that does not make them a troll.

 

 

 

 

What a shock this thread turned into an us vs. them thread. Cops saying cops did good, regular citizens saying it seemed excessive. Who could have seen this coming? LOL

 

Yeah I know.

Honestly...if i roll up to a gun job and I see a bunch of rifles in PLAIN VIEW most likely both subjects are getting cuffed until I deem the site safe. Sorry if you feel violated but it's a matter of officer safety. I don't know you so I don't trust you.

 

Get off the koolaid. I guess officer safety is the paramount thing in the world to you.

How's about citizens safety? Guess what the citizen doesn't know you either so I guess it would be okay if everyone handcuffed you until they could determine you were not a threat.

 

Police work is inherently dangerous, of getting home safe is your primary goal in life, change careers.

 

 

 

Get off the koolaid. I guess officer safety is the paramount thing in the world to you.

How's about citizens safety? Guess what the citizen doesn't know you either so I guess it would be okay if everyone handcuffed you until they could determine you were not a threat.

 

Police work is inherently dangerous, of getting home safe is your primary goal in life, change careers.

 

Whatever...talk to any cop and officer safety is paramount. If I get hurt then I can't do my job to keep citizens safe.

Trusting someone or not you have to use some logic, if OP and friend were a good distance from their truck with guns on the tailgate and were reasonable distance from the officers and had their hands in the air. Their ability to be a serious threat is drastically reduced. There is no reason these cops had to raise their guns to lethal level and definitely do not need fingers on triggers. There is nothing in that position these guys could have done where the cops would not have been able to shoot first.

 

A few posts back OP even said one of the young female cops was shaking from adrenaline that shaking can easily transfer into a accidental discharge with a finger on trigger. Sounds like these cops need a bit more crisis training and threat assessment training, I understand safety and security are top priority but being realistic about the situations and realizing the point of tactical advantage should be held with high regard as well.

 

 

Whatever...talk to any cop and officer safety is paramount. If I get hurt then I can't do my job to keep citizens safe.

Keep us safe by threatening our lives ( point a loaded rifle at us) and handcuffing us for no reason other than to assure your safety.

No thanks.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/justice/kansas-officers-killed/index.html

Everyone get over themselves..We all want to go home at night..we dont know what anyone we encounter is capable of..happens everyday..Not gonna come on a scene where weapons are displayed and say..hey those guys look cool.. Lets just take a walk over there and say hello.. And im also NOT saying..hey lets go violate some rights..some of you guys are delusional with the police are here to screw 2a people theories..but we always end up back on cop salaries which just reinforce the thought that it means nothing about tactics..just vitrial over cops in general..so i wont apologize for pointing a gun at someone whom i dont know , WHO is holding a gun..

As long as the gun is pointed at an individual there is no issue, individuals are trolls, its not like the cop is pointing it at society, which is who they work for, along with the politicians. When you trolls talk about individual rights you sound like lawyers, dont you know whats important is society and public unions, not you trolls, communists understand this perfectly. Happy holidays!

 

 

The way the law views it is that a homeowner doesn't have a duty to act ...the officer does even at home. Is the law unfair..yes but until it changes that the way I goes.

 

 

Stop with the whiny citizen who pays their salary bull...that same old story gets old. Try something new

 

Did cops start getting paid from private funding lately or something?

Whatever...talk to any cop and officer safety is paramount. If I get hurt then I can't do my job to keep citizens safe.

....this may be why NJ gun laws are so restrictive.  Officer safety is paramount to citizen safety.

 

 

Whatever...talk to any cop and officer safety is paramount. If I get hurt then I can't do my job to keep citizens safe.

 

 

 

Whatever...talk to any cop and officer safety is paramount. If I get hurt then I can't do my job to keep citizens safe.

 

No, I thought if you got hurt you couldn't get you 20 years and get out on your not privately funded pension?

 

Seriously though. No guns should have been drawn on those guys. Cuff em and secure the site, fine, but pointing a gun at someone means you can and may end their life. Extremely excessive in this case. Call me a troll if you like, but not all police are Billy Goats either.

More misuse of the word troll on here. It is now a convenient pejorative to describe people you don't like.

 

I personally don't take issue with being on the property, I don't take issue with securing the people away from weapons. After reading what Griz and BLF wrote, I'm eased on the issue of drawing. However, I fail to see how pointing a weapon at the vitals of a citizen who is not in a threatening posture and not even given the chance Ito be under control is appropriate. You yourself BLF said low ready. These officers were not giving instructions at low ready. They were eyes on target, fingers on the trigger.

 

Yet, while the anti cop folks are coming out with their typical nonsense, the LEO members again come to the blanket defense of officers who appear to be party to some wrongdoing. You're even going so far as to say that you would do the same thing. I don't think this is true because you already said you wouldn't (low ready)

 

Part of the publics frustration with the police is the manner with which many seem to blindly back whatever a cop does. Because there is a fear that if you don't then when your ass is on the line that you won't have anyone backing you up. I refer to the inherent hostility towards IA.

 

I'm a cop LOVER! And based upon the experience of the op, I think the officers on scene unduly threatened the life of an innocent person.

Bailing out of this thread..to many armchair tacticians , foil hatters and people completely obsessed with police pensions....i thought the initial OP states that all parties walked away unharmed and went about their business after situation was over..If desired ask to speak to the Chief..explain to him your qualifications in police tactics..ask for a dry erase board and diagram how you would have your SERVANT police officers handle the situation..then remind him again that he and his men work for you and that youre unhappy that in the end everybody went home safe and on with their lives..

I think Woodentoe makes a great point. BLF said low ready and these were aimed with fingers on a trigger...huge difference. Most aren't arguing going onto the property and checking things out. I think low ready is fine considering the officers should be ready but the OP walked away from the guns in a non-threatening manor.

 

On the public worker salary issue, as a teacher I here the same thing. You pay taxes, your taxes go to pay for services. Education and police are some of those services. You don't pay out salary you pay for those services. If you indeed "pay his salary" I'm wondering when the last time you mailed him a check was?

More misuse of the word troll on here. It is now a convenient pejorative to describe people you don't like.

 

I personally don't take issue with being on the property, I don't take issue with securing the people away from weapons. After reading what Griz and BLF wrote, I'm eased on the issue of drawing. However, I fail to see how pointing a weapon at the vitals of a citizen who is not in a threatening posture and not even given the chance Ito be under control is appropriate. You yourself BLF said low ready. These officers were not giving instructions at low ready. They were eyes on target, fingers on the trigger.

 

Yet, while the anti cop folks are coming out with their typical nonsense, the LEO members again come to the blanket defense of officers who appear to be party to some wrongdoing. You're even going so far as to say that you would do the same thing. I don't think this is true because you already said you wouldn't (low ready)

 

Part of the publics frustration with the police is the manner with which many seem to blindly back whatever a cop does. Because there is a fear that if you don't then when your ass is on the line that you won't have anyone backing you up. I refer to the inherent hostility towards IA.

 

I'm a cop LOVER! And based upon the experience of the op, I think the officers on scene unduly threatened the life of an innocent person.

 

 

Very nicely said.

You're all Trolls..

 

There i said it.

 

 

For those talking about salaries and pensions. Here is some info for you

 

http://www.nj.com/news/bythenumbers/

 

You can see how tax dollars you pay to your specific town are used. Must be nice to have the pensions some people have.

So, lets sum this up. OP was exercising his 2A right and had his 4A right stripped so he's using his 1A right on here?

So, lets sum this up. OP was exercising his 2A right and had his 4A right stripped so he's using his 1A right on here?

 

An Internet forum isn't protected speech since it is an entity owned and operated by a third party. It is a testament to Maks that open discourse is present here, but denying that discourse isn't an infringement of 1A. But, I smell what you're cooking.

 

Police work is inherently dangerous, of getting home safe is your primary goal in life, change careers.

 

This has to be one of the most stupid statements I've ever seen. I suppose you feel the same way about all our military, firefighters and rescue personnel.

This has to be one of the most stupid statements I've ever seen. I suppose you feel the same way about all our military, firefighters and rescue personnel.

 

Yes as a matter of fact I do. The dangers did not all of a sudden pop up after you signed up. You knew the dangers going in.

 

Examples:

Cop chases a junkie who just shot 2 people for fix money.

Soldier/Marine charges a machine gun nest to toss a grenade.

Firefighter runs into a burning building to try and save a 2 year old on the 4th floor.

Paramedic tries to stop the bleeding of a stab victim who has Aids.

 

All the above are NOT behaviors that are in line with getting home at night. The people take the risk for whatever drives them. And more power to them for it.

 

Danger too much for you change careers. Very simple.

 

Yes as a matter of fact I do. The dangers did not all of a sudden pop up after you signed up. You knew the dangers going in.

 

Examples:

Cop chases a junkie who just shot 2 people for fix money.

Soldier/Marine charges a machine gun nest to toss a grenade.

Firefighter runs into a burning building to try and save a 2 year old on the 4th floor.

Paramedic tries to stop the bleeding of a stab victim who has Aids.

 

All the above are NOT behaviors that are in line with getting home at night. The people take the risk for whatever drives them. And more power to them for it.

 

Danger too much for you change careers. Very simple.

 

Just because it's part of my career doesn't mean I should run around with full disregard for my safety or those around me.

Just because it's part of my career doesn't mean I should run around with full disregard for my safety or those around me.

 

Never said you should. You should always try to be safe. But like I said the profession you chose is inherently dangerous. If "Getting home safe" is on the top of your list you chose the wrong profession.

Of course it is...it is for any dangerous job. Whatever...think what you want I will continue to do my job well and in a safe manner. I'm not arguing semantics anymore.

Of course it is...it is for any dangerous job. Whatever...think what you want I will continue to do my job well and in a safe manner. I'm not arguing semantics anymore.

 

PeteF just doesn't like police because he's been "wronged' in some way...

 

 

PeteF - Police are never the aggressors. If they deem everything to be in order, they leave you alone!