A lot of concern about getting negligently shot by another customer at a public indoor range. I know there was that guy that shot his son recently. Hot case down his shirt I think.

 

But does this happen very often?

 

And can rounds penetrate those port barriers? The thing I've seen the most is someone pulling their slide back with the gun parallel to the firing line instead of turning their body.

A lot of concern about getting negligently shot by another customer at a public indoor range. I know there was that guy that shot his son recently. Hot case down his shirt I think.

 

But does this happen very often?

 

And can rounds penetrate those port barriers? The thing I've seen the most is someone pulling their slide back with the gun parallel to the firing line instead of turning their body.

 

Getting muzzle swept doesn't matter if the gun is loaded or not - swept is swept..  I'm pretty sure a bullet will go right through those dividers.  I highly doubt there's AR500 steel between as there's wires and circuitry to run the target movers...

Dividers at GFH are bullet proof.

 

 

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the good old bullethole...  the only range where I'm worried I'll get shot by accident inside or get mugged outside walking to my car along the train tracks.  memories.

 

Plus you really haven't experienced an indoor range until you've spent 45 minutes in a line *inside the range itself, at the back of the ports* waiting for a port to become available.  Do they still do that there?  That was always a swell time.

Or having your targets or ammo stolen off that wooden bench/divider while you're shooting.

 

I wonder if Kip still works there lol

Am i the only one that was shocked at the thought of a waiting period for a temporary transfer suggested by the BH owner? I had to reread the nj.com article twice to be sure i caught it and i still dont believe it.

 

"There should be a three-day cooling off period," Cerca said. "Maybe people (intent on suicide) will stop and think about it. Maybe three days will give them time to change their mind."

 

The law that allows a "temporary transfer" is what permits us to take our wife or friend shooting with us, or a father taking his son/daughter to the range. Without that law there is no training.

 

Or do i completely misunderstand the issue?

Am i the only one that was shocked at the thought of a waiting period for a temporary transfer suggested by the BH owner? I had to reread the nj.com article twice to be sure i caught it and i still dont believe it.

 

"There should be a three-day cooling off period," Cerca said. "Maybe people (intent on suicide) will stop and think about it. Maybe three days will give them time to change their mind."

 

The law that allows a "temporary transfer" is what permits us to take our wife or friend shooting with us, or a father taking his son/daughter to the range. Without that law there is no training.

 

Or do i completely misunderstand the issue?

 

He's for it because it will hurt GFH and other stores' business and therefore increase his.

Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate, they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal. Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

 

 

Interesting..

 

 

 

The transgender crowd has an upside here, they get twice the opportunity to shoot.

 

The old joke used to be that bisexuals were twice as likely to have a date on Saturday nite.

 

Hahah, I am against the transgender BS

 

 

  

In case you havent noticed our rights especially in NJ are pretty much under attack - if we dont get more females into shooting and talking up to their friends and family, instead of feeding the middle aged white male stereotype of a typical gun owner, our gun rights will be gone by the next generation.

 

We need more women wanting to go shooting, taking their friends who have never gone before, having a good time with it, etc- tearing down the "husband/boyfriend goes shooting while the wife/gf stays home with the kids or cleans the house" - couples should be shooting together, ladies nights at the range is awesome IMO - Anthony knows what we need to expand our gun ownership and interest in this state and I'd say his range has probably done some of the best work in breaking down those walls, if it keeps going in positive directions, who knows, maybe justifiable need will be a thing of the past someday

I mostly agree..but determine who needs an FID card by weather you come alone or are a male or female doesn't make a lot of sense, why not just make everyone have an FID card so you know weather or not 1 of the 2 friends coming in who was caught beating up on some girl who was waiting on an overdue permit to come back ?

Or maybe the single female coming in has a past of going bat shit crazy and smashing out ex boyfriends windshield?

 

 

  

Do you also get upset when the local bar runs a ladies' night?

No. I also don't get upset with veterans discounts or senior citizens either incase you were going to ask. But this isn't buy one shot of tequila get 5 free, or 10% off at Home Depot...your handing loaded firearms to people who just played Call of Duty with a 12yr old in China.

Getting muzzle swept doesn't matter if the gun is loaded or not - swept is swept..  I'm pretty sure a bullet will go right through those dividers.  I highly doubt there's AR500 steel between as there's wires and circuitry to run the target movers...

They are bullet proof...the controls are at the front portion in line with the bench set into a steel frame.

 

He's for it because it will hurt GFH and other stores' business and therefore increase his.

 

Is he still butthurt that Anthony doesn't do his training there anymore and has his own range?

Getting muzzle swept doesn't matter if the gun is loaded or not - swept is swept..  I'm pretty sure a bullet will go right through those dividers.  I highly doubt there's AR500 steel between as there's wires and circuitry to run the target movers...

Yes. Of course. Swept is swept.. Did I say something else? I get irate if someone points an airsoft gun at me. Zero tolerance.

 

I'll ask someone at my club about our dividers. Someone on here knows I'm sure.

I was talking about the ones at BH.  RTSP and GFH I'm sure they are.... BH - not so sure.

After reading all the comments and also the post in NJ.com.

 

Its impossible to stop someone who wants to kill themselves..  There is very little a range can do to stop this.

 

1. Assigning each shooter an RO is not really a solution.

 

2. The Australian Chain Gang Solution is i guess Sorta a fix but put a burden on the people who are not going to shoot themselves and also the range since they would need to install the gun for the user and what would stop the person from jumping over the counter and shooting themselves with a chained gun.

 

3. Ending rentals could be a solution... Not a good one as a person who wants to kill themselves  can just bring a friend and use their gun.

 

In a free country nothing is Guaranteed... If you want guarantees just think of the amount of restrictions you would need to put on the "people" to accomplish this.

A range can only do so much before it becomes impossible to keep a range operating with a 100% guarantee no one can commit suicide.

Just as its impossible to stop people from Jumping off bridges. Do we build Trumps wall along all bridges to make it impossible to climb? 

 

Someone determined to off themselves will find a way.  Maybe the reason they choose guns is they find it the most "instant" method of doing this. Pull trigger pain is gone.

 

No gun ranges should be demonized for having a suicide. in the end Gun Ranges and stores need to learn to STFU and stop giving interviews with media outlets that are and have always been anti-gun.. This is not the first time its happened and sadly it wont be the last.   If you get a thrill from seeing your name in print find another method.

He's for it because it will hurt GFH and other stores' business and therefore increase his.

 

That's Pretty Sad..   

 get mugged outside walking to my car along the train tracks.  memories.

 

LOL

A 3 day cool off on a rental? That's friggin insane. I rented a few times before I bought guns

 

 

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I said it LOOKED clean and well maintained in the video. It's a city range not a new suburban building or retrofit. As usual, attack the side issue instead of how he was able to stay in business without rentals, which was the point. Ditto my home range.

 

OK, I'm not attacking you.   I'm letting you know that appearance is deceiving.  It that better?  BTW, There's been a suicide at the Bullet Hole, Manny isn't being truthful.  

Yes. Of course. Swept is swept.. Did I say something else? I get irate if someone points an airsoft gun at me. Zero tolerance.

 

I'll ask someone at my club about our dividers. Someone on here knows I'm sure.

 

More likely someone will trip and fall with all the garbage laying around and accidentally shoot someone.

OK, I'm not attacking you.   I'm letting you know that appearance is deceiving.  It that better?  BTW, There's been a suicide at the Bullet Hole, Manny isn't being truthful.  

You're the third person who's mentioned this. Can you provide a link?

 

PS I don't believe that not renting eliminates suicides. It's a barrier, though, to what is often a spur of the moment decision. 

 

So once again, how has BH survived without rentals? Or does he just not do as well as he could with them?

So once again, how has BH survived without rentals? Or does he just not do as well as he could with them?

 

They were the only game in town for a while.  Plus GFH was right across the street using the range for classes.  They got known for SORA training too.  I'm sure they're suffering now because GFH moved out and started their own facility.  

Well all the anti's can go to bullet hole and shoot their smart guns.

 

 

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PS I don't believe that not renting eliminates suicides. It's a barrier, though, to what is often a spur of the moment decision.

 

I'd argue that the suicides that take place at a range require more premeditation than most.

 

 

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I have to say that bullethole was great while it lasted for me prior to joining GFH.  Their rates were cheap and ammo prices were more than fair (as far as I remember).

Dont you believe it.  Manny and Anthony are the best of friends...

You're the third person who's mentioned this. Can you provide a link?

1) links don't exist to everything. You're old enough to know this.

2) you've heard from multiple sources, let my voice be an additional "I know someone committed suicide at BH."

3) I'd like to ask Mr Cerca what prevents someone from bringing a friend to his range who could easily commit suicide with his buddies gun?

1) links don't exist to everything. You're old enough to know this.

2) you've heard from multiple sources, let my voice be an additional "I know someone committed suicide at BH."

3) I'd like to ask Mr Cerca what prevents someone from bringing a friend to his range who could easily commit suicide with his buddies gun?

I know some of the alleged details which I will not divulge out of respect for the living. I'm not saying it didn't happen because of the trustworthiness of the sources. However it's impossible logically to prove a negative, i.e. that something didn't happen. I can't prove that Al Sharpton is not the reincarnation of Ludwig van Beethoven. I'm certainly old enough to know that from Jesuit high school. Being there's no local news record (that I could find) going back to 2007, the burden of proof is on those who claim it happened, not on me to prove it didn't happen. I've made a calendar note to call Cerca tomorrow. 

Dont you believe it.  Manny and Anthony are the best of friends...

I don't know what their relationship is but they go way back. I'm assuming it's good.

You're the third person who's mentioned this. Can you provide a link?

 

PS I don't believe that not renting eliminates suicides. It's a barrier, though, to what is often a spur of the moment decision.

 

So once again, how has BH survived without rentals? Or does he just not do as well as he could with them?

I don't have a link, but I know someone who was there that day and it's not up to me to give their name here.

 

Make an OPRA request to the Belleville PD.

Not everything has a "link"

I don't think the issue is preventing suicide -- at least it shouldn't be.  It's one of public safety.  It is quite possible that a bystander at the range could be injured or killed when someone decides to shoot themselves. The argument would be that handing a gun to someone at a range where the only other avenue to get your hands on one in this state is to go through the onerous FID/pistol permit process presents an added risk that a rental range could attract unbalanced people looking to hurt themselves or others.  I don't think range rentals should be banned, but that is the relevant issue.