It’s silly but they could further this argument by packaging a research project that would measure if smaller mags lead to less of a, b, c...
That could give this argument some legs because I’m not aware of any studies on mag size and crime stats. Liberals love to argue that the NRA stifled gun research.

1 minute ago, louu said:

I didn't click the link and read all that stuff but it sounds like you guys are saying so I'm operator thinks he's better than us? Does anybody have this guy's email or phone number would like to challenge him to a 3 gun match. I have no training at all, ZERO, and I guarantee I will stomp him by at least 70 seconds. 

609-292-6000

He's awaiting your call.

49 minutes ago, Phiremin said:

I’m guessing they are arguing 15 round magazines are only “dangerous and unusual” in “untrained hands” (us regular citizens can’t be trusted not to just start spraying bullets). And, it would be impractical to train us.

I haven't figured out yet how these 5 additional rounds make an otherwise acceptable firearm something that only the gov't should have..

2 hours ago, Chris1 said:

And that because it takes 8-10 seconds to reload, we would some how need extensive training in large capacity magazines?

 

uhm, I'm not a rocket scientist, but that's almost proves that you NEED high capacity magazines for self defense because a reload could take a very long time in a life threatening situation.

That's exactly what I thought when I read that. He actually makes the case for us that we NEED LCM, because the reload time can be the matter of life or death with a reduced cap. mag.

.

 

33 minutes ago, runcibleman said:

609-292-6000

He's awaiting your call.

Call the governor?

41 minutes ago, runcibleman said:

609-292-6000

He's awaiting your call.

Here's even more information on "expert" Glenn Stanton:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenn-stanton-1a27b558

Amazing that a degree in Landscape Architecture makes you a firearms expert??

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Here's even more information on "expert" Glenn Stanton:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenn-stanton-1a27b558

Amazing that a degree in Landscape Architecture makes you a firearms expert??

This clown needs to be hauled over the coals by the NRA lawyers and our guys.

Personally I think 9 is the right number. Divide by 3 easily. Very isosceles... we can start with 10 though. 7 is jus messy math.

 

” Even in the hands of law abiding... these are dangerous “

If you read the motion in opposition to the injunction filed by the NJAG (http://www.thekaplanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/18cv10507_31.pdf), you'll see that the state paid a consultancy (at the rate of **$900 per hour***) to come up with average number of rounds fired in self defense shootings.
 

Quote

...NERA is being compensated for time spent by me and my team at standard billing rates and for out-of-pocket expenses at cost. NERA currently bills for my time at $900 per hour. 

What kind of high powered research did the $900/hr consultants do to get their stats number of shots fired in self defense shootings? They read all the back columns of  the NRA's "armed citizen":

Quote

... According to this analysis of incidents in the NRA Armed Citizen database, defenders fired 2.2 shots on average. Out of 736 incidents, there were two incidents (0.3% of all incidents), in which the defender was reported to have fired more than 10 bullets. In 18.2% of incidents, the defender did not fire any shots, and simply threatened the offender with a gun. For incidents occurring in the home (56% of total), defenders fired an average of 2.1 shots, and fired no shots in 16.1% of incidents. ...

 

This argument is the same as arguing that since 56% of kitchen fires are put out with a 3 second burst from a fire extinguisher, no extinguisher should have more than 10 seconds of extinguishing capability....

 

 

1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

That's exactly what I thought when I read that. He actually makes the case for us that we NEED LCM, because the reload time can be the matter of life or death with a reduced cap. mag.

.

 

The whole topic of the time it takes to swap mags should be avoided. It’s too easy to turn on its face, no matter what side of the debate you’re on.  If swapping is slow then we say we need more rounds for self defense. They say it gives someone time to escape a shooter. If swapping is fast we say mag size doesn’t matter. They too say mag size doesn’t matter.  It’s a stupid red logical trap. Better off countering with the actual arguments regarding the number of rounds. 

5 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

The whole topic of the time it takes to swap mags should be avoided.

True, it should be avoided because I doubt anyone getting out of bed in the middle of the night that encounters an intruder carries a SECOND mag along with their SD handgun. So, all they have is the current mag in the gun and the maximum number of rounds it holds.

That should be the end of the discussion.

 

15 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

If you read the motion in opposition to the injunction filed by the NJAG (http://www.thekaplanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/18cv10507_31.pdf), you'll see that the state paid a consultancy (at the rate of **$900 per hour***) to come up with average number of rounds fired in self defense shootings.
 

What kind of high powered research did the $900/hr consultants do to get their stats number of shots fired in self defense shootings? They read all the back columns of  the NRA's "armed citizen":

 

This argument is the same as arguing that since 56% of kitchen fires are put out with a 3 second burst from a fire extinguisher, no extinguisher should have more than 10 seconds of extinguishing capability....

 

 

It’s worse. The $900/hr is what NERA billed for just his hours.  He has a “team” that they are being compensated for.   Unless it’s co-ops, that rate is probably at least $200/hr each.   

And their research shows that needing more than 10 rounds does happen.  At roughly 0.03% of the time. Given there are around 100,000 to 2,200,000 DGU a year and NJ has roughly 27% of the population, there should be between 8 and 180 cases a year of a DGU needing more than 10 rounds that occurred in NJ.  Where is my $900?

12 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

.  Where is my $900?

Sorry, this is all we can afford after he put us so deep in debt:

41 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

... According to this analysis of incidents in the NRA Armed Citizen database, defenders fired 2.2 shots on average

Interesting factoid, but totally irrelevant. Heller has already provided instructions as to how we may determine the legality of a firearm. Is the prohibition “longstanding” (no)? Are 15 round magazine in “common use” (yes)? Are 15 round magazine “dangerous and unusual”? (no) 

The state is essentially asking the judge to set aside Heller and write a new law “is it good enough for the average self defense incident”?

The Supreme Court may be able to do that, but a district court must follow precedent 

 

8 hours ago, Zeke said:

Personally I think 9 is the right number. Divide by 3 easily. Very isosceles... we can start with 10 though. 7 is jus messy math.

 

” Even in the hands of law abiding... these are dangerous “

I think you meant equilateral.  Isosceles only has two sides of the same length.  

1 hour ago, Rob0115 said:

I think you meant equilateral.  Isosceles only has two sides of the same length.  

Doesn’t matter. Everyone knows the number of rounds in a mag has to be a prime number... for safety. 

11 hours ago, runcibleman said:

609-292-6000

He's awaiting your call.

should i go in to detail at how it would go if that asshat ever showed up at a 3gun? in short, i could almost guarantee that he'd be proposing laws against that kind of event and equipment within a week.

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

Doesn’t matter. Everyone knows the number of rounds in a mag has to be a prime number... for safety. 

LOL.  

3 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Doesn’t matter. Everyone knows the number of rounds in a mag has to be a prime number... for safety. 

And someday mine will be a magpul D-60

3 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Doesn’t matter. Everyone knows the number of rounds in a mag has to be a prime number... for safety. 

Then I need a 2^77,232,917 − 1 (the largest known prime number) round magazine...   

33 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Then I need a 2^77,232,917 − 1 (the largest known prime number) round magazine...   

I like your thinking.  Even If there are 2^35 (~34 billion) rounds extant, you’ll have plenty of unused magazine capacity! (And the spring won’t take a set if you leave it loaded)

22 hours ago, voyager9 said:

It’s worse. The $900/hr is what NERA billed for just his hours.  He has a “team” that they are being compensated for.   Unless it’s co-ops, that rate is probably at least $200/hr each.   

And their research shows that needing more than 10 rounds does happen.  At roughly 0.03% of the time. Given there are around 100,000 to 2,200,000 DGU a year and NJ has roughly 27% of the population, there should be between 8 and 180 cases a year of a DGU needing more than 10 rounds that occurred in NJ.  Where is my $900?

Standard capacity magazines...If it saves just one life...

Look, I want Large Capacity Magazine training. What's the cost? What if I already have it and can reload under 8 seconds?

 

Does the state of NJ give me free mags then for qualifying?

 

Where do I sign? 

On 7/12/2018 at 4:53 PM, njJoniGuy said:

Has anyone heard anything of today's hearing for Request for Injunction on the 15 to 10 round change in 2C:39?

Inquiring gun-owning minds want to know.

So, it is mid August and no hope is left? Done deal and nothing could help?

Still nothing hu?

 

Crickets. 

The attorneys must have a date,   wonder what the secrecy is all about.       This is being dragged out for a reason.  I would say I'm not sure why but we know it is for the leftists to craft a strategy.    

 I think they know its going to the supreme's no matter how they decide so are they trying to get it there before Cavanaugh  gets confirmed?   

law takes affect Oct 1st,   will cavanaugh be on court in time to rule on this.  

The law takes effect in December, not October.

 

Also the earliest this could make it to the SCUS would be next year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

lol, best case scenario for scotus.... The mag ban law injunction stands. The law dosnt go into effect. Lower court rules with the next year it's constitutional and law goes into effect, and another year for SCOTUS to rule. Courts are slow. Our real hope is Cali beats us to SCOTUS. I don't see either lower court ruling in our favor

It would be nice to have an update from the ANJPC on how the hearings having been going.  From the District Court's docket, the plaintiffs have withdrawn an expert from the NSSF who submitted a declaration attesting to the commonality and sheer number of "LCM," i.e., those in excess of 10 rounds.  No reason given other than plaintiffs state they did not intend to call this witness or rely upon his testimony any longer.  That did not sound good.  I also saw that the State has produced an expert who claims to have trained neophyte soldiers how to shoot pistol who laughably claims that it takes in excess of 10 seconds for inexperienced shooters to swap out a magazine in a semi-automatic handgun.  Obviously the idea is by forcing a sooner need to reload by mandating 10 rd. mags more opportunities will be created for escape from an active shooter.  

The mere fact that Judge Sheridan was willing to make a record before deciding on the preliminary injunction is still a positive step for gun owners, though.  

The docket states that proposed findings of fact for the judge to consider are due in early September.  It stands to reason that a decision would be forthcoming within 30 days or so after that.

My question is simple: Has any live testimony been presented before the judge--that is a hearing. If the only thing that has taken place is an exchange of affidavits---that is not a hearing. What the hell is going on with this?