Scrap

IMHO you should in fact always do what is feeling right and is best for you. Why do otherwise right? Unless a specific reason of course. I got out of the .223 in September (I had to sell my AR for emergency cash), then I realized, I had a ton of .22LR, a ton of 7.62x39 figuratively speaking (and a rifle to shoot it) and I got me a really decent Remington 700 in .308, decent scope, decent bipod, decent stash of ammo. For MYSELF and my Family and short and medium future, I feel like I have the short range, medium range, and long ranges covered. .223 doesn't need to be in there it would be an extra ( and of course an EXTRA COST for me.). Now if you HAVE An AR or a couple of ARs etc. then it makes more sense cause you're just adding on. Now the rilfes you mentioned. Savage Axis vs. Mini 14. BIG DIFFERENCE imho ... Axis is an entry level bolt action , Mini-14 is a name brand semi-automatic. SUBSTANTIAL price difference. I am betting you can get an Axis, a 'decent' scope, and a couple hundred rounds for the price if not a little less than a Mini-14 straight up. And let the record reflect i LOVE SAVAGE, *EXTREME* value for dollar and quality-to-price-ratio . Plus I also dig the bolt-action and it will be less trouble, easier to maintain, perfect for a first rifle. I will also say begrudgingly that .223 is a pretty great starter caliber, no real recoil to worry about, used to be fairly decent price, etc. (NOW it's very expensive and .308 is even more expensive). Keep in mind though a .308 will do anyhing and MORE you need or want a .223 to do, but of course a .223 isn't reciprocal. A lot of places wouldn't let you hunt with that .223 rifle so if you want a jack of all trades rifle for a few years and might go hunting, that is a factor. If I was you and I am not, and I will get a lot of flack for this, I would consider this- Get yourself a Savage Mark II .22LR package rifle (around $200 from like Dick's Sporting Goods) and an Axis .308 package rifle ( even cheaper than I remember, Buds Gun Shop has it $322 right now ...Walmart, Cheaper than Dirt, also have them..) . You could probably go to Dick's and get both. They will be fine rifles for a long time. They will come with basic scopes to get you at least started. The .22LR will be great to learn on, practice extremely cheaply, and also you can keep it for the future forever, maybe upgrade the scope sometimes but it will last you. The .308 Axis is also an entry rifle but an AWESOME entry rifle, the .308 caliber is enough for *ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING YOU CAN WANT TO DO ON NORTH AMERICA* virtually, from range shooting, target/or just plinking fun, 100-600+ yds (the round will go 1000 yds under right circumstances but i doubt you and I will be shooting that far)... you could bring it with you to hunt if you ever go somewhere, .308 is VERY VERY COMMON and easy to find ( the present ammo crisis nonwithstanding but still I can find a few boxes whenever I go out)... and both as I said , come with entry level 'cheap' scopes that will get you going and you can always upgrade later when you save up. $350+$250 is what, $600? For two rifles w scopes and you can spend some more on ammo for both. And you honestly have two rifles that should last for lifetime(s). Anyway just a thought lol.

I did back in early and mid 2010, when I first got my FID the first week of Jan 10 and started my purchasing (I had saved a lot or at least a decent amount to be able to do some purchasing early and often) ... and I was buying some .22's and lots of ammo and different ammos at that. Winchester was basically tied with Remington as the worst stuff I'd ever bought. I will not shoot a round of winchester nor remington through my 597, Mark II, nor 15-22 under any circumstance other than SHTF ... I HAVE a couple'a-few boxes of assorted Rem/Win rimfires in my ammo storage but, not for anything other than JUST IN CaSE. *** OTHER PEOPLE*** will surely say it's their favorite it works all the time I suck and they hate me and that is all fine and good, I can only give you my experience and opinion, and while my experience is not absolutely EXTENSIVE it is in fact figuratively full and varied, and my opinion while of course only my own, is always as unbiased as I can be (I believe we all have a BIT of bias in this game somehow or another but we can make educated choices and informed opinions based on our cumulative training, education, experience, intangibles, etc.). So for me, No Winchester rimfire nor Remington.... there are other brands I will try and buy, but as I said, if I COULD, I'd only stock CCI and Federal and I'd be extremely happy and extremely straight shooting.

I generally feel this way as well, I basically use the company brands CCI and Federal for all my rimfire needs. CCI has a bunch of different lines and I love them all, Federal has the world famous bulk pack which might be the best buy in all of ammunition and also when Federal AutoMatch came out in like what, late summer 2010? I also love that, has SKYROCKETED in price, originally was $14.49 /325 at Walmart. If that was still avail I'd prob buy 500 dollars worth. But yeah, with CCI and Federal I have all my rimfire needs met. I have other ammos from when I was just getting started nd would buy anything, but won't buy anymore.

I was just there,you could see the $14.99 price and the kid said, "Oh no they're $24.99 the $14.99 was something else that we don't have anymore, and I got a big shipment of this and had to stretch it out across the shelf...nope noooo not 14.99....24.99 all day..." This is the same gentleman (kid really) who if you're reading this I decided to be uncharacteristically nice and not punk you (partly due to the calming influence of my father being with me...) When you decided to explain to me the Benelli Supernova is so light, _NOT _ because of the plastic armor as I suggested, but because of the inertia system it uses that Benelli is famous for, (and suggested I might not know what inertia is , its the gas operating system, for you regular folk)... Wow, you have a pump shotgun with an intertia -thats gas operating system if you don't know - driven action? Benelli Supernova Inertia... coming soon to a gunshop near you. And there was a little something about the Benelli M4 w/ conventional stock that I let go, won't get into further details.

It's absolutely the best you can get in firearms for $200 bucks... Amazing. I have the same one but the Mark II rather than the 64, which is basically the exact same thing but the bolt-action rimfire version rather than the autoloading rimfire version. Essentially the same thing exactly other than the action. Mine was $200 at Dick's Sporting Goods in early 2010, I noticed it on the rack and it was looking especially classy. It had been on sale just recently for $149.99 and I asked if I could have it for the sale price, the kid at the counter was making a ton of reasons why that was the least likely thing to happen on God's Green Earth, so I Google'd Dick's corporate # on the iPhone I had at the time, called them up, told them I was at their store, wanted to buy something but wanted it on the sale that recently expired, they said, absolutely, go tell the manager you're on the phone with us. The manager was like, I wish you came to me first before you called, the kid has no power, I will give you 10% off everything else you buy for it today (other than the rifle which was already put on the sale price of $149.99) so I got a Hoppe's cleaning kit, soft case by Field and Stream, sling by field and stream, a few boxes of 500/etc. rimfire bricks, additional cleaning supplies, etc. IT IS AN AMAZING RIFLE ... I mean unreal accuracy in such a cheap purchase. I got mine with a Bushnell rimfire 3-9x40mm scope, which was uncanny for such a cheap add-on.. I would not have even bothered changing it if it didn't get knocked over and break. when I put a Nikon ProStaff on it its like shooting a .22 Browning A-Bolt or something. Unreal. And it has awesome color and clarity of the stock, really nice checkering , just such a classy rifle. You will *NOT* be disappointed with this seriously. I can't speak for their rimfire autoloading action because I don't have THAT one but the Mark II GXP, best decision I ever made in guns.

MidwayUSA has a bunch, I think like 6 or 8, Nightforce scopes on sale for $1599 (Some of them were like save $300 so that was a nice discount). I looked at the exact Leupold you mention back in October and November, now I don't mean to sound anything but helpful- but are you sure you want that "L" series from Leupold, with the dip-built-into the bell so it sits really low on the barrel w/ the hump "riding" over? I just didn't like it, I mean I was letting everyone convince me it was the best etc. but in the back of my mind, I just wasn't comfortable with it...I was very very close to a particular VX3 4.5-14x50 illuminated B&C and also a few VX3Ls, just something to think about.

There is a $3500 package from ImpactGuns which is basically a Springfield Armory SOCOM, a Sage ALCS , EOTech 553, and 4 magazines, all Cerakote'd a really nice shade of desert-style Flat Darth Earth... i HAD the money last fall, and said, DO NOT Spend it on all guns and especially super nice expensive guns like this... Get yourself one (or two in my case) nice firearms that suffice as 'new toys' (Which became my new 870 Tactical Magpul Police shotgun and my 700 AAC-SD build)... and then I wound up spending the money on things, you know , you actually need in life.... But now I say, screw it I wish I had that bad mofo ! In reality I am very likely moving this summer down south, and am hoping to save up for a moving present or two... Will probably want to take advantage of walking in the gunshop and buying a handgun on the spot, and maybe if I can actually save enough I'll try to build my own version of this package.

^^ MOS DEF on the shoulder thing that goes up. And man oh man, if you got a gat that not only has a shoulder thing that goes up, but takes clips, HIGH CAPACiTY -clips- at that ,boy you're in a world of militaristic assaulting malfeasance.

See this is such a good point that can never seem to be successfully explained to gun grabbers and the anti's. For example: My S&W M&P 15-22 is one of my favorite firearms and it's such a joy to shoot, a ton of fun and of course very accurate, rfeliable, fine-functioning etc. I also spent quite a deal of time, certainly a lot of money, and effort "hooking it up" and making it custom to my 'tacticool' specifications. As a result, I have literally been told its "the coolest gun I've ever seen" several times by many people at the range, at a gunshop, a few internet forums, etc. I have *ALSO* been told, 'That thing doesn't look like an M4 or M16, it looks like a toy!" / "Is that an Airsoft toy gun?" ... which it of course is not. and even some 'anti' types have described it as toy looking, but they've also described it as an evil militaristic gun... Well WHICH IS IT? Does it look like a toy or is it a terrible military style assault weapon with the ability to accept a detachable mag? And if it is, is my Remington 597 'sporter' rifle w/ 'sporter [hunting] style scope' , is THAT a military style assault weapon? Because it uses the same exact style of action as the 15-22 (autoloading blowback rimfire) and both "have the ability to accept a high capacity detachable magazine (albeit we dont allow that here but in principle it can) "... So which is it? And INVARIABLY The naysayers can never provide a real answer, usually can't even get their sentences to agree with each other let alone make a proper conclusion. And that is what bothers me. Not that the LOOK of a weapon should dictate legality or acceptability, but these fools making the proclamations can't even decide WHICH Firearms look like the ones they don't like and what is looking bad/ what looks good etc.

I got extremely lucky when I bought a Saiga the first week of November... I got a fairly decent price, right after I bought it and i mean, after they gave me my box, they raised the price ( this was pre-CT-craziness but full scale Obama-was-re-elected-craziness, who knew THAT Crazyiness wasnt even really comparable to the craziness to come...) because soooo many people were just buying everything. I honestly believe I probably hand-sold 3 or 4 Saiga shotguns @ CMO in the hours we were waiting for my NICS to come back through, and other people were waiting to even just be helped to begin with. MANY people were like... "wait... Its an AK Shotgun?? a REAL Russian AK, but 12 gauge shotgun? ." and when you explain it takes magazines, " BOX MAGAZINES.... Like... like...a ..a Glock??!?!?! And its 12 gauge...Russian AK....and its LEGAL??" I mean crowds were forming listening like I was holding a sermon. Well I got mine, having no idea the craziness to come. If I had only known, I would have bought 3 S12's and two each S20's and Saiga 410s. If only I knew. BUT I have it now, have spent some good time and money and effort hooking it up and now I will probably wait, maybe moving down south this summer, and if so I'm going to go big time professional conversion , make it fully awesome and even until then, still worth every penny IMHO. I've had some people stop and stare at some of my 'toys' at the range, but never as much as the S-12.

on second thought nevermind sorry.

Congratulations its a great gun and something on my list of wants as well. Actually there is one specific submodel 590A1 I want and am holding out. 590A1 and the Benelli Supernova Tactical and i think I'll be set on pump shotguns... but my shotgun collection is pretty cool but nowhere near the coolness it will be once my head and my safe become one with reality lol. Anyway bro congrats. Awesome gun.

I am both a huge Streamlight flashlight guy and also a green laser guy- once you play around with either a Streamlight flashlight or a green laser you get hooked IMHO. I was going to post two things- first of all, MidwayUSA has the Streamlight TLR-4 on sale and also the TLR-3 I believe. The TLR-4 is a compact light and laser combo perfect for Midsize and smaller pistols (Like a G23 and G27/G19 and G26 etc. and whatever sizes M&P etc. coorespond. ) The TLR-3 is a compact light only. However I am basically hooked on green lasers, I have a few toys and they are AMAZING day or night, so I am going to wait for a Viridian. We are probably moving to FL soon and if so, buying a new handgun is much easier, I'd probably buy myself a celebratroy handgun and then equip it with a Viridian. They look amazing as well.

Hey there, I would not want to get into a debate over the proper cheek weld position on a shotgun because I am a firm believer on what works for you should be priority, not what works for the guy on the internet telling you how to do it nor what a popular position is vs what you're most comfortable with etc. I am not sure how my shooting cheek weld techniques (rifle OR Shotgun) compare to what others think is right and wrong, but I know what feels right etc. Now for the shotgun, I think your STANCE would be much much more important than just your cheek weld. (And therefor your cheek vs. jawbone positon. Just position it comfortably for you IMHO). BUT How you hold the shotgun, literally your grip of the gun, the angle of your arms (both the trigger finger hand/grip and the support/pump hand grip), the way you 'mount' the gun into your shoulder and 'tuck' it into the proper 'pouch' position, then the way you're pointing the weapon to aim and then shoot, and your leg position/back position etc. is MUCH more important IMHO for recoil reduction and proper shooting technique/action. There would not be enough text space to type out a documentary on how to stand and hold the shotgun and I am not nearly an expert enough, I would think a few Google searches or even more effectively a Googe Images/ Youtube video would give you a best way to see someone , maybe like this one : Thats the trailer for Magpul Dynamics Art of the Dynamic Shotgun and there are a few great shots of people holding shotguns , back curled into a position of strength, shotgun tucked tightly into the shoulder and arms properly supporting and sustaining the gun, and legs properly supporting your weight and the guns weight and therefore recoil power.

I ABSOLUTELY either agree with -those who stated it or SUGGEST TO those who don't - The LimbSaver makes *ALL THE DIFFERENCE*. I also completely agree that without it , a wife, girlfriend, even a guy who might not be too familiar with a shotgun will either miss completely or injury themsleves/someone else. When I bought my Mossberg 930 SPX I was about as proud and loud as one could be, it was the hottest firearm on the national market for a bit and I was the only one around my area who had one... When I shot it for the first time, I almost decided to sell/trade it. It was pounding me, not fun, and certainly not an effective tool in the defense.. Someone suggested LimbSaver, so I bought one , did my best installing it, decided to say "F it" and just super-glued it to the stock... and it was the best decision I've made in firearms... AMAZING reduction in recoil and allowing me to shoot/follow up / shoot again/ etc. no problems at all. When I bought my own 870 Tactical in October i decided to immediately put all the Magpul SGA accessories that were made, and with that the Stock has an adapter available. When you buy the adapter you can mount LimbSaver (or Pachmayr / SuperCell etc.) pads... Again, make *ALL THE DIFFERENCE*. However much it costs, its worth every dime. It changes everything and I agree, I would not be comfortable without it and DEFINITELY not comfortable allowing a family member / friend to use it in an emergency. The LimbSaver changes everythng. I will say one last thing- when I got the Saiga 12 for Christmas for my old man I also wanted a LimbSaver, but they old had the capability to add the large slip on rather than a precision type . Well the Slip On is of course great for reducing recoil but its much much larger pad than a precision fit, it adds a few inches to the length of pull and can even catch your clothes a little more than usual (I was constantly finding it caught my hoodie fabric in the shoulder area when I was mounting/pointing the S12 last month at the range). So the Slip on is great for last resort but the precision/speed mount type pads are much better if possible. Sometimes they are just not possible so you do what you gotta do. [My old man is moving to FL soon and I may or may not be joining, if I do I would be getting the S12 converted straight away, and depending on the stock we went with I'd get a real LimbSaver mounted on the new stock.. I'm just not sure if we would go with a Magpul / AR-type collapsing style stock, a side-folding style/Ace stock, or a straight up AK/Wood style stock.

Trust me it's not as great as you think. I had set up both my ARs (My 5.56 Bushmaster 14.5/ and a 15-22) with single point slings and used Magpul MS/2s for them. The 15-22 is fine because I have mine pinned fully closed, its a small straight-CQB style rifle. And the Bushmaster 556 was also designed as a CQB carbine. No big deal but they aren't set up for long term carrying or humping, more for like standing a little guard duty or room clearing / CQB where you might let go just once in a while and let it dangle. When I got my 870 Tactical I installed each and every piece of Magpul available including the rear receiver sling mount and front sling mount tower.... when you combine the rear point with the single point sling (MS2) its like using an AR15 carbine w/ single point sling but not as nice, the heavy long shotgun wants to helmet tap you all day long .... Fun for a little bit or again, if you were on guard duty w/ weapon in hand most of time but its not like an AR carbine comfortable, actually helmet tapper city.

I would say a large portion of those implementing firearms in the home defense plans use a Mossberg 500 brother. As far as weak rails and sloppy action, I believe my esteemed colleague above who noted the 'shake, rattles and rolls' is correct - the Mossberg has really loose tolerances to make it super reliable, so it has some 'give' to it. When I was brand new to buying firearms a kid at Dick's Sporting Goods tried to show me how bad a M500 was with the shaking tolerance... I did my research and found its actually quite desirable (Think of how finely tuned a Ferrari must be, but a loose screw grounds it completely). So I would say unless you are experiencing genuine critical malfunctions or have parts damage, just give it a nice good cleaning and lubrication and put it back together real good and see how she goes.... I would surmise its going to be just fine.

I could have sworn I posted this in the General Firearms Discussion forum. amazing, I had tracked a few posts the past few weeks of mine disappearing from threads , now topics travelling. Anyway thanks Shane if you have any more info on this i'd be happy to study it. If that ACOG model does go with the rimfires like VQ has made it seem, it might make me need a new rimfire rifle soon.

Certainly many very famous names in this thread, reputable models and good advice in all shapes and sizes ... It is very easy to find yourself wanting and/or just buying both. Rimfire is a ton of fun and has become sooo popular there is such a variety and until recently plenty of cheap ammo. (My oh my oh Pie-o-my! how times have changed in a few months). The bolt action will be the absolute longest lasting least maintenance hardest to mess-up etc. Plenty of accuracy and less moving parts to break or malfunction- I can and will HIGHLY Recommend Savage Mark II .22LR's... they have some $600 showpieces but mine was a "basic" $200, had on sale for $150- and that is a beautiful wooden stock, some nice checkering, a cheap scope etc. Cannot beat it with a stick, I mean it is *amazing* shooting for any price, *let alone* $150. I also have a Remington 597, also was $200 w/ a scope, this is a semiautomatic and a fine rifle I love mine, but I put a ton of time and effort and modifcations etc, this is a rifle of passion IMHO, the bolt action is a lot more plug-n-play IMHO. Not for $200 but for $400+ you start to enter The Tactical Twenty-Two zone, where you can get an AR-15/M4 Carbine, MP5, Sig Sauer 550-style, HK 416, etc. and many many more tactical style rifles that look just like they came off a battlefield but shoot .22LR... (I went with the Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22). It is NOT hard and very fun and easy to become addicted to rimfire.... you just don't want to WASTE money, although it is hard to fine smething WORTHLESS. As I said, many fine rifles and reccomendations in this thread, I felt like I would add my own, bolt-action Savage Mark II (GXP) , Remington 597 , and S&W M&P 15-22

Ahh just reread this, thank you that looks very very similar. Who uses it in the military if I can ask ? very interested in stuff lik that.

Ahh didn't realize ... pretty cool then... looked a little like a HK G36 mixed with a PS90

what is it?

As we have discussed on the other forums , I love me an ACOG as much as the next guy but never bought one- For one, they are just so extremely expensive, They have a very specific practical application /usage mission, and I feel like it's like a Pringle, once you pop, you can't stop, one would never be enough. Anyway I had long thought it was cool exploring their website, seeing the different models and magnifications/sizes and also the specific uses for some , one designed for the M249 SAW, One designed for the M240 7.62, etc. the M2 Browning in 50 BMG, even they make a 7.62x39mm for an AK presumably... Just lots of cool stuff. Really could be asking this question about a ton of the models .. 1.5? 5.5? what firearms did they design each one for (if there is some sort of sheet or info you guys know of that says, we designed this model for this gun etc. plz let me know) Specifically I was on Volquartsen's page looking for stuff for my 597... Always loved Volquartsen.. anyway under the Optics section for the Remington 597 they have the ACOG TA11B which is the 3.5x with the circle reticle w/ several triangles inside it... Who knows what this is for to begin with, Apparently "because of the export laws" Trijicon would not even provide the MOA info of the reticle to some Arfcom ppl who asked. So if its listed on the 597 page I'm wondering if it is for .22LR? Then I see it featured prominently on top of the Volquartsen Fusion rifle, which is an amazingly beautiful VQ takedown with .22LR, .22WMR, .17HMR etc. bbls, and it looks amazing with the ACOG on top, and it made me think, is this a rimfire reticle ACOG? Does anyone know anything about this model ACOG and the reticle? Thanks.

Wow you know I really like that for a fun, collector type piece that I would get a decent amount of utility value. 12 gauge and actually 7.62x39mm are two of my largest collections of ammo so it would be a great little util combo. I would probably want to put a reflex/red dot on it and am not sure thats possible. Nor do i like the price...if it was half price, I would surmsie it'd be a winner.

I have a bunch of different stuff, from hard plastic cases to dirt cheap soft cases from both local gun shops and Dicks Sporting Goods, to decent ones , Field n Stream ones, etc. and just recently I actually bought a few of these exact cases at Cabelas along with realllllyl nice Cabelas large camo cases. As I said earlier, I think this was $44.99 the big camo case (which is really REALLY nice) was $70 ish. These cases are great, you'd be surprised. we could not get the Saiga 12 into it which was ashame since it comes with the magazine pouches on the side. But, it really is a great case, I just ordered 3 more on top of the 3 we already bought, should be a good indicator. Now if the zipper fails I can't predict but, I'm happy so far.