http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2016/07/woman_who_jumped_from_gwb_identifed_as_clifton_res.html

 

Another gwb jumper on Wednesday night

More jumpers in 7 months than range shooters in 3 years? And they are trying to make something of it? Sheesh.

NJ.com video to accompany the news story is out - see the players talking (Manny at Bullet Hole, Nappen, Roubian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD-gMdLOQGk

 

BTW, I went to the GFH/Woodland Park range for the first time ever last night as a walk-in/non-member (I didn't do any rentals).  Hands down the best facilities and best-run indoor range I've been to yet.  Guess I picked a good time as I was able to go right from registration to a port without any wait.

 

I'd say a little less than half of the shooters on the line were women, and a I saw a group of just women come in to do rentals which I've never seen at another range.  It was really encouraging to see - say what you want about the danger of rentals, but I believe they are definitely making it easier for Jane & John Q. Public to get hands-on exposure to firearms which is crucial to combating anti-gun b.s. and spin.

Here we go again dividing us against ourselves and conquering.  If we can all be on the same page we will never succeed.  This is why i feel this is the next low hanging fruit for politicians, saving one life today, killing hundreds tomorrow.

There are some good points in that video, both for rentals and against.

I can tell you that if I was in my bay shooting, I would prefer other members next to me shooting, not someone off the street who just rented.

We do not need anymore government regulation or laws pertaining to gun ranges. This is not an epidemic. However it may not be a bad idea for range owners to install the chain system referenced earlier and require that all non gun owning novice renters use it. It would prevent someone from turning the gun on themselves and even more importantly prevent someone from swinging a loaded gun around and pointing it at me. It happened more than once at the old Brick Armory.

 

This would be something range owners do voluntarily. Anyone with a FID and their own handgun doesn't have to use tether even if they are renting a handgun. Anyone that comes in with no FID and thus no handgun of their own has to use tether system. Ranges could feel comfortable again allowing single individuals to come in and rent a handgun, or they can still require rentals in two. It's their business so their rules.

 

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NJ.com video to accompany the news story is out - see the players talking (Manny at Bullet Hole, Nappen, Roubian)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD-gMdLOQGk

 

BTW, I went to the GFH/Woodland Park range for the first time ever last night as a walk-in/non-member (I didn't do any rentals).  Hands down the best facilities and best-run indoor range I've been to yet.  Guess I picked a good time as I was able to go right from registration to a port without any wait.

 

I'd say a little less than half of the shooters on the line were women, and a I saw a group of just women come in to do rentals which I've never seen at another range.  It was really encouraging to see - say what you want about the danger of rentals, but I believe they are definitely making it easier for Jane & John Q. Public to get hands-on exposure to firearms which is crucial to combating anti-gun b.s. and spin.

In the video (which was well balanced IMO) Ever Nappin' said that the positive societal benefit of rentals "far outweighs the suicides." I don't know that "outweighs" is the correct term when you're talking about intentional deaths. 

 

How would the tone of this discussion change if instead of suicide the subject was murder?

 

BTW the Bullet Hole has been in operation for 35 years without rentals (or suicides). Looks like a clean, well-maintained place.  

 

BTW the Bullet Hole has been in operation for 35 years without rentals (or suicides). Looks like a clean, well-maintained place.

 

You obviously haven't been to the bullet hole.

You obviously haven't been to the bullet hole.

LMAO!

You obviously haven't been to the bullet hole.

 

 

This...

You obviously haven't been to the bullet hole.

I said it LOOKED clean and well maintained in the video. It's a city range not a new suburban building or retrofit. As usual, attack the side issue instead of how he was able to stay in business without rentals, which was the point. Ditto my home range.

I said it LOOKED clean and well maintained in the video. It's a city range not a new suburban building or retrofit. As usual, attack the side issue instead of how he was able to stay in business without rentals, which was the point. Ditto my home range.

Regardless of clean or not so clean, I have several times wanted to try out a firearm before plunking down a few hundred bucks. I try more than one pair of work boots, too, and coats, and more.

 Even places that DO rent don't always have every firearm we want, understandably so, but to eliminate all ways to try out something we want to consider spending hard earned money on, is just stupid.  We should have some option. The minimal ( I know, "save even one life") amount of deaths of rental customers is so low as to be a statistically insignificant point.

I don't say the man is wrong to not rent, it's his business, so his choice. But for legislators to try to remove this useful and needed option form other organisations who want to offer rentals is just absurd. 

 

On to of that, some woman from Texas of all places, Marjorie Clifton, is saying we should not only have background checks, but a 3 DAY WAITING PERIOD to rent!!! Is she really serious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thl-PGzkCDY

I'm gonna end this posting now, before I write something I really should wait till I'm calmer to decide on posting or not. Cooler heads must PREVAIL.

 

BTW the Bullet Hole has been in operation for 35 years without rentals (or suicides). Looks like a clean, well-maintained place.  

 

BH is the dirtiest, darkest range I've ever been to.  Even the Bayonne PBA range was cleaner and brighter.

and for the record.....  there has been suicides at BH

and for the record.....  there has been suicides at BH

Please provide a link. I googled this and got suicides at the Bullet Hole...in Missouri. 

 

As for BH being a shit hole I don't know because I've never been there. It didn't look like a dive in the video. He has an "all new" annex, basically a sporting good shop with an archery range. The building looks old but what do you expect in Bellville, rolling lawns and 80 parking spots?

 

He also provides firearm and non-firearm training, and appears to do a decent LEO business.

 

Still nobody answering the question of how he has been able to survive for 35 years without rentals. Instead we're arguing about the decor. Early posters claimed that GFH had mostly renters. They claimed a lot of other stuff as well, like 90 people an hour walking through to shoot at 19 ports. You guys obviously venerate GFH and its owner, but to me the question of the importance of rentals remains unanswered. 

 

And just to repeat I believe rentals should be legal, that to rent or not is a business decision.

Well, I believe he owns the building...... for a long time, paid off..... That helps a lot with the monthly nut.... and lack of real competition for many of those years..... Times are a changing, and he will have to make changes.  

 

As far as the suicide.... I will not comment in the open forum...... feel free to PM me... 

BH is the dirtiest, darkest range I've ever been to. Even the Bayonne PBA range was cleaner and brighter.

I wouldn't even be that nice. What shocks me about BH is that there hasn't been any accidents there. I've never felt unsafe at any range except there. But I haven't been there in years. Since before rtsp and gfh opened so maybe it's better now.

bullet hole had a suicide just s few years ago.... I don't have a link but I remember it happening, gun for hire was still across the street from them at the time.

Why are their rules for males vs females different ?

And bring a friend and you don't need FID card ? Wtf...

This place gonna be trans gender friendly next ?

Why are their rules for males vs females different ?

And bring a friend and you don't need FID card ? Wtf...

This place gonna be trans gender friendly next ?

 

Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate, they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal. Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

Why are their rules for males vs females different ?

And bring a friend and you don't need FID card ? Wtf...

This place gonna be trans gender friendly next ?

 

Do you also get upset when the local bar runs a ladies' night?

Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate, they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal. Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

If the Transgender people who are interested in shooting and want to vote for pro gun policicians, they're welcome.

Why are their rules for males vs females different ?

And bring a friend and you don't need FID card ? Wtf...

This place gonna be trans gender friendly next ?

The transgender crowd has an upside here, they get twice the opportunity to shoot.

 

The old joke used to be that bisexuals were twice as likely to have a date on Saturday nite. 

Why are their rules for males vs females different ?

And bring a friend and you don't need FID card ? Wtf...

This place gonna be trans gender friendly next ?

 

In case you havent noticed our rights especially in NJ are pretty much under attack - if we dont get more females into shooting and talking up to their friends and family, instead of feeding the middle aged white male stereotype of a typical gun owner, our gun rights will be gone by the next generation.

 

We need more women wanting to go shooting, taking their friends who have never gone before, having a good time with it, etc- tearing down the "husband/boyfriend goes shooting while the wife/gf stays home with the kids or cleans the house" - couples should be shooting together, ladies nights at the range is awesome IMO - Anthony knows what we need to expand our gun ownership and interest in this state and I'd say his range has probably done some of the best work in breaking down those walls, if it keeps going in positive directions, who knows, maybe justifiable need will be a thing of the past someday

If the Transgender people who are interested in shooting and want to vote for pro gun policicians, they're welcome.

This. Eventually the gun grabbers will realize the 2a is the great equalizer. If you shoot or support rtba, you are ok with me, regardless or race, gender, age, orientation, whatever

A family that shoots together stays together...

A real shame. My condolences to the family and friends of the victim, and all those who witnessed it.

Maybe the Bullethole should conduct background checks on the people that shoot there.  If you've been there you'll know what I mean.

bullet hole had a suicide just s few years ago.... I don't have a link but I remember it happening, gun for hire was still across the street from them at the time.

 

Yes a guy taking lessons there shot himself so when Manny says it never happened there he's not being completely truthful.  

Yes a guy taking lessons there shot himself so when Manny says it never happened there he's not being completely truthful.  

If he said it never happened and it happened that is not "not being completely truthful" It's flat out lying.

the good old bullethole...  the only range where I'm worried I'll get shot by accident inside or get mugged outside walking to my car along the train tracks.  memories.