I'm gonna come right out and say that CCW/civilian "assistance" wouldn't have done anything at all in this situation except make it worse.

 

Agree 100% here

 

This was just a shame.....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

Unless there was someone else there in the room, it wouldn't have helped. The eyewitness was the construction worker, who couldn't do a legit shoot from outside looking in like that.. Can't shoot 'em while they're walking away really....

 

Yeah, you're probably right. But the Dirty Harry in me wishes someone was there (with a CCW) and whistled so the Dirtbag would turn around to get 2-3 in the chest! Why can't it be like in the movies, when the good guys don't get shot-up as collateral damage?

Not much anyone can do about something like this. The victim had a restaining order against this guy back in 2011. There have been complaints filed against each other for some time now.

Not much anyone can do about something like this. The victim had a restaining order against this guy back in 2011. There have been complaints filed against each other for some time now.

 

Same old same old.

 

The laws we have need better enforcement, rather then throwing on more additional laws that nobody( criminals ) wont follow.

Bloom$hit, you will have so much fun sensationalizing all of this and blaming the .45 ACP handgun. Thank you for continually looking out for the safety of your subjects.

 

Mayor Mike, did that gun come from a police locker? Why were your officers with their crappy NYC triggers outgunned by what appears to be a 1911? Have you considered opening up some ranges around the city for your cops to practice on? Is there any evidence that your officers that went to Arizona gun shows and Virginia gun stores brought that gun back with them? Is there any evidence that that gun came from Mexico? Have you considered that maybe the magazine capacity of the magazines your officers were carrying was too much and resulted in excessive collateral damage to people and buildings? Did the shooter have baby formula on his breath? Where was Schumer when all this schumer happened?

I'm gonna come right out and say that CCW/civilian "assistance" wouldn't have done anything at all in this situation except make it worse.

Agreed. ÇCW probably would have been shot by responding officers to boot.

 

There is only one way to truly prevent this. If someone you know to be dangerous threatens your life... you strike first.

I'm gonna come right out and say that CCW/civilian "assistance" wouldn't have done anything at all in this situation except make it worse.

I think you are forgetting that the target of the attack may have been able to stop the shooter if he had CCW...

Weird. Guy lives on the UES, wonder if he even had a NY Pistol licence. Doesn't seem to be the type to have firearms (fashion designer) and had an RO against him? Liberal goes and buys illegal gun? Or if it were bought legally, wasn't taken away when the RO was issued?

I would bet that it will come out that all the injured were shot by cops, but they did the right thing, IMHO. They needed to stop the threat, end of story. It is a crowded area, but there was little choice. If they let him get some shots off it may have been worse. I am also 100% certain there will be lots of lawsuits filed by ambulance chasers against the city.

Weird. Guy lives on the UES, wonder if he even had a NY Pistol licence. Doesn't seem to be the type to have firearms (fashion designer) and had an RO against him? Liberal goes and buys illegal gun? Or if it were bought legally, wasn't taken away when the RO was issued?

I would bet that it will come out that all the injured were shot by cops, but they did the right thing, IMHO. They needed to stop the threat, end of story. It is a crowded area, but there was little choice. If they let him get some shots off it may have been worse. I am also 100% certain there will be lots of lawsuits filed by ambulance chasers against the city.

 

Maybe he dug into uncle Bob s bringback closet or had it for years unregistered........the story will come out.

 

Ambulance chasers probably filing as we speak.

CBS.com reported that he bought it legally in FLA when he was a resident but did not have a NYC permit of any kind for it.

That piece of paper did Mr Ecolino a whole bunch of good I see.

 

Secondly, I'm going to take a wild guess and say Mr Perpetrator used a 1911, and some reports indicate he fired at Mr Ercolino 4x leaving 4 left in his mag (assuming he didn't switch to a full mag). If 9 people were shot and Mr Perpetrator only had 4 left in his mag, then, assuming a 100% hit rate by the perp (unlikely) 5 innocent bystanders were victims of friendly fire. Those are unacceptable statistics.

 

I think Mayor AzzHat should, instead of worrying about banning trans fats or large sodas require his officers to have more force on force training in order that they can better respond to these type of situations.

 

Daniel, you sir are 100% correct

Here we go. Start the LEO bashing from a bunch of monday morning quaterbacks.

While it sux and may be wrong, sheit happens. And like someone else said... It's not easy firing in a crowd.

 

Here is a scenario for you. All the cops stopped to think that there is No safe way to fire at the perp because the line of fire was not clear. So they stood fast just pointing their weapons. Perp turns and empties out the rest of his weapon on anyone he can hit. What scenario would you rather have? Would you be there and say, " Eeek! Please Mr Occiffer... Don't shoot him, you might hit me..." or, "shoot the bastard please before he kills all of us!" Kinda hard to hit one bumble bee in a swarm...

Just saying...

 

Do we always have to be against LEOs in everything we discuss here? Could you have done better in a similar scenario?

Geezus! Enough cop bashing already... Getting tired of the bashing all the time!

 

Trigger happy cops managed to shoot 8 innocent bystanders. Ya. great work. They should all be fired!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

You read my mind... I'm fooking sick of it!

 

Here we go. Start the LEO bashing from a bunch of monday morning quaterbacks.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

I am really starting to get annoyed at the tough guy i could have done better if i were allowed to carry attitude. Most of the tough talkers would shit their pants in a real life or death scenario. What would you do if you pull up to a scene and started getting shot at. Get out, get cover and engage the threat. In a situation like today there is no way collateral damage could have been avoided. This will just start a fight now so i guess this thread will be locked soon.

The Post has a video. It shows the cops chasing him and shooting him. After the cop approaches he pulls the gun out and surprises the first cop.....its a little hazy but shows how he got shot..

 

Its Graphic.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/shot_at_empire_state_building_Ycd08ZMPwDQf7r8qSKX3yO

 

*edit*

 

taking the high road.. I wont put my 2 cents in until the investigation has been completed.

Take Note.......

 

I will Unapprove / delete all posts that bash the NYPD for their actions today......

 

I am tired of armchair monday morning quarterbacks also.....

Victim has RO against gunman.

 

Gunman shoots victim.

Police encounter with gunman.

Gunman draws on police.

Police fire on gunman.

Bystanders are hit by police.

 

Assuming this is mostly factual, I have a few observations and expectations.

 

Restraining Orders are useless. Well, not always, but as shown, if someone really wants to, the RO isn't going to mean a thing.

NYC gunlaws are useless. Again, if someone has the intent and motive, they will find the capability. A law isn't going to do jack.

Police had no choice but to shoot. Unfortunately, they hit others in addition to the gunman. I expect they will be cleared of any wrongdoing. They should be.

If a similar incident occurred and it was not the police that hit bystanders, I'd hope they would be cleared too, but doubt it would end up as simple and easy. I hope I'd be wrong.

Just thinking how those LEO feel after today, and what they had to go through, you know, running TOWARDS the gunfire when everyone else ran AWAY. That, regardless of the outcome and casualties, is something to applaud. Not every shooting should revert to CCW. A lobby/sidewalk full of people would have been helpless under any condition in this circumstance. It's funny how there is one thread questioning why there is a low presence of LEO on the boards, and then you have thread like this that start bashing..ridiculous how some people can just assume the hell out everything.

First order of business, get rid of all 12lb triggers.

First order of business, get rid of all 12lb triggers.

 

In a nutshell, you've summarized what I was going to say. Once again, all of the SHTF between 7-10 yards........

I am really starting to get annoyed at the tough guy i could have done better if i were allowed to carry attitude. Most of the tough talkers would shit their pants in a real life or death scenario. What would you do if you pull up to a scene and started getting shot at. Get out, get cover and engage the threat. In a situation like today there is no way collateral damage could have been avoided. This will just start a fight now so i guess this thread will be locked soon.

 

Normal people run away from a shooter. Those in blue have to run towards the shooter. This is real life; worrying about what kind of shoes to wear to the range seems kinda silly.

Fact: Cops shot bystanders.

 

That's not cop bashing.

 

Still the gunman's fault, anyway you slice it...

 

Let's say you are being chased by officers, and due to the pursuit, one of the squad cars runs over an old lady (not intentional). That injury/death falls on the person being chased, since it would not have occurred if police officers weren't responding. The police would not have shot the civilians if this guy didn't start shooting. With that being said, the injured civilians can and likely will civilly sue the NYPD for damages... and I'm sure they will win.

 

Let's say the gunman survived and a victim an officer shot died (also assume that there is no reason the officer would be charged, like drugs or alcohol in his/her system). The gunman would be charged with First Degree murder for anyone he directly killed, and someone indirectly killed would result in a felony murder charge (death due to the commission of a felony; I believe is a Second Degree murder in NY).

 

It played out the way it played out. Crappy situation for anyone to respond to, but at least officers were alerted before this guy could walk away, possibly confronting others that he was upset with.

It amazes me that some of the people here are truly advocates for the 2a. The keyboard Rambos really need to settle down and can speak when thy have acted in a fight or flight scenario. I don't know if it's immaturity or the safety of their computers that let people think they have the answers in these situations. When I hear radio run of shots fired, man with a knife/gun my first instinct is what is the fastest way there. That's the same for any police officer. Normal people don't have that. That's fine but don't pretend you know what it's like or say what you would do.

Had a feeling people were being hit by police fire................anyone know how many were hit with 9mm......it should be obvious for their attorneys.

Here we go. Start the LEO bashing from a bunch of monday morning quaterbacks.

No bashing here.

Guys - stop with the criticizm of the NYPD's actions. No armchair quarterbacking from a Tivo'd game. It's over and done.

Just thinking how those LEO feel after today, and what they had to go through, you know, running TOWARDS the gunfire when everyone else ran AWAY. That, regardless of the outcome and casualties, is something to applaud. Not every shooting should revert to CCW. A lobby/sidewalk full of people would have been helpless under any condition in this circumstance. It's funny how there is one thread questioning why there is a low presence of LEO on the boards, and then you have thread like this that start bashing..ridiculous how some people can just assume the hell out everything.

 

Have to say I agree. Not much of a video, but it is clear that when the guy pulled up his gun and pointed it at the officers, all within 5 yards, the officers acted bravely and stood their ground. They didn't even attempt to shield themselves just stopped and engaged. Ofcourse this is just a piece of the story and can't see what happend before this, but based on what I saw looked like these officers deserve some respect. Extremely difficult situation.

Having just seen a bit of it on News 12. I will add this The police were told by a construction worker which way he had fled. They followed verbally confronted and he drew they fired he died. They defend their lives. I just hope Mayor Dumbberg doesn't use this as one more push to restrict guns.

 

One last thing to those that have enlisted, volunteer, or get paid to server and protect our cities , states and country do a job that most people don't want to or should not .

 

here is the link to News 12. http://www.news12.com/index.jsp