Shane45

"What you good sirs fail to see is that we are not "jealous", or "envious" of your chosen profession and the inherent rights that come with it while you perform your duties on and off duty. The original point of this thread was that when you retire.... how are your 2nd Amendment Rights more important than my retired father's, or my widow next door neighbor, or mine?" This!

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that we are all adults and can argue politely to sway each others oppinion, the point of a debate. But at the end of the day Id like to think we could stand shoulder to shoulder on the range together with no hard feelings, its just a debate. Even if I entirely disagree with someone here, I like to think its simply a disagreement. If mutual respect is lost, then convincing the pther party of the merrits of your position is lost too.

And for reference this was in the 90's and unrelated to current economy.

BLF, 6 years to get hired and you think there is a shortage of people willing to take the job? Getting picked up by a PD is damn near akin to hitting the lottery! When I used to be employed doing investigations in the private sector I cant even count the number of test taking, BA's in criminal justice carrying people I had working for me! Out of those many many many highly qualified, highly educated, squared away individuals trying to get into LE I know of 2 that made it! There is no shortage of people willing to take the job IMHO.

Special K, I think you are borderline delusional on how you think the scenario will unfold and all the consideration you will be afforded because you told the nice officer you were justified.

Now I hate you both. Glock users are a group that should be segregated!

BLF, personally I have no hard feeling about LE carrying. Clearly I think it should be the case unabated. But I also think that should be the case for anyone that is not a disqualified citizen. I think the point of this thread, though, is that retired LE could find themselves standing shoulder to shoulder with "us". And that I guess that creates the hope of perhaps a greater sympathy of our situation for LE that have previously held a position that only LE or Mil should have the right to carry.

#1 Commercial fisherman #2 through #10 Most Dangerous for 2010 Job Title and Number of Deaths per 100,000 People Employed 2. Loggers and related: 91.9/100,000 -- Same place rank as 2008. 3. Aircraft Pilots and Flight Engineers: 70.6 -- Up from #6 in 2008. 4. Farmers and Ranchers: 41.4 -- Same place rank as 2008. 5. Mining Machine Operators: 38.7 -- Up from #8 in 2008. 6. Roofers: 32.4 -- Up from #7 in 2008, becoming more deadly. 7. Refuse and Recyclable Materials Collectors: 29.8 -- Down from #5 in 2008 8. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers: 21.8 -- Up from #17 in 2008. 9. Industrial Machinery Installation, Repair and Maintenance Workers: 20.3 10. Police and Sheriff's Officers: 18.0 -- Up from #12 in 2008. SO WE NEED TO ARM THE FISHERMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im reposting my post from page one because posting is so active in this thread Ithink most missed it.... Posted Today, 11:01 AM I think that there is a muddied argument being made here. Duty to act is not relevant to a fed law allowing retired LE to carry. But this convo ties in to some statements I had made previously on this forum and that was the disiparity of the human right to protect ones self. Retired LE, like corrections officers are afforded the right to self protection presumably because they may be targeted or run into someone that harbors bad intentions toward them for actions performed during their active service. This, for me, sparks MANY questions!!!! Why are rights different for groups of people. I believe this to be pattently wrong!!!!! Why cant an individual that has served in the military in Delta force, recieved more firearms training than entire police departments recieve in a decade, fought evil worldwide get a permit to protect themself? Why cant a retired LE who worked a supermax prison for 30 years and come into contact with the baddest of the bad get a carry permit without jumping through yearly hoops and expence of certification? Why cant a person that has been abducted in error by a biker gang who testified against them and put them behind bars have the right to protect themself. Why CAN any non leo non with zero training that gets a ccw because they are friends with a judge or politician have one with NO requirements whatsovere, yearly or otherwise? WHY AS CITISENS OF THE UNITED STATES DO WE TOLERATE THESE DESPARITIES IN HUMAN RIGHTS??????? We might as well bring back segregation, repeal womans right to vote, deny employemnt on race, religion or sexual oreintation if we are going to continue to grant or deny rights based on the group they belong to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shane

I think that there is a muddied argument being made here. Duty to act is not relevant to a fed law allowing retired LE to carry. But this convo ties in to some statements I had made previously on this forum and that was the disiparity of the human right to protect ones self. Retired LE, like corrections officers are afforded the right to self protection presumably because they may be targeted or run into someone that harbors bad intentions toward them for actions performed during their active service. This, for me, sparks MANY questions!!!! Why are rights different for groups of people. I believe this to be pattently wrong!!!!! Why cant an individual that has served in the military in Delta force, recieved more firearms training than entire police departments recieve in a decade, fought evil worldwide get a permit to protect themself? Why cant a retired LE who worked a supermax prison for 30 years and come into contact with the baddest of the bad get a carry permit without jumping through yearly hoops and expence of certification? Why cant a person that has been abducted in error by a biker gang who testified against them and put them behind bars have the right to protect themself. Why CAN any non leo non with zero training that gets a ccw because they are friends with a judge or politician have one with NO requirements whatsovere, yearly or otherwise? WHY AS CITISENS OF THE UNITED STATES DO WE TOLERATE THESE DESPARITIES IN HUMAN RIGHTS??????? We might as well bring back segregation, repeal womans right to vote, deny employemnt on race, religion or sexual oreintation if we are going to continue to grant or deny rights based on the group they belong to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shane

You shoot someone, there WILL be an investigation in this state! I have considered this and so my HD weapon is one I could care less about.

I like the fragmenting characteristics of 40gr V-max based rounds for 5.56 for an inside a dwelling scenario. Deer shot with this round looked like a mini grenade went off inside them and they seem to do really well at staying inside a dwelling from the tests I have seen.

Oh man these guys are surely going to get sued!

If your question is directed at me, the 17 in the pic is not mine. But the work performed on it was done by Arms N Ammo, a vendor here. However the 16s that is in the bag its laying on is mine. I did my own work on it.

Blksheep, Fireamrs instructor, experience etc etc and you dont see any flaws in the ref material you linked about pen of 5.56 rounds? I read that ref material as NJ doesnt want LE using evil black rifles either LOL

Keep teasing us with free America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not entirely envisioning your project.. but Ill float an idea just the same. I dont think it would be easy to do at home but if you have a machiist friend that could help, it might look really cool to remove bands of checkering and leave some bands.

Snapped a quick pic at the range today. KAC SR25 EMC and SCAR17

For me its about the instructor reviews, build quality, materials and testing. Build quality is self explanatory. Materials is fairly self eplanatory, Series of aluminum, process by which it was made(forged, cast, extruded etc etc, ) Barrel steel, Anodising. And then there is the instructor reviews. A conversation I had with Doc Roberts a long time ago on the subject. Readers digest version most AR's will appear to perform well under the minor stresses put on them by the casual weekend range trip. Its the high round count in a short time span, aggressive OCF classes that tend to expose the lesser rifles. And this is where the better materials, better build quality tend to show themselves as being a superior rifle. When a rifle brand that represents 50% of the class is having 90% of the failures over thousands of students and rifles, I think there is valuable data there. Interestingly Im seeing a trend among some instructors toward the SCAR and a few have said the ones they see in classes just arent going down.

Colt Bushy Olympic

In consideration to those that have good examples and are happy with their rifles, please dont take offence to my comments. But my knowledge isnt from reading on the internet or friend of friend, it is first hand and from a perspective other than just consumer.

I would not own a LWRC rfile. Not only have I seen a ton of problems but that company F'd over a lot of people in the industry. If it wasnt for Maytech saving their a$$, I dont think there would be an LWRC to buy from today! Unfortunatly I think Maytech bought them on the IAR contract prospect but that dog didnt hunt and the award went elsewhere.

Lusting after this. And actually called in some favors at FN to get my hands on one. Affording it is another matter however!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dog question is actually a very good one. Given the time to make the decision to release the dog, this would have likely been the next escalation. however, given the actor's wind up and fast escalation and the other officers potential for injury or death as a result, there was no time to give a command and let the dog do his job in my opinion.

With a spent casing it can be matched to a specific gun provided it has not been altered.