When we complain about the miserable status of the gun owners in NJ, we agree that more people should be involved in shooting.  Ranges like GFH are doing exactly this, they try to attract new shooters.  Rental is not "just business" it is a political action, if I may say so.  I don't understand why so many of us against rentals.

Suicides - sad but unavoidable.  Maybe some extra measures can be taken, but rentals must go on.

Yes X1000.  No one does more in this state (and beyond) for gun rights than Anthony.  While he is certainly a very good businessman, my impression of him is that he has an awful lot of integrity and really goes the extra mile for the cause.  There aren't many people around who can do what he is doing or who are willing to try.  I sincerely hope that there is zero legal trouble for his range or any of the others.  They certainly don't deserve it.  

Realistic Math:

X million visitors divided by Y suicides equals less than the Z threshold.

(insert your own numbers and/or meaning)

Yes X1000.  No one does more in this state (and beyond) for gun rights than Anthony.  While he is certainly a very good businessman, my impression of him is that he has an awful lot of integrity and really goes the extra mile for the cause.  There aren't many people around who can do what he is doing or who are willing to try.  I sincerely hope that there is zero legal trouble for his range or any of the others.  They certainly don't deserve it.  

As a Gold member of GFH since they opened,  I wholeheartedly agree 100% with the above post.  Anthony does not deserve this after all he has done for this community.  My condolences are for Anthony.  If you are going to rent,  please be aware that there are other people watching you besides RSO's.  "I" am also watching your gun handling skills.  Do not ever try to point anything my way or ANY way except downrange. I might not shoot you but you might wind up with at least an earful.  I value this sport immensely  and some idiot is not going to ruin it for me.

As a Gold member of GFH since they opened, I wholeheartedly agree 100% with the above post. Anthony does not deserve this after all he has done for this community. My condolences are for Anthony. If you are going to rent, please be aware that there are other people watching you besides RSO's. "I" am also watching your gun handling skills. Do not ever try to point anything my way or ANY way except downrange. I might not shoot you but you might wind up with at least an earful. I value this sport immensely and some idiot is not going to ruin it for me.

I'm not even a member but agree he does a ton for the whole community. And the renters is a pathway to new shooters and more people supporting us. Maybe reviewing policy will help maybe not. But that's his decision to make.

He has like 50 employees there. Fucking 50!! How many employees does buller hole or Paterson gun smithing have? That fuckinh basement is considered a range? Gimme a beak. BH and Paterson shouldn't even be merioned in the same breathe as GFH.

 

Anybody who tries to calculate how mixh GFH makes, especially if you have never even been to the place is not worth even replying to.

 

50 employees.

For this who want more restrictions here ya go

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/32049842/outrage-as-kids-allowed-to-shoot-guns-at-south-australian-firing-range/#page1

Can't they just put up some "This is a Suicide-Free Facility" signs?  That should stop this.

 

Gallows humor aside, this sucks, but it's not unique to anything that Woodland Park is doing.  RTSP has had two suicides as well, IIRC.

 

Not sure what the solution is, other than to have renters start operating rental firearms via something like this:

 

 

as much as i hate to say it........look at that gun range that opened up in austrailia. with the gun basically chained facing forward..........let that be the ONLY way for first time renters........

With just 20 ports and 90 people per hour walking through, even if you arrived at opening and they enforced a one-hour limit the wait would be > an hour. By 2pm the wait would be five hours. I would consider running blind buck naked onto Rte 80 if I had to wait that long.

 

(Plug for my favorite outdoor range deleted out of respect).

If the member line empties they'll take non-members and vice versa. What's the big deal anyway? People paid a fee and they are getting a service. I don't get the issue. Platinum members jump the wait line for poet time. They pay 2500 / year for that privilege. I have no issue with that either.

So why do the ranges need to do something like chaining a gun up?  Is it to keep the person alive?  Or to make sure they go somewhere else to kill themselves?

 

 

I don't see that ranges need to do much of anything differently.  No more than NJ Transit needs to stop running it's trains.

 

 

IF... something needed to be done, and it would be according to the judgement of the business owner, not the gov't, the only thing I can think of that would keep suicides to a minimum at ranges would be to not rent a firearm to anyone that doesn't already possess one.  Even that is no guarantee, but it would make it unlikely someone who wanted to kill them selves with a gun would do it at a range.

If the member line empties they'll take non-members and vice versa. What's the big deal anyway? People paid a fee and they are getting a service. I don't get the issue. Platinum members jump the wait line for poet time. They pay 2500 / year for that privilege. I have no issue with that either.

 

quoted the wrong post.

IMO,

 

Bring in a personal gun, rent a gun.

 

No personal gun, rent with cables & RO babysitter.

 

But I also wouldn't mind if you brought in your own gun that they rent to single shooters.  I pretty much always go on my own and can never rent.

We should just Designate the Pinelands New Jerseys Aokigahara. (Japans suicide forest)

 

If you wanna kill yourself stop making it the problem of range owners and or the people that had to witness it.

IMO,

 

Bring in a personal gun, rent a gun.

 

No personal gun, rent with cables & RO babysitter.

 

But I also wouldn't mind if you brought in your own gun that they rent to single shooters.  I pretty much always go on my own and can never rent.

 

I would not wanna be the RO Babysitter in that kind of situation.  

So why do the ranges need to do something like chaining a gun up?  Is it to keep the person alive?  Or to make sure they go somewhere else to kill themselves?

 

 

I would think its for the Safety of the other customers and to protect themselves from law suits and having to deal with this mess.

Unfortunately in the current political climate we are effectively telling people if they go for help, they will lose some rights so we encourage them not to seek medical help.

 

Somethings in life (or death) don't have solutions (especially government solutions which are sometimes worse then the problem they were supposed to fix).

 

Guns will be looked as the problem but they really have nothing to do with it.

 

You're right.

 

It's funny...  well.. not "funny".. but bizarre.... Mothers can abandon their newborns with no strings attached.  Drug addicts can get free needles with no questions asked.  But someone needing help with an issue like this is branded, possibly for life, as a mentally unstable person.  While some may actually be unstable for a long time or for life, I'd be willing to bet ANY human being under tremendous stress will have a hard time dealing with it.  But it doesn't mean they need to be labelled as some sort of risk for life.

 

Difficult problem to address.  You don't want the German Pilot that flew into the mountain to be flying you around, but just because someone is distraught, doesn't mean they are going to be distraught for life.

I would think its for the Safety of the other customers and to protect themselves from law suits and having to deal with this mess.

I would rather than see them chain guns have them install ballistic doors on the back of the port, that would protect all of us from crazy people.  At least that way if someone wanted to off themselves they would not shoot someone else.  It would also protect against a crazy that might decide to shoot other people.

I would think its for the Safety of the other customers and to protect themselves from law suits and having to deal with this mess.

 

Right.

 

I agree and think it's what ranges should be concerned about.  They can't be the guardians protecting people from killing themselves.  But they can protect themselves and their customers that aren't planning on taking their own life.

I would rather than see them chain guns have them install ballistic doors on the back of the port, that would protect all of us from crazy people.  At least that way if someone wanted to off themselves they would not shoot someone else.  It would also protect against a crazy that might decide to shoot other people.

Agree

Wait, they allow 12 year olds to drive in Australia?

 

I don't want to hear any advice from Australia regarding guns or how to use them. That country is dead to me

So why do the ranges need to do something like chaining a gun up?  Is it to keep the person alive?  Or to make sure they go somewhere else to kill themselves?

 

 

I don't see that ranges need to do much of anything differently.  No more than NJ Transit needs to stop running it's trains.

 

 

IF... something needed to be done, and it would be according to the judgement of the business owner, not the gov't, the only thing I can think of that would keep suicides to a minimum at ranges would be to not rent a firearm to anyone that doesn't already possess one.  Even that is no guarantee, but it would make it unlikely someone who wanted to kill them selves with a gun would do it at a range.

Well for once we agree on something. World must be coming to an end...

 

I went into this thinking the range was at fault and needed to change. After reading all of the comments here, I've changed my mind and admit I was wrong. The ranges shouldn't do a damn thing differently. Ppl should be able to rent guns freely. It brings in new shooters and helps to decide on a future purchase. It's not the fault of the range that some ppl are disturbed and want to end their lives. As I mentioned earlier, this issue is not about guns anymore than it was in newtown or any other crime scene. We have a mental health crisis in this country that needs to be addressed. Changing range rules or adding restrictions won't stop some idiot from doing himself in. He'll just find another way, and in the case of that German pilot, he might take others with him

IMO,

 

Bring in a personal gun, rent a gun.

 

No personal gun, rent with cables & RO babysitter.

 

But I also wouldn't mind if you brought in your own gun that they rent to single shooters.  I pretty much always go on my own and can never rent.

 

If I own a gun I probably have a FPID so I can shoot alone anyway.

You're right.

 

It's funny...  well.. not "funny".. but bizarre.... Mothers can abandon their newborns with no strings attached.  Drug addicts can get free needles with no questions asked.  But someone needing help with an issue like this is branded, possibly for life, as a mentally unstable person.  While some may actually be unstable for a long time or for life, I'd be willing to bet ANY human being under tremendous stress will have a hard time dealing with it.  But it doesn't mean they need to be labelled as some sort of risk for life.

 

Difficult problem to address.  You don't want the German Pilot that flew into the mountain to be flying you around, but just because someone is distraught, doesn't mean they are going to be distraught for life.

This being a gun forum we tend to think the entire universe revolves around that issue. Would you give a gun to someone who told his doctor he felt 24/7 like killing himself, or had fantasies about murdering school children?  Yeah yeah his doctor is "anti-gun" and the gestapo is just itching to take away his guns. I'll grant that.

 

Would you go shooting with such a person? Would you hire them as a crossing guard or daycare worker? Would you lend them your handgun? Let's start from there, and with not too much extrapolation you have the laws regarding guns and mental health.

I would rather than see them chain guns have them install ballistic doors on the back of the port, that would protect all of us from crazy people.  At least that way if someone wanted to off themselves they would not shoot someone else.  It would also protect against a crazy that might decide to shoot other people.

Then the news will proclaim the range has built in" suicide booths "  and it all goes to shit....

Then the news will proclaim the range has built in" suicide booths "  and it all goes to shit....

It's just sad.  Sad for the family of the guy who offed himself, sad for the business owner, sad for the witnesses. 

 

A relative of mine jumped of the GWB in January.  Its just sad.

This being a gun forum we tend to think the entire universe revolves around that issue. Would you give a gun to someone who told his doctor he felt 24/7 like killing himself, or had fantasies about murdering school children?  Yeah yeah his doctor is "anti-gun" and the gestapo is just itching to take away his guns. I'll grant that.

 

Would you go shooting with such a person? Would you hire them as a crossing guard or daycare worker? Would you lend them your handgun? Let's start from there, and with not too much extrapolation you have the laws regarding guns and mental health.

 

If a person you know is currently having "issues" that you are aware of, then no. Of course not.  You're not going to hand him or her a gun. I have an old friend that I believe has had a long history of mental health problems.  Given that I know that... and I'm not an expert on the subject.. but am concerned about and unsure about how he would behave.... I will not invite him shooting anywhere.   Just as I wouldn't hand someone that just soaked themselves in gasoline a lit cigarette.  We should have the ability to evaluate at least some risks.

 

But if a person was depressed over the loss of a loved one..spouse for example... and spoke of not being able to go one alone... no.   Not giving them a gun.  Then... 10 years have passed...or however many... and they have appeared to move on. Are dating someone, seem happy.  Do I ask them if they'd like to learn how to shoot clays?  Sure.  Why not?

Gun For Hire's web site gives a slightly different picture (although it might not be up to date).

 

http://gunforhire.com/first-time-shooting/

 

Come on in and experience it for yourself or you could ask any of the previous 104,346 visitors!

as much as i hate to say it........look at that gun range that opened up in austrailia. with the gun basically chained facing forward..........let that be the ONLY way for first time renters........

I hope you're joking and I simply didn't get the humor. 

 

Gun For Hire's web site gives a slightly different picture (although it might not be up to date).

 

http://gunforhire.com/first-time-shooting/

 

Come on in and experience it for yourself or you could ask any of the previous 104,346 visitors!

 

I don't see that number anywhere on that page but it's, let's say, more than ten times as believable as 1.2 million. 

Wait - lemme see if this is what is being said - because I do not see the math working - but then again I am not a mathematician... 

 

365 x 4 = 1,460 days assuming no closures etc.

 

1,200,000 stated visitors / 1460 days = 821.92 visitors per day

 

821.92 people a day, every day for four years - I cannot see that being possible - it might !

 

I have never been there and assuming there are running 25 lanes - and open 12 hours a day - that is 25 X 12 = 300 hours of lanes available for a 1 hr period over 12 hours -

 

How does the math works, if each person has a one hour slot or even half hour slot that means that they can only handle 300(@1hr) or 600(@1/2hr) in the 12 hr period.

 

However, if they get 1,200,000 in four years how many are NJ centric that is the demographic I would like to see..........

Nick, somebody already crunched the numbers and illustrated some of the possible, or should I say impossible, scenarios. I wonder who  

 

FYI they're open 58 hours/week and have 19 ports. But don't worry the guy who supplied the 1.2 million figure was "privy" to special information that nobody else has. And I mean nobody. He also owns a unicorn farm in Wantage.