High Exposure

Your RR is just like my Bushmaster!

OS, I hear you - and I agree that this thread is silly, I said so in an early post. But I don't need that level of info to be comfortable with my decision. I am not going to solve their issues and there are eleventyhundred 1911 manufacturers out there. I don't need to buy a Kimber. Again, my opinion is mine, it is based on my observations and experiences. It is a fact that I witnessed it, it is a fact that it happened. I will give the best info I have based on what I see. I won't lie or exaggerate - there is no need. The reader does not need to believe me and can dismiss my accounts out if hand if they wish - That is the reader's prerogative. Again, this is not Consumers Report or a Scientific Journal. It's a gun forum. Of the Kimbers I have seen while training, a large percentage of them failed in a similar manner - small parts breakage: safety, extractor , ejector, trigger bar, takedown levers, etc... I don't know scientifically exactly why it failed. Was it an out of spec part? Was the frame out of spec placing too much strain on the in-spec part? A combo of the two? Was it inferior materials? Frankly, since it's not my gun, I don't care. I just know I don't want that aggravation in my life. I also know it happened relatively often compared to other guns in a statistically small sample. I have also heard similar stories from people I trust who have a much larger data set (that is still small overall) to make me confident in my decision to not spend my hard earned money and gamble on a similar dud. And you know what, I have yet to have a Kimber fail on me. Eureka! It worked I also don't know exactly why EoTech optics, Taurus handguns, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, and Rock River ARs fail either, but I know they do. I have seen it repeatedly with my own eyes. I don't care if it is out of spec parts, badly engineered battery contacts, or substandard materials. I will spend my money on items that don't have that reputation or I have observed fail repeatedly firsthand. And if someone asks I will tell them.

Tom, welcome and congrats on your first purchase. I am a big fan of this drill for dry fire training: http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill I like to combine this with some live fire training as well and make all of my shooters do this drill as the first course of fire of the day prior to training. Make sure you have some initial marksmanship training of the basics/fundamentals under the watchful eye of a reputable trainer or competent friend before you practice with dry fire. You don't want to practice bad form or the wrong technique and commit it to procedural memory. Also, with most semi-auto pistols (especially single action only and striker fired guns) make sure that the racking of the slide in order to reset the trigger is a deliberate and seperate act from the sight alignment and trigger pull. Pause after you press the trigger and hold the sights still for a second or two, keeping the trigger pinned to the rear. Rack the slide then aim in, easing the trigger to reset before refining the sight picture and starting your next press. Do not rush to set the dril up again.You don't want to train the manipulation of the pistol into the firing drill. Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent.

From the other thread: I am not a huge 1911 guy so I couldn't diagnose the exact cause of the malfunction and subsequent breakage. They were also not my guns so I didn't go home and study them. I do know that they were all stock guns with very low round counts. They were properly maintained, cleaned, and lubed. They were all shooting quality factory ammo that was purchased by their Dept and shared by other shooters on the line with no one else having any issues - including other 1911 shooters. Each gun experienced small parts breakage of the internals and control surfaces. The frame, barrel, and slide appeared undamaged. The worst (best?) one was like a cartoon. It was a Kimber Desert Warrior and it was brand new. The shooter just kept banging away and bits kept flying off until the gun locked up. Safety, front sight, takedown lever, safety plunger....

It's a sales thing. Consider it free advertising. If the hoi polloi see the professional gun seller carrying a Glock/Sig/Springfield/HK/S&W they will want the same.

It was 4 catastrophic failures - none were ammo related - and I was personally there for each of them. I inspected the pieces and the ammo and knew the shooters. I didn't pull the trigger, but I watched it happen - that's a little better than anecdotal. The reason to "damn them" is that I have not seen another brand of pistol have that many failures of that type ever (I did see one friend's Springfield XD eat itself at a steel comp). I have seen maybe 20-25 Kimbers at classes. 4 of them shit the bed in spectacular fashion. That's a pretty big percentage. I have seen more Glocks fail, but I have seen exponentially more Glocks on the line. More importantly, each failure was traced back to something relatively benign that was easily fixed. Whether you believe it, or not, is up to the reader. There are even more failures that I have heard about from what I consider impeccable sources, but it is second-hand so I don't include them in my recounting of Kimber failure events. However,I believe them, and they go towards my decision making process. The sources are highly regarded instructors that oversee hundreds of thousands of rounds fired downrange from hundreds of shooters over the course of a year. While not exactly scientific, they cover a pretty good sampling and have a decent data set that they keep meticulous notes on. One instructor's comment was "I wouldn't take a free Kimber if it came with a blowjob" while another states he would "Rather have a sister in a whorehouse than a Kimber in my holster before a gunfight". In any event, my opinion is to avoid Kimber. If the topic comes up, that's what I am going to say. It is based on personal observations, and the observations from people I trust. Most importantly it is based on how I interpret the info I have on hand. In the end it is up to the buyer/end-user to make an informed decision before purchase. They can research - or not. It's their money so it is on them. If a specific question is asked - you asked what relationship Kimber and Sig had - I will answer it. Otherwise, you get my opinion, and it is worth what you paid for it. I am not going to give a 3 page dissertation citing sources with footnotes on why I don't like Kimber. I am not going to rehash all of this each time the topic comes up. It is an internet forum, not a college class.

This is silly. All pistols will have examples that fail. Everyone knows that anything built by man can, and will, fail. This will prove nothing new. Keep in mind this info is only useful when you compare the number of failures you find, measured against the numbers of that brand's pistols out there, vs the number of rounds through them prior to the failure, vs the quality of ammo, vs how well the pistol was taken care of..... And so on and so on. There will no factual evidence of what occurred, just a photo an anecdotal story - unless you were there and saw it happen. Have at it, but it will demonstrate nothing useful.

Ron Cohen, the CEO of Sig, was formerly the CEO of Kimber. He started Kimber down the MIM path as well as the volume over quality business model - didn't matter if the gun runs, as long as it is on the store shelves so someone can buy it. He left Kimber and went to Sig in 2004 where he brought the same crappy business model to his new business. Now you have all the silly models and a company that puts out a product that by all accounts is inferior to what they made prior to 2004.

John, no one has said that TETO doesn't apply. As I have stated multiple times, you have them and like them, good on ya! My "own" is - I won't own Kimber.

How much you want for it?

Don't take it personally buddy. It is what it is. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. It has everything to do with a drastic and rapid decline in quality in their guns - starting prior 2004 - that was noticed by everyone, rabid Kimber fan boys included. Yes, we all understand that every manufacturer has some lemons. We all also know that anything designed and built by the hands of men can and will fail. You don't need to post the individual failing of every pistol ever made. You trust your Kimbers and want to shoot them - good. Continue to do so. I hope they run for you forever.

^^^ This is truth. Mindset is paramount. Your software is more important than the hardware.

Live trap it. Probably a lot less hassle than getting a dart gun, the drug, tracking it of you hit it, running around your neighborhood with a "gun".... Your local animal control probably gas traps you can use for free. Tell them it's for a raccoon or something, team the cat, help it, then call animal control and have them pick up the traps. Tell them you couldn't catch the "wild animal".

Here ya go: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/classifieds/item/4849-arsenal-sam7r-excellent-condition-762x39/ If I had the $$ I would have scooped it up already.

Bingo! Look, you can make 300 yard hits on paper/steel with an Aimpont PRO/T1/T2/M4s etc with no magnifier all day long. That's all fine and good, but paper and steel don't need to be identified as a threat before you engage them. Can you ID a cell phone from a gun from a can of beer at 300 yards with your Mk 1 eyeball? What good is being able to get hits at 300 yards if you can't positively ID what you are shooting at? This is a magnifier for a red dot sight. It enables you to ID threats v friendlies v unknown at the effective range of a carbine, and engage with an increased chance of hitting. It is not designed to magically turn an M4 into an SPR.

Whoa..... That's freaking awesome!

Just rumor... Booooooo! Just in case: Also, I saw it a third time. I took my Dad and my 5 year old son. It was even better a 3rd time in 2D awesomeness.

They had me until CAA was involved.

I don't own a Kimber. I won't own a Kimber. Doesn't mean I can't comment on their quality based on first hand observations. I have seen 3 eat themselves on the line in moderate round count trainjng classes. The instructor in each class stated that wasn't the first Kimber he saw sale destruct. I'm not talking Kaboom, I'm talking parts of the gun falling/flying off the frame while shooting, one locked up so bad he needed a hammer to get the slide all the way back. One shooter dropped a mag and all these small metal bits fell out. I also saw one self destruct in training I was giving. The factory front sight flew off, the ambI safety broke and the trigger connector broke. He spent more than he initially paid getting the gun up and running. He ended up replaced every part except the frame. All were higher-end Kimbers and all were owned by experienced gun owners. In my opinion, based on my observation, if you don't shoot more than 1000 rounds a year and religiously follow PM cycles annually, Kimbers may be a viable option. If you shoot a lot, not so much. John, your gun may tick along like a sewing machine - good for you. I think you may be the exception to the rule.

Aimpoint 6x mag: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/18/firstspear-range-day-aimpoint-magnifiers/ First hand report from a bud that is there (lucky bastard) says that it has decent focus adjustment to remove all astigmatism related smearing of the dot under magnification. MSRP: $900 Yikes!!

I am guessing Taurus quality for Colt prices. I'll pass.

Look around and you will find the issues with Alias. They overbooked a Pat McNamara class here in NJ just last year. Pat as the only instructor and 30 shooters on the line. 3 of my friends went and got zero direct instruction time with Pat. In fact, they are squared away shooters and were asked by Pat to help run the line. They paid $600 to learn and ended up teaching. That's bullshit. Paul (Alias) is pretty good at getting bad reviews taken down with a quickness using threats. And, again, it isn't about the instructor. Vogel is great and for comp shooters I doubt you will find much better. The issue is Paul (Alias) who acts as a "manager" or "booking agent" that is the issue.

Hmmm..... Page loads fine for me from the link. Google: sights and trigger training As far as Alias, they routinely overbook classes. 30 guys in a 1 or two day class with a single instructor. Paying $600 for a class and getting zero personal time with the instructor is no good. There is no concern of what the students get from a class, only how much money he will make. He changes venues last minute and doesn't tell anyone. 2 buddies were taking a LAV class in Texas. They changed the venue last minute and never told him. Caused them a ton of money and aggravation in hotel and flight changes to get to the new venue. Search his name and search for Alias training issues and pages will pop up of complaints.

This was the recent camera thread: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/78754-anybody-have-experience-with-these-home-security-cameras/?fromsearch=1 Maybe something in there will be useful.

Look into Sights and Triggers: http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/site/3ca3207e22524b0293624bd2b8893501/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsightsandtrigger.com%2F#2838 Great Instructor named Joe Riedy. Close, cheap, reasonable round count and class levels covering everything from the basics to advanced low light classes. He has a Handgun Fundamentals class on March 26, 2016. I have taken 2 of his classes already and plan on taking at least one this year.