wooly bugger

I think the two strongest arguments are: 1) common use test: a 10 round limit bans most *standard* so by definition firearm configurations 2) a premeditated bad guy can carry a satchel full of magazines and extra guns in a bag. if you've responsibly stored your gun in a bedside safe, your're going to be going to reach over, pull out your (1) gun, and have to face the guy. 3) "highly trained" NYPD have a 6.5% hit rate under pressure. That means that with a 10 round limit, there's a 50% chance you're not going to get even one hit.

Yes, I do. At least those of us who have donated. Those who haven't can put up or shut up. I think it's helpful feedback for them on where we think the money is best spent. That's a good point about the rally. Thank you. I don't mean to imply that they aren't spending our money wisely. On the contrary, they're the two best (and only) allies we have in this fight and are doing a great job mobilizing and educating.

Having donated to both, I'm wondering how they're spending the money. They've got >$10k for the operation establish compliance, and it seems to be working, but has it cost money or just time? I hope they're just building up a war chest for the upcoming litigation.

In response to willsj's idea, I've just sent basspro an email. If you want to do the same with minimal effort, you can click on the contact page below and copy and paste my email. https://basspro.custhelp.com/app/ask/session/L3RpbWUvMTM2MjE1MTg0Ny9zaWQvakRUR2E0a2w%3D I understand you are considering building a store in Atlantic City, NJ. As you may know, a number of draconian anti-gun bills are being considered in this state. Many sporting and firearm vendors have been withdrawing business from states with unconstitutional gun laws. I ask that you reconsider your new store, in light of pending legislation, and let our governor know that your plans will hinge on the outcome of the currently pending bills.

How about a "reach out to 3 gun owners" pyramid scheme? I've been going out of my way to educate gun owners who aren't connected to forums and email lists. I'm encouraged to see that there are plenty of non-internet people out there who know what's going on. I'm really disappointed in the NRA. It would cost them nothing to send out NJ-tailored action alerts or even to give some money to one of our local groups to post full page ads. I wish I could get back my life membership dues and give them to our local orgs.

The more I think of it, the more I think the TWL may turn out to be completely symbolic. How exactly is that going to work? Is there a hotline that PDs can call to check if someone is on the list? It takes two to tango on this one, and I'm not sure the feds are exactly going to jump at the opportunity to make more work for themselves and to bring the shadowy list into the light when it doesn't benefit them.

I like the ad idea. How much would a full page ad cost? Is there a way to form our own PAC, so we can each donate and have a "board" decide how best to spend the funds? It would make it a lot easier than someone fronting the money and then relying on people to send in checks.

As per the discussion in the district 38 thread, Eustace and Wagner. I think it's important to concentrate resources where there's a real chance of success, and that district qualifies.

Here are the election results. Wouldn't have taken much to swing the election. I think we could do that with grass roots campaigning.

Funny, there was an ultraconservative, homophobic guy in college. Everyone kept telling him to just accept the fact that he's gay. At our 15th year reunion, it was quite clear he had. One of the areas I differ from many of the conservatives is on gay rights and marriage. I'm strongly pro both. So I'm glad that the environment is getting to the point where there's less pressure for people to suppress their natural preferences.

You wouldn't have to talk! Put together a flyer, hire some HS kids to go door to door for 100 signatures, and then run a few newspaper ads. The idea isn't to win. It's to make them spend down campaign funds in the primary. Remember, they didn't have to spend anything in last primary and still Repub candidates came very close. If we can cost them just a few thousand dollars in the primary, that might tip the balance. I'll give you start up money and help with leg work, and I'm sure others will also contribute. I think at least it's worth discussing with Bob at NJ2AS.

I'm ignorant of Constitutional law, which puts me in good company. After all, our CINC, a Constitutional law professor, has already been slapped down twice by SCOTUS. Editorialization aside, does this mean NJ can only keep me from being lazy and saving myself a 20 minute drive by ordering directly from Heritage Guild? I wonder if they would try to defend by saying they're not stopping commerce, just requiring that once in state, they you just have to go through an intermediary. In response to that, it seems that gun shops could refuse to play along, which makes the law a de facto ban.

BTW, I heard we burnt out his fax, so I'm going to wait a couple of days to let him get a new one before faxing this.

Dear Mr. Sweeney, I would like to express my objection to the committee substitute for Assembly bills A3645, A3646, A3666, and A3750, which would require all ammunition sales to occur face to face. This consolidated bill is overly restrictive to legitimate buyers, while providing no impediment to illegal purchases. In fact, online purchases create GREATER accountability than face to face. In addition to an ID, the user must provide a credit card and physical address. If this is not enough, an FPIC could also be required, as many vendors voluntarily do. As a model piece of legislation, here is what Illinois, a very restrictive state, mandates. (430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3) Sec. 3. (b‑5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents. You can see that this provides three layers for security: FPIC, driver’s license, physical address. If needed, a fourth level could be added: a valid credit card. It would be extremely difficult for a criminal to procure an untraceable physical address and then forge the other three forms of identification, all matching that address. Eliminating online sales imposes a significant burden. There are thousands of types of ammunition, most of which are not available in physical stores. With a dwindling number of gun stores, driving to one can entail a very long trip, and this can’t even be combined with a trip to the range, because any deviation between home and the range, even to buy ammunition, makes the driver a felon. A good analogy would be limiting readers to the selection available at the local book store, with few bookstores in the state and a prohibition on combining that trip with any other errands. Let’s be realistic, anyone with the wherewithal to obtain an illegal gun probably obtained a side order of ammunition to go with that gun. And rather than navigate through the four levels of security outlined above, it would be much easier to just make a quick drive over to PA or DE, walk into a gun store, and pay cash, without showing ID. I know that in this environment, it is politically expedient to pass laws imposing arbitrary hardship on gun owners. I would ask that ideally, this bill would be seen for what it is and stopped. If such symbolic legislation must go through, please at least try to minimize the unnecessary burden on lawful citizens. Thank you.

That's one of the best suggestions I've seen. I think it's a good argument point with a lot of the antis. Next time I engage one in conversation, I'll take it a step further and offer to pay the fees.

That would never work. As soon as the people who want "more gun control" are finished selling us down the river and settle down for a nice movie, they'll be outraged at how tame and untitillating it is. There's a phenomenon in psychiatry called "projection," It's a way of explaining behavior that states that people tend to project their own fears and impulses onto others. So, inherently violent people are the ones most likely to be terrified by the thought of others having guns....because they assume we must internally harbor the same violent fantasies.

NY is a major hunting and gun ownership center, it rivals Pennsylvania with 1,000,000's of gun owners. I can see them needing an exemption, too.

It was an excellent experience, other than that annoying minister and the mind numbing psychologist woman. Just like the SAFE meeting, I went in ready for a fight and was surprised to hear that everyone was so reasonable. If normal people can get together and talk in good faith like that, why can't our politicians? I don't know how anyone can say the SAFE meetings were anti-gun. At least the one in Newark wasn't so in the least. Was she even there? I'm going to send her a thank you note for putting that together.

Great job on that topic. I'm sure more than a few were surprised that you can't, as one acquaintance told me, "walk into a Walmart and buy an AK-47."

That's why I can no longer listen to NPR or read the NYT.

Pro-gun guy just have an excellent talk. Wish I'd taped the whole thing but got just the last 45 sec. Resounding applause.

Check out the Excalibur. I got one recently and love it. It's simple and rugged and you can change strings in the field, unlike a compound. The customer service is the best. If you have a problem, you just call Danny Miller, and whatever is wrong, he will tell you how to make it right or will send you what you need to fix it, free.

This is a complete waste of time. Panelists just reading predictable lectures off a piece of paper. No discussion. I can't believe these people are "prominent experts." A bunch of 10th graders could do better. Anyone from the forum here? I'm sitting near the podium wearing green flannel and glasses.

Great. I was thinking about point one myself. Are the Feds going to answer the phone each time a police chief who may or may not be legit and say, "home on while I go to my filing cabinet and check that list for you..."

Don't see how it's conspiracy as long as each makes an independent decision. Glock would be the biggest how many LE use them