Welcome to hell - previously known as NJ.......

 

Any person that thinks you can make a life here now in this state - based on this kind of attitude - is simply out of their minds.

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Any person that thinks you can make a life here now in this state - based on this kind of attitude - is simply out of their minds.

There are millions of people who can make a life for themselves here in NJ .  It's just that almost all of them are illegal aliens.  It's easy to make a life for yourself when you don't really have to work for all of it because of the unfair advantage the Socialists are handing out by way of housing, free food, free day care (for the anchor babies) free medical, free dental and not having to pay taxes.  Obviously their 2A rights are respected because when they use guns while committing a violent crime (and were unfortunate enough to get caught) the court throws out the gun charges and hides them from ICE..

It makes you wonder, who is paying for all this free shit. 

Honestly, at this point I'd consider maintaining a status quo a win with regard to both the 2A and taxes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

10 minutes ago, xtreme381 said:

Honestly, at this point I'd consider maintaining a status quo a win with regard to both the 2A and taxes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

That's like saying I'd consider the boot of a nazi on my neck a win because he's not kicking me in the balls.  I mean, it could be worse but the "status quo" is still laying on the ground with a nazi boot on your neck.

The snare is in the transport. Assuming you are otherwise law-abiding, the greatest risk is in an auto stop, where the 4A is watered down as opposed to in the home where you have the greatest protection. A range which offers the ability to store your firearms in a locker would be a big plus. Ranges are not required to do spot check locker searches. 

I agree with those that have advocated not trying to stop the legislators, which is not going to work and allow them to overreach. The more onerous the new law is, the better it is for a court challenge. So I would rather see them pass 5 round limit as opposed to 10. It is more likely that 10 will pass muster, but 5 will not.

Compliance is personal decision, depends on how much of a risk taker you are and what your occupation is and how that might be impacted if you get snared 

Ranges can also do legal workaround modifications on their rentals. Cali recently went through the same thing and there are lots of compliance modifications available.

4 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

That's like saying I'd consider the boot of a nazi on my neck a win because he's not kicking me in the balls.  I mean, it could be worse but the "status quo" is still laying on the ground with a nazi boot on your neck.

i like the analogy as long as we remember judges and police unions are licking those boots to a glossy sheen

That's like saying I'd consider the boot of a nazi on my neck a win because he's not kicking me in the balls.  I mean, it could be worse but the "status quo" is still laying on the ground with a nazi boot on your neck.

TBH, in a way that's kind of how I feel. Based on what I've read on this forum and the rhetoric from Murphy and the legislature I feel that we're essentially facing a legislative firing squad. If this goes through as is they're pulling the trigger (no pun intended). Aside from the courts I'm wondering if the better course of action is to keep this thing from getting to his desk until we have a more favorable 2A group in Trenton. That will only happen if Murphy sends this state into financial death spiral. By that point many 2A folks will eventually left for a free state or one more affordable. We have the courts but I haven't seen much progress there in overturning NJs already unconstitutional gun laws.

What options do you see to 1) keep this from becoming law and 2) loosening some of the already crazy restrictions? I'm not being confrontational all, just genuinely curious of the options. Since joining the 2A community it's been one of the most welcoming communities I've ever been a part of.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

One tactic I've tried to employ given my limited resources and reach is a bit of unconventional warfare by trying to get more people involved in shooting sports by taking them to the range and sharing some education on the sport and community.

The analogy that comes to mind for me is the NJ 2A community is a series of small, loosely organized pockets of resistance facing a very large and powerful force coming at us with a full frontal assault while at the same time waging a psychological campaign of making gun owners out to be crazed fanatics.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

We already have vote early and often in this state, I guess trying to get to all those polling places on election day by public transportation is getting just a bit to much.  

welllll i see if some of those go through i'll not be buying anything as an nj resident any more.

Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong".

21 minutes ago, xtreme381 said:

One tactic I've tried to employ given my limited resources and reach is a bit of unconventional warfare by trying to get more people involved in shooting sports by taking them to the range and sharing some education on the sport and community.

The analogy that comes to mind for me is the NJ 2A community is a series of small, loosely organized pockets of resistance facing a very large and powerful force coming at us with a full frontal assault while at the same time waging a psychological campaign of making gun owners out to be crazed fanatics.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

This is excellent advice...in 1985...

Unfortunately, the 2A community has been largely insular. Largely rural, and largely white. I hate to bring race into this, but it's now going to be a big factor. I know we've all met a Latino/African-American/Asian shooter but there just simply aren't enough. 

You're right, more people needed to be included - decades ago, not now 2 minutes before midnight. 

Demographics are a big factor in legislation and now that the 2A community is 95%+ white, it's going to be a big issue finding support as you become outnumbered. 

This is excellent advice...in 1985...
Unfortunately, the 2A community has been largely insular. Largely rural, and largely white. I hate to bring race into this, but it's now going to be a big factor. I know we've all met a Latino/African-American/Asian shooter but there just simply aren't enough. 
You're right, more people needed to be included - decades ago, not now 2 minutes before midnight. 
Demographics are a big factor in legislation and now that the 2A community is 95%+ white, it's going to be a big issue finding support as you become outnumbered. 

I hear ya but I've only been a part of the 2A community for the past few years since I purchased my first pistol. In 85 I was learning to tie my shoes lol. I'm still thinking long term that if we can get enough people in this state involved in the 2A over time we could make gun control a poison pill or political 3rd rail for any politician. Admittedly it's a long term strategy and not a tactical solution to the immediate problem of this bill.

Using the military analogy I offered up earlier what are some of the immediate tactics we can employ to counter the opposing force we face now? Counter the message with an aggressive pro 2A for EVERYBODY marketing campaign (the NRA has this but doesn't seem to be winning)? Lawsuits? Protests? Again, I'm open to ideas.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

2 minutes ago, xtreme381 said:

I hear ya but I've only been a part of the 2A community for the past few years since I purchased my first pistol. In 85 I was learning to tie my shoes lol. I'm still thinking long term that if we can get enough people in this state involved in the 2A over time we could make gun control a poison pill or political 3rd rail for any politician. Admittedly it's a long term strategy and not a tactical solution to the immediate problem of this bill.

Using the military analogy I offered up earlier what are some of the immediate tactics we can employ to counter the opposing force we face now? Counter the message with an aggressive pro 2A for EVERYBODY marketing campaign (the NRA has this but doesn't seem to be winning)? Lawsuits? Protests? Again, I'm open to ideas.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Protests would be a good start. I don't understand why there aren't any. Everyone else does them and they get what they want in no time.

 

Protests would be a good start. I don't understand why there aren't any. Everyone else does them and they get what they want in no time.
 

I think you're onto something.Why not use some of their tactics against them? If we got a large enough organized, unarmed (I think armed would play into their hands), diverse (to counter the race message), peaceful protest at the state house that could block government functions for a period of time then maybe we could get some traction in Trenton or at the very least get a seat at the table.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

38 minutes ago, mossburger said:

This is excellent advice...in 1985...

Unfortunately, the 2A community has been largely insular. Largely rural, and largely white. I hate to bring race into this, but it's now going to be a big factor. I know we've all met a Latino/African-American/Asian shooter but there just simply aren't enough. 

You're right, more people needed to be included - decades ago, not now 2 minutes before midnight. 

Demographics are a big factor in legislation and now that the 2A community is 95%+ white, it's going to be a big issue finding support as you become outnumbered. 

If it does not hurt us to be inclusive, to help newbies. It helps us...

not the answer now, not the grail. But I would not say to stop

13 minutes ago, xtreme381 said:

I think you're onto something.Why not use some of their tactics against them? If we got a large enough organized, unarmed (I think armed would play into their hands), diverse (to counter the race message), peaceful protest at the state house that could block government functions for a period of time then maybe we could get some traction in Trenton or at the very least get a seat at the table.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

It has been done recently, unfortunately, nothing changed. Liberal platform is guns are bad..

1 hour ago, xtreme381 said:

I think you're onto something.Why not use some of their tactics against them? If we got a large enough organized, unarmed (I think armed would play into their hands), diverse (to counter the race message), peaceful protest at the state house that could block government functions for a period of time then maybe we could get some traction in Trenton or at the very least get a seat at the table.

Sent from my SM-G955U using 

This could definitely work.

1 hour ago, xtreme381 said:

I think you're onto something.Why not use some of their tactics against them? If we got a large enough organized, unarmed (I think armed would play into their hands), diverse (to counter the race message), peaceful protest at the state house that could block government functions for a period of time then maybe we could get some traction in Trenton or at the very least get a seat at the table.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

*I messed up the quote, but again, that coukd work.

also from his speach:

To my partners in the legislature: I ask you to send me the bills, among others, to reaffirm our support for women's health and Planned Parenthood; to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour; to promote equal pay for women; to give every worker the peace of mind of earned sick leave; to tear down barriers to voting; and, to strengthen our gun laws.

And, I promise you now that they will be met with a signing ceremony instead of a veto pen.

what the hell does that mean?

 

That means businesses will be leaving NJ en masse or more will pay their employees under the table.

 

 

Also means illegals will be voting more than ever in NJ.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

That means businesses will be leaving NJ en masse or more will pay their employees under the table.

 

 

Also means illegals will be voting more than ever in NJ.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

All the more reason to leave; I wish I could leave this shit hole.

2 hours ago, Berettafan said:

Protests would be a good start. I don't understand why there aren't any. Everyone else does them and they get what they want in no time.

 

They don't work.....when people queue upon Trenton in rain and snow....  and lawmakers look out windows at you and laugh....  been there done that a lot of us got tshirts.....

 

No offense meant but noob the only thing these jackboot thugs will i understand is being slapped with subpoenas injunctions and suits....  calling....letters ....marches mean diddlysquat......

25 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

They don't work.....when people queue upon Trenton in rain and snow....  and lawmakers look out windows at you and laugh....  been there done that a lot of us got tshirts.....

If 100K 2A rights activists showed up in Trenton, on the same day (that's important)  it would be HUGE, uge even.  We would have National attention.  Problem is, showing up to demand our rights is too much of a bother.

Actually, that's wrong.  If the NRA, GOA, Second Amendment Foundation, JPFO, NAGR, ... The list goes on.  There are actually 15 National 2A organizations  And then all the NJ 2A groups.  If they could all get together and put all of their expertise and some money into it.  Really make an effort to contact all NJ gun owners and organize Supreme Court worthy law suits....  If they did that, they could get 100K 2A supporters in Trenton.

It's absolutely doable, but, sadly, it will probably never happen.  We need leadership, without it there is very little will..

I have to say.  Being forced to join the NRA so you can join a club to use their range, well, it sorta feels like taxation without representation.  You are forced to pay, if you want to join the range, but you get nothing from the NRA in return except some stickers and a piece of made in china crap.  If we can't make Trenton sweat, maybe we need to make the NRA sweat.  Call them out for their inaction in NJ.

Let's all hope for the best, hopefully Murphy sees the inside of a cell soon.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/16/dhs-asked-prosecutors-to-consider-charging-sanctuary-city-leaders.html

 

10 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

If 100K 2A rights activists showed up in Trenton, on the same day (that's important)  it would be HUGE, uge even.  We would have National attention.  Problem is, showing up to demand our rights is too much of a bother.

Actually, that's wrong.  If the NRA, GOA, Second Amendment Foundation, JPFO, NAGR, ... The list goes on.  There are actually 15 National 2A organizations  And then all the NJ 2A groups.  If they could all get together and put all of their expertise and some money into it.  Really make an effort to contact all NJ gun owners and organize Supreme Court worthy law suits....  If they did that, they could get 100K 2A supporters in Trenton.

It's absolutely doable, but, sadly, it will probably never happen.  We need leadership, without it there is very little will..

I have to say.  Being forced to join the NRA so you can join a club to use their range, well, it sorta feels like taxation without representation.  You are forced to pay, if you want to join the range, but you get nothing from the NRA in return except some stickers and a piece of made in china crap.  If we can't make Trenton sweat, maybe we need to make the NRA sweat.  Call them out for their inaction in NJ.

if every nj member canceled their membership effective immediately.......they wouldn't even notice.

9 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

if every nj member canceled their membership effective immediately.......they wouldn't even notice.

Yeah, but if every NJ member quits every NJ range that requires NRA membership, then they will notice.  

10 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

If 100K 2A rights activists showed up in Trenton, on the same day (that's important)  it would be HUGE, uge even.  We would have National attention.  Problem is, showing up to demand our rights is too much of a bother.

Actually, that's wrong.  If the NRA, GOA, Second Amendment Foundation, JPFO, NAGR, ... The list goes on.  There are actually 15 National 2A organizations  And then all the NJ 2A groups.  If they could all get together and put all of their expertise and some money into it.  Really make an effort to contact all NJ gun owners and organize Supreme Court worthy law suits....  If they did that, they could get 100K 2A supporters in Trenton.

It's absolutely doable, but, sadly, it will probably never happen.  We need leadership, without it there is very little will..

I have to say.  Being forced to join the NRA so you can join a club to use their range, well, it sorta feels like taxation without representation.  You are forced to pay, if you want to join the range, but you get nothing from the NRA in return except some stickers and a piece of made in china crap.  If we can't make Trenton sweat, maybe we need to make the NRA sweat.  Call them out for their inaction in NJ.

I do not disagree but the solution is predicated on many operative words - of which the key one being *IF* - and we all know that if in this state is as sure as a nope not gonna happen.  Wish in one hand and Sh*t in another and see what ya get first.

 

The only solution is to stymie this all with as many legal challenges as possible and hope that they go ape shit with as many egregious items as possible - to bring - here is that if and wishing again - to a higher court.  @capt14k has been right all along.

 

Beyond 2A - and to resonate what @Mrs. Peel has stated there is a very big chance that our property values will tank - based on other times such as taxation etc.  And a very very real converstaion has happened with my wife about selling our home and just renting till we can pop smoke and exfil this unfriendly location.

20 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

if every nj member canceled their membership effective immediately.......they wouldn't even notice.

I'm not suggesting cancelling membership.  But, if all of NJ did cancel their membership, the NRA would surely notice.  It would be a major PR nightmare, LaPierre would go to defcon 4

17 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

I'm not suggesting cancelling membership.  But, if all of NJ did cancel their membership, the NRA would surely notice.  It would be a major PR nightmare, LaPierre would go to defcon 4

I would love not to have an NRA membership but must have one to shoot at my club. I don't think any club/range in NJ will cut ties with the NRA over this. I am afraid the only way we will get satisfaction is through the courts. It makes me sick to think this governor will take away our 2A rights or gut them so bad it won't make a difference that we can have a 5 shot firearm.

26 minutes ago, rtquig said:

I would love not to have an NRA membership but must have one to shoot at my club. I don't think any club/range in NJ will cut ties with the NRA over this. I am afraid the only way we will get satisfaction is through the courts. It makes me sick to think this governor will take away our 2A rights or gut them so bad it won't make a difference that we can have a 5 shot firearm.

That is why I don't join any club that requires me to join the NRA. It's not the NRA in and of itself, even though I cut ties with them a long time ago. I just don't like being part of any organization which requires you to be a member of other organizations, just for the "Honor" of being a member. Screw them.

just outta curiosity......since most of us will be needing to take our stuff to an alt. residence, or a friends in free America......what's some good ranges in pa? that aren't a crazy drive from cherry hill area?