vortex0178

One day does add up if you plan on buying 12-13 handguns a year, especially when you consider days of the week and throw Sunday (no NICS) into the mix. Say you make your first purchase on a Monday. If you follow the 30 full days between (30DB) method, your next buy would be a Thursday, then a Sunday - but wait, no NICS on Sunday! So you would be bumped to a Monday. This pattern of Monday/Thursday would continue throughout the year. If you follow the within 30 days (W30D) method, if your first purchase was on Monday, the next would be Wednesday, then a Friday, and then you would hit Sunday, bumping you back to Monday again. When you plan it out and do the math, this means that by your 13th handgun purchase, you take possession of this pistol a full two weeks earlier if you use the W30D method vs. the 30DB method. Example (Start Day Monday, 1/1/07): 30DB Method 1. Monday 1/1 2. Thursday 2/1 3. Sunday 3/4 (Skip), Monday 3/5 4. Thursday 4/5 5. Sunday 5/6 (Skip), Monday 5/7 6. Thursday 6/7 7. Sunday 7/8 (Skip), Monday 7/9 8. Thursday 8/9 9. Sunday 9/9 (Skip), Monday 9/10 10. Thursday 10/11 11. Sunday 11/11 (Skip), Monday 11/12 12. Thursday 12/13 13. Sunday 1/13 (Skip), Monday 1/14 W30D Method 1. Monday 1/1 2. Wednesday 1/31 3. Friday 3/2 4. Sunday 4/1 (Skip), Monday 4/2 5. Wednesday 5/2 6. Friday 6/1 7. Sunday 7/1 (Skip), Monday 7/2 8. Wednesday 8/1 9. Friday - 8/31 10. Sunday 9/30 (Skip), Monday 10/1 11. Wednesday 10/31 12. Friday 11/30 13. Sunday 12/30 (Skip), Monday 12/31 Days Saved 1. 0 2. 1 3. 3 4. 3 5. 5 6. 6 7. 7 8. 8 9. 10 10. 10 11. 12 12. 13 13. 14 Above schedule does not account for potential holidays that may fall on purchase days. I also did a calc for the ideal "start day" of the year for 30DB (a Wednesday) and W30D (a Tuesday) to maximize the days before hitting the Sunday skip, but it only shaved off two and one days respectively from the last pistol purchase date.

I called the NJSP:FIU today and they (a woman named Janice) confirmed that, given an initial purchase date of the 1st, the earliest purchase date for the next handgun would be the 31st. This is just verbal confirmation though, so to be safe I'm going to wait until I receive email confirmation to put this to the test. My 30th day falls this Saturday, and while I'd much prefer not having to wait till Monday to pick up my next pistol, I don't want to try it until I've gotten something in writing from the NJSP.

What I'm trying to determine is if there is a difference between the way the law is written and the way the state enforces it - and per PK 90 and Ian S, there is. Does anyone else see a problem in that? In any case, I've sent an email to the NJSP FIU and will follow up with a phone call on Monday. P.S. - In reading over the rationale when OGWATDP was being passed, Bryan Miller, Executive Director of Ceasefire NJ, argued "Who needs to buy more than 13 handguns a year?" It is not possible to reach 13 handguns in one year if you must wait a full 30 days between purchases (your 13th handgun would be purchased, at earliest, on 1/7 of the next year).

@ PK90 - As per your example, we can simplify the statue into "one handgun within any one-day period". Please explain then, how 1/1 and 1/2 are both inside a period consisting of exactly one day, when they are two separate days. @ Ian S - "A day begun is a day done." I interpret this to mean that you only start counting the days beginning after your purchase (i.e., the day after is Day 1). When you hit Day 30, you can buy the second pistol - this would be 1/31 if your first was purchased on 1/1. I suspect this rule of thumb was circulated because some were considering the purchase day as Day 1, and thought they could buy the second on Day 30 - which would result in two purchases within the same 30 day period.

I am still getting conflicting answers on this, so I thought it may be a good idea to put it in a poll. Your interpretation of this statute? Brownie points for you if you have any official documents from NJSP!

@ Old School This time around I had added a split lock washer as I had read that doing so would keep the shell plate bolt tight against the drive hub. Unfortunately, it seems to have been the cause of the OAL fluctuation (probably because I didn't tighten it enough or something) by making the shell plate more vulnerable to press flex (i.e., adding a slight spring that could potentially allow more tilt). I removed the lock washer and my OALs became more or less consistent again. I had also mixed in some processed (resized/expanded) brass in with my just tumbled brass, which created a difference in force applied at the top stroke, depending on which type of brass was entering the sizing/decapping die. I isolated out the few pieces of processed brass and ran those separately, and I found that they tended to seat shorter than the unprocessed brass by about .003-.005", again most likely due to less press flex at the top stroke. @ Tony I'm loading Berry's DS-HBFP 124gr, at light target loads (3.7gr Titegroup). With my pistol and this bullet type, 3.3gr Titegroup resulted in a consistently weak ejection (right next to my hand) so I should be in the mid/low load range for this bullet/powder combo.

No, it's not a dirty joke I was reloading some more 9mm on the LNL AP and the OALs started to open up on me again - my target is about 1.069, and got a few that were in the 1.052-1.062 range. Are these shorter rounds okay to shoot, or should I lengthen them a bit with the kinetic puller? I read somewhere that after 1/16th" - 1/8th" you start running into potential pressure issues with 9mm - is that true? My difference is about 1/64th" - should I be worried? Not positive why the OALs fluctuated more this time, but it's either because I had some deprimed/resized/expanded brass already in the mix with my recently-tumbled-just-fired brass, or because I added a split lock ring between the shellplate washer and bolt. I'll do a few more controlled tests to figure out why.

@ Babaganoosh I read a bit more on the OAL issue and it looks like it's common on progressives to have different seating depths when running a full tray vs. seating station only, due to press flex and/or shellplate flex. So I calibrated my seater die while running a full plate and am getting much better results, so long as I'm always going progressive; my target for my particular 9mm load is 1.069, and about 80% are +/- .002 of that number, with extreme outliers at 1.073 and 1.062 (not sure how that one got there, as it was in the middle of the batch I was loading). The last three rounds were slightly short at about 1.065-1.066ish, again probably due to the press flex issue. I wanted to pick up extra primer feed tubes but it seems like they're all outta stock at Midway... and I really wanna place an order for extra case retaining springs if/when this one shears on me.... Thanks for the warning about the Hornady flip tray; I'll get the RCBS one instead. I'm good on the scale/micrometer, and will probably get some One Shot Case Lube and more degreaser/dry lube the next time I have an order by Ground shipping. Any point in getting the powder measure drain insert? Seems like it'd be more convenient than emptying from the top. And, uh, grease guns? I don't know much about them. Are most grease gun nozzle thingers compatible with the fittings for this press, or do I have to find something special?

Got the press today and loaded a few dozen rounds. It left me with a couple questions: Is the press supposed to include a primer flip tray? Mine did not. After you load the primers into the main feed tube, I'm guessing there's no easy way to get them back out again? It's fine to just leave them in there? I got some inconsistent OALs (too long) when seating progressively, so I had to run the rounds single stage through just the seating station, after which the OAL was correct. What am I doing wrong there? Is it just a technique issue?

@Jon - Yes, you're right, my bad. I was looking at the stock photo with the powder drop at station two, but that's set up for rifle and no need to resize/expand in two steps.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll post some photos of the unpack and setup if there's any interest in seeing them - though it looks like most of that is covered in Hornady's vids. I didn't opt for the powder through expanders, so expanding will be done on station 3, leaving 4 and 5 for seating and taper crimping (9mm). Seems like most of you guys use powder checks or powder cop dies? Is it absolutely necessary? I plan to rig a small light to shine in on the charged case, and will have a powder template case (i.e. a case with a line drawn on it at the correct powder level) to visually ensure the right charge.

Ordered this the other day - should be coming next week. Any tips to share that aren't covered in Hornady's instructional youtube vids?

Who stocks mil-surp rifles in North Jersey?? So far I've only seen a handful at Hackettstown Guns & Ammo. I'm looking for an SKS, preferably a Norinco or other non-Yugo.

Okay got it! Sorry for being thick skulled, I just don't wanna break the law by being overeager and not knowing how to count

Not sure I follow - you're saying that you have to have 30 days between purchases, which excludes the day you purchase the pistol? Wouldn't that mean if you purchased on Day 1, you had to wait another 30 days before making your next purchase on Day 32? That's different from how the statute reads, unless I'm completely misinterpreting it.

N.J.S.2C:58-2; (7) - A dealer shall not knowingly deliver more than one handgun to any person within any 30-day period. (Full text http://www.njleg.sta...000/1774_I1.HTM) It's a 30d period, so the day of purchase is included, and for 29 days after that, you can't purchase. I think it would be Day 1, Day 31, Day 61, Day 91, Day 121, Day 151. The seventh would still fall under Day 181 at its earliest so the max 6 usable permits still makes sense. Even if you could get away with a purchase on Day 181, the schedule may not work out logistically as the issue date might not agree with the actual date you receive your permits, or you may not be able to process one purchase exactly 30 days after your previous one (gun store/FFL is closed, NICS is down, etc.).

So, hypothetically speaking, what happens if you find a typo or clerical mistake on the pistol permits issued by your PD? Say they put down the wrong height, weight, eye color, or race. If you bring it to their attention, do you have to do the whole process over again to get this corrected (i.e. do they make you wait), or will they reissue/correct the mistake on the spot? Purely conjecture, of course...

Thank you all And as to the AK vs. AR discussion, I'd be the heretic in the back with the SKS...

I'm finally a part of the secret society of NJ gun owners Got my membership card, permits (thank you, Fair Lawn PD), and first pistol today, and joining Cherry Ridge this weekend - things are definitely looking up! Now who's gonna show me the secret handshake???

1. Application type: Initial FID and 3 handgun puchase permits 2. Police Department where you applied - Fair Lawn 3. Name of the person you dealt with at the PD - Detective Ferreira, Detective Roskowsky 4. Time taken to issue FID and/or permit - 52 Days 5. Documents required by the PD (aside from the standard application and the mental health release form) - Notarized document stating that you are not a convict/alcoholic/drug dependent etc. 6. Notes - anything pertaining to the application process (unforeseen difficulties, chief of police calling your home, you hiring an attorney, etc.) - They quoted me a 6-8 week time frame, and it took 7.5 weeks, so pretty accurate. They do these in batches as another forum member applied about 10d after me and got his FID/permits the same day I got mine. Additional permits also take 6-8 weeks, or so I was told. Don't bother calling until at least 6 weeks have passed - they usually don't pick up anyway.

I'm not sure how common these are to find in gun shops, but they had one at Ramsey Outdoor in Ramsey when I stopped by on Saturday. The gun was massive, had a very heavy DA pull, and an even heavier price tag at just over $2K, but it was pretty cool having finally seen one in person.

@ Duppie I moved to NJ from NY, and three of the five gun stores I visited wouldn't let me touch a gun. Of the remaining two, in one I didn't ask to handle anything, but in the other, they let me fondle and dry fire whichever pistol I asked about. When my FID/P2Ps come in this week, guess where I'll be picking up my first pistol? I understand that it may be a store's policy due to safety/liability, but the "no FID, you're not worth my time" attitude does not make for return customers once said customers actually are capable of purchasing. I really don't know what some salesmen are thinking when they are dismissive or outright rude to new, potential customers.

Well, the frame plans did say 72" minimum as the overall height, so I'd think 6" taller would be okay. Nevertheless I'll bring a saw and miter box along

Ended up making my own target frame... materials cost was about $16. I think it turned out pretty good! I made it about 6" taller than Cherry Ridge's plans so that the legs would be even with the top of the frame. Also used 1x2s instead of 2x2s for the crossbars. When folded, it locks up fairly tight with hooks & eyes. And I already added a sheet of cardboard backing but had to fasten it with finishing nails since the cardboard was too thick for my staple gun. By far the hardest part was finding a pair of straight 2x2s at Home Depot

Thanks for the replies guys. Always good when everyone's saying the same things