does any 1 know the exact oal of a 10.3  barrel with a surefire 3 prong pin and welded would be with a milspec buffer tube????

2 hours ago, Jdoug075 said:

does any 1 know the exact oal of a 10.3  barrel with a surefire 3 prong pin and welded would be with a milspec buffer tube????

Doing a little fuzzy math, it should get you to just over 27”

I know you can pin it to a 13.7” barrel to get to 16” or 16.1” so that giving you 2.3-2.4” in added length on any given barrel. With a 10.5” barrel and stock extension, you are at  24.9” so with a pinned SF, you should be at ~27.2”

thx. btw im thinking of doing a geissele mk18 clone-ish build. URG-I Complete, Near Clone, 10.3" Variant, 5.56MM

im gonna need to have the surefire flashider pinned and welded. this should be a LEGIT legal build as far as im concerned.

puting on a sba4 brace and a magpul vfg i found in my junk drawer

if i fall short i will just ad a vltor a5 but i dont think i need too

Nice. You definitely won’t be short with the Surefire. Pics when done!

will do

@Jdoug075

Where’d you find the vltor A5 buffer, been looking around appears, sold out everywhere. 

23 minutes ago, 0Jeep4 said:

@Jdoug075

Where’d you find the vltor A5 buffer, been looking around appears, sold out everywhere. 

for some reason, they have the 7 positions a5 instock everywhere. but NOBODY has the RE-10/A5SR which is the 6 positions, in stock. 

the sba4 brace that i have on my BCM 11.5 build fits almost flush (1/2 inch gap) when fully collapsed with RE-10/A5SR 6 position.

i also have the A5 7 position, but theres an inch or more gap between the brace and the castle nut when fully collapsed.

i bought my RE-10/A5SR 6 postion years ago but forgot where. i just looked every on the internet and its out of stock. dunno why

@Jdoug075

Thanks for the info, just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing it somewhere. 

11 minutes ago, 0Jeep4 said:

@Jdoug075

Thanks for the info, just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing it somewhere. 

correction. the brace does fit flush with the 7 position. just tried it now but it was stiff as hell. plus it does not click in all the way in. you have to jiggle the stock in and out alittle for it to click in the most collapse position. with the 6 position it clicks in smoothly when fully collapsed

i dont know. these  braces are wierd with some extension tubes. u gotta do alittle trial and error to see what fits when you by an A5 extension

 I bought the sb3 with the tube, but I think I’m going to try and do 11.5 no pinned device, so I’ll probably need the extra length from the tube to hit the magical number. I’ll just order a back ordered one and wait on it, see what happens worse case it ends up in the parts pile that somehow is always growing.  

7 minutes ago, 0Jeep4 said:

 I bought the sb3 with the tube, but I think I’m going to try and do 11.5 no pinned device, so I’ll probably need the extra length from the tube to hit the magically number. I’ll just order a back ordered one and wait on it, see what happens worse case it ends up in the parts pile that somehow is always growing.  

ya. my bcm 11.5 came up 25 7/8 oal with a milspec buffer tube. you can get away using the 7 position a5. just when u fully collapse forcefully, you might have to wiggle it out 1/4 inch or so to have it fully click in. with the 6 position though, i can forcefully collapse the stock and it will click in smoothly. kinda hard to explain

buts thats just with the sba4 brace. other braces might be different

Thanks for all the info much appreciated. 

On 10/5/2019 at 6:12 AM, Jdoug075 said:

does any 1 know the exact oal of a 10.3  barrel with a surefire 3 prong pin and welded would be with a milspec buffer tube????

A 10.5 barrel with pinned surefire flash hider with carbine tube will be 26.75. A full 3/4” over. The 10.3 pinned and welded will make it over 26” OAL for sure.

On 10/4/2019 at 1:56 AM, Jdoug075 said:

i did a bcm 11.5 inch build with a milspec receiver ext. got 25 7/8 inch so i was short. i just threw on a vltor a5 buffer system in and now im over 26 inches. didnt need to pin and weld my muzzle device

I was looking at a 11.3 inch barrel with the A5 buffer tube. Will that meet the 26” requirement?

6 hours ago, Vicious said:

I was looking at a 11.3 inch barrel with the A5 buffer tube. Will that meet the 26” requirement?

im at around 26 5/8 with an 11.5. . so im guessing you would just make it over 26 with a .2 inch shorter barrel

On 10/6/2019 at 8:03 AM, 0Jeep4 said:

@Jdoug075

Where’d you find the vltor A5 buffer, been looking around appears, sold out everywhere. 

A5 with buffer is in stock at SKD.

https://www.skdtac.com/VLTOR-A5-Bundle-p/vlt.308.htm

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-12-slant-m-lok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-kit-with-mbus-sight-set-romeo-5.html?trk_msg=M1LRJ4VG7254N1IVFFJMIMMSI0&trk_contact=IKFLIC2RIOJU6H8PQSQCN8CH8S&trk_sid=SSOJ1DEP6UJSC63GHPBM6MULPC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fpsa-10-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-12-slant-m-lok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-kit-with-mbus-sight-set-romeo-5.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal&utm_content=12%3a00+Email

 

Since it is a 10.5 ...I cannot use the buffer tube that they give me so in turn that means I would have to pick up a Vltor a5 and pin and weld the flash hider?!? Or can I just throw on a  epsilon 556sl  with a length of 2.21"? 

15 hours ago, CapGuns&SnapsKid said:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-12-slant-m-lok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-kit-with-mbus-sight-set-romeo-5.html?trk_msg=M1LRJ4VG7254N1IVFFJMIMMSI0&trk_contact=IKFLIC2RIOJU6H8PQSQCN8CH8S&trk_sid=SSOJ1DEP6UJSC63GHPBM6MULPC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fpsa-10-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-12-slant-m-lok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-kit-with-mbus-sight-set-romeo-5.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal&utm_content=12%3a00+Email

 

Since it is a 10.5 ...I cannot use the buffer tube that they give me so in turn that means I would have to pick up a Vltor a5 and pin and weld the flash hider?!? Or can I just throw on a  epsilon 556sl  with a length of 2.21"? 

anything below an 11 or 11.5 inch barrel you would need to pin and weld your muzzle device and just use a standard receiver extension. using a bcm 11.5 with a standard buffer tube got me 25 7/8 of an inch. other 11.5 barrels may be different but thats what i got.

for a 10.5 inch, just using a vltor a5 will not get you to the minimum length.

i would just pin and weld your muzzle device on a 10.5 to get you the length. unless you want the vltor a5 system which is an upgrade.

just be aware of the 2 types of a5. they got the 6 and 7 positions, re a5 and re 10 a5sr respectively

some sba braces may be finicky with the vltor extensions whether it be the 6 or 7 postions so it will be a trial and error.

i use a sba4 with a re10 a5sr and it fits pretty good. just an 1/8 of an inch gap between the castle nut and brace when fully collapsed. not a big deal but might be for people with OCD. 

10 hours ago, Jdoug075 said:

anything below an 11 or 11.5 inch barrel you would need to pin and weld your muzzle device and just use a standard receiver extension. using a bcm 11.5 with a standard buffer tube got me 25 7/8 of an inch. other 11.5 barrels may be different but thats what i got.

for a 10.5 inch, just using a vltor a5 will not get you to the minimum length.

i would just pin and weld your muzzle device on a 10.5 to get you the length. unless you want the vltor a5 system which is an upgrade.

just be aware of the 2 types of a5. they got the 6 and 7 positions, re a5 and re 10 a5sr respectively

some sba braces may be finicky with the vltor extensions whether it be the 6 or 7 postions so it will be a trial and error.

i use a sba4 with a re10 a5sr and it fits pretty good. just an 1/8 of an inch gap between the castle nut and brace when fully collapsed. not a big deal but might be for people with OCD. 

Thanks for the reply... so it sounds like all I have to do is pin and weld the muzzlebrake on a 10.5 and or a 11.5 with a standard mil-spec buffer tube. 

@CapGuns&SnapsKid

yes pinned welded with standard buffer tube and 10.5 or 11.5 barrels

I went with a 11.5 and the vltor re10a5sr it’s the six position tube. My thought process for this was id like to take advantage of all the benefits this type of weapon offers in our restrictive state. I wanted to be able to change muzzle devices at will. 

I looked at the nice decision chart above, and I believe that there is a part missing. I circled it in red on this pic this is another half inch or so of length that is not accounted for in the calculations.....

The buffer tube slides thru the castle nut and end plate so those pieces do not effect overall length. 

You are right, of course...

Anybody has any input as to foldable forward grip?

I didn't see that it is forbidden anyway so I assume it should be OK

I would be wary of that.

Similar to the LAW Tactical Folder for stocks/braces where overall length is measured from shortest 'fireable' position, ie. the stock folded over, a VFG that can be folded up eliminates the need for 2 handed shooting and is considered a pistol by ATF standards and illegal in NJ. 

Stick to a normal VFG

45 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Anybody has any input as to foldable forward grip?

I didn't see that it is forbidden anyway so I assume it should be OK

Is it substantially identical to a VFG they ok'ed through ATF official opinion?

 

No.

They already said no to AVG's... i cant possibly see this being ok then. 

 

Yes it is substantially identical. When it is not folded it is identical and has the exact same functionality.

It is completely different then AVG

28 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Yes it is substantially identical. When it is not folded it is identical and has the exact same functionality.

It is completely different then AVG

Folding is not substantially identical, just like throwing a minimalist type stock is not the same as a brace. 

That firearm is meant to be fired with 2 hands. You fold the grip up allows it to be fired with 1 hand so its no longer a firearm, its a pistol. 

If you don't fold it and take your hand off of it you can still shoot in one hand. So that doesn't make any sense.

Besides we are not in the movies and the person that can shoot one handed an AR in any caliber other then 9 mill and actually hit above 90% is a better shot then all of us.....

It doesnt matter what the shooter can do, its how the weapon was designed to be fired. 

For example:

Pistol braces were designed to be strapped around your forearm to be fired. The fact that you can shoulder them is a by product of the design and not what it was designed to do. The fact that it was designed to not be shouldered is what designates it as a pistol, thus allows you ignore NFA laws and build 9" guns.

VFGs arent allowed on AR pistols because it redefines the firearm as a 2 handed weapon, thus not a pistol. Yes, everyone shoots AR pistols with 2 hands anyway because the handguard allows you to put your hand there but in the eyes of the law, a VFG necessitates a 2nd hand on the weapon.

Yes all these laws are silly but they are what they are for the moment. If you want to add a folding grip to the weapon, go for it. In all honesty, you probably will never be caught. Just realize that if you do, theres a good chance you arent facing just state laws, but federal laws as well.