58 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I don’t wanna say the word is on the street about the administration of this forum... but the word word is on the street 

Hope they listen better than they listened to DarrenF.........

1 hour ago, myhatinthering said:

Service?  that mode of thinking needs changing.  its a job, well paid, great benefits and nothing more.

When I think of "service", I think of men and women who handed the US government a check with their life as the value.  I do not think of city or state or federal employees are doing a "service".  I thought that was just me, I guess others feel that way as well.

Guess I'll take my gunz and boolits somewhere else. 

Sorry to hear what y'all going thru. 

I would have asked for refund on membership. 

No Bueno. 

18 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Hope they listen better than they listened to DarrenF.........

@Darrenf had a better chance 

Why's everyone nitpicking over the word "service"? Government jobs have long been referred to as "public service" jobs because they provide a service to the public (whether it be police, EMTs, fire fighters, public hospital staff, etc.)

I'm sure I'm not going to change anyone's thinking on this... but my view is this: If some moron plows into my car on the Interstate... and I'm trapped inside like a sad little twisted pretzel, I'll be extremely thankful for each and every "public servant" that arrives on the scene (to direct the oncoming traffic, use the jaws of life to cut me out of the car, lift me onto the stretcher and provide first aid, etc). I have no problem thanking (in particular!) any first responder for their "service". Those are services that help keep order and yet it's all pretty damn thankless work. Those folks seem to catch an awful lot of flak from ordinary citizens (who tend to be pretty rude IMO).

I don't see how appreciating those services in any way diminishes the service of veterans, living or deceased. Apples and oranges. I appreciate both groups.

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Why's everyone nitpicking over the word "service"? Government jobs have long been referred to as "public service" jobs because they provide a service to the public (whether it be police, EMTs, fire fighters, public hospital staff, etc.)

I'm sure I'm not going to change anyone's thinking on this... but my view is this: If some moron plows into my car on the Interstate... and I'm trapped inside like a sad little twisted pretzel, I'll be extremely thankful for each and every "public servant" that arrives on the scene (to direct the oncoming traffic, use the jaws of life to cut me out of the car, lift me onto the stretcher and provide first aid, etc). I have no problem thanking (in particular!) any first responder for their "service". Those are services that help keep order and yet it's all pretty damn thankless work. Those folks seem to catch an awful lot of flak from ordinary citizens (who tend to be pretty rude IMO).

I don't see how appreciating those services in any way diminishes the service of veterans, living or deceased. Apples and oranges. I appreciate both groups.

Peel, you & I are cut from the same bolt of cloth.  You just typed what I was trying to say w/o me using 3 paragraphs.

It's what I was taught growing-up (thanking 1st Responders).  40 years ago I was one myself.  Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers fellas.

And now back to our regular P&M contest, lol.

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I'll be extremely thankful for each and every "public servant" that arrives on the scene (to direct the oncoming traffic, use the jaws of life to cut me out of the car, lift me onto the stretcher and provide first aid, etc). I have no problem thanking (in particular!) any first responder for their "service".

Actually, I think that was a bad example of "public servants". In most towns in NJ, First Responders (fire, rescue, CERT) are volunteers, and aren't being compensated by the government, like your typical government worker. It isn't a government job.

You SHOULD thank them for their service, they're providing them to you for FREE, unlike the police, hospital workers, road department, etc.

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Why's everyone nitpicking over the word "service"? Government jobs have long been referred to as "public service" jobs because they provide a service to the public

Just wondering, do you include trash collectors, water and sewer department, snow plow drivers, tax collectors, teachers, animal control, etc. in that group and thank them for their service as government employees?

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I don't see how appreciating those services in any way diminishes the service of veterans, living or deceased. Apples and oranges.

I think that's because the word "service" is being used too generic. The level of "service" a municipal worker provides is just a bit different than what "service" a guy on the front line in Iraq provides. This is where we need to make a better distinction.

 

21 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Actually, I think that was a bad example of "public servants". In most towns in NJ, First Responders (fire, rescue, CERT) are volunteers, and aren't being compensated by the government, like your typical government worker. It isn't a government job.

You SHOULD thank them for their service, they're providing them to you for FREE, unlike the police, hospital workers, road department, etc.

Just wondering, do you include trash collectors, water and sewer department, snow plow drivers, tax collectors, teachers, animal control, etc. in that group and thank them for their service as government employees?

I think that's because the word "service" is being used too generic. The level of "service" a municipal worker provides is just a bit different than what "service" a guy on the front line in Iraq provides. This is where we need to make a better distinction.

 

Well played.....

50 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Actually, I think that was a bad example of "public servants". In most towns in NJ, First Responders (fire, rescue, CERT) are volunteers, and aren't being compensated by the government, like your typical government worker. It isn't a government job.

You SHOULD thank them for their service, they're providing them to you for FREE, unlike the police, hospital workers, road department, etc.

Just wondering, do you include trash collectors, water and sewer department, snow plow drivers, tax collectors, teachers, animal control, etc. in that group and thank them for their service as government employees?

I think that's because the word "service" is being used too generic. The level of "service" a municipal worker provides is just a bit different than what "service" a guy on the front line in Iraq provides. This is where we need to make a better distinction.

 

Confusing definitions.  If you're trapped in your car 99% of the time the police will get there first.  If they don't stabilize and contain the situation there may not be anything for the rescue squad to do.

It seems you're trying to say if you get paid for it it can't be a public service job.

Most people use the term "service" with a broad brush.  Maybe we should not give veteran's benefits to those who were only cooks, clerks, and supply types.

Guess I'll take my gunz and boolits somewhere else. 
Sorry to hear what y'all going thru. 
I would have asked for refund on membership. 
No Bueno. 

I was very tempted to ask for a refund, but I’m hoping they will see the light.


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Wait..what?...
So the men and women serving in Iraq, etc.. get paid and aren't just volunteering? They're not doing a public service? I'm confused.

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13 hours ago, Zeke said:

Surprised?

Not really.

And holy shit did this thread get way off topic.

When a cop handcuffs you for having an 11 round magazine, he is doing a "service".  Right

9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Confusing definitions.

That was my point.

9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

If you're trapped in your car 99% of the time the police will get there first.  If they don't stabilize and contain the situation there may not be anything for the rescue squad to do.

I was a first responder. I was a volunteer. I never considered myself a government employee providing a "public service" or was  a "public servant". I was helping my town and free to be involved at any level. Many times I got to the scene BEFORE the cops got there and provided the necessary attention.  Where's my pay check?

9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Most people use the term "service" with a broad brush.  Maybe we should not give veteran's benefits to those who were only cooks, clerks, and supply types.

Once again, that's my point. There's no way I compare the "service" a guy who volunteers to join the Marines, and gets sent to Iraq to fight for the country (even if he gets a pay check) to the guy who provides a municipal "service" by cleaning the sewers on my street.

In my opinion, not even in the same universe, and shouldn't be classified or grouped as such for their "service".

 

I think it's all about recognizing those who put themselves in harms way in the "service" of protecting our lives.  Pay (career vs volunteer) doesn't matter, and this would include military, first responders, law enforcement, fire, and ems.

36 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

That was my point.

I was a first responder. I was a volunteer. I never considered myself a government employee providing a "public service" or was  a "public servant". I was helping my town and free to be involved at any level. Many times I got to the scene BEFORE the cops got there and provided the necessary attention.  Where's my pay check?

 

Okay, you couldn't be considered an employee as you weren't getting paid.  Your actions are commendable but the fact is the police are usually first at the scene.

One doesn't ask for a paycheck when they work as a volunteer.

Does being a paid EMT or Paramedic devalue their services?

36 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

 

Once again, that's my point. There's no way I compare the "service" a guy who volunteers to join the Marines, and gets sent to Iraq to fight for the country (even if he gets a pay check) to the guy who provides a municipal "service" by cleaning the sewers on my street.

In my opinion, not even in the same universe, and shouldn't be classified or grouped as such for their "service".

 

I'm not the one throwing around "public service" and "public servant" although I've had a few jobs one might consider as such.

So if someone goes into the military to be a cook, clerk, or any of those other "ash and trash" jobs are they less of a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine because they weren't fighting?

 

So...basically some people don't like the range because they check your weapon and ammo to make sure you aren't doing anything stupid on their property. For checking if a magazine was more than 10 rounds and wanting to let you know about the law?

5 minutes ago, Greenday said:

So...basically some people don't like the range because they check your weapon and ammo to make sure you aren't doing anything stupid on their property. For checking if a magazine was more than 10 rounds and wanting to let you know about the law?

No.

People don't like the range because they force you to let them search YOUR BAG before letting you go on.

This is not checking out your guns that you have out of your bag, etc.

I feel anything you have out in public is fair game.. i.e. you are shooting in a port.

But going through all the content in a shooter's bag?  What if you have medical supplies in there or a female shooter with her needs.  Do you need to show that?

It's a massive invasion of privacy.

18 hours ago, Darrenf said:

How did you reach out to them, and have you heard anything back?


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Via their facebook account where they are quite active.  And have not.  Next step will be a call... although I have this really good idea for a drop by visit... but alas they are hella far.

12 minutes ago, Greenday said:

So...basically some people don't like the range because they check your weapon and ammo to make sure you aren't doing anything stupid on their property. For checking if a magazine was more than 10 rounds and wanting to let you know about the law?

You’re implying motive when it hasn’t been established, “to make sure you aren’t doing anything stupid”, and “to let you know about the law”.  You don’t know that’s why they’re doing it and Id challenge that if thst were the reason making it an optional benefit “free compliance check”-type thing would sell better. Making it required leans more toward sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong or a power-trip. 

So...basically some people don't like the range because they check your weapon and ammo to make sure you aren't doing anything stupid on their property. For checking if a magazine was more than 10 rounds and wanting to let you know about the law?

How did I know Greenday would have no problem with someone looking through all his things and providing “supervision”. And of course he misrepresents what the issue being discussed is.


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6 minutes ago, Maksim said:

It's a massive invasion of privacy.

Sadly, Greenday and his crew love having Big Brother watching over them and providing all the daily services. Remember, he's a Bernie Sanders supporter.... Socialist for all!!

 

So was reading that Press of AC article... and am not at all surprised...

Quote

 

"William Wolfson, a 26-year-old from Margate, visited a local gun range while going to school at Stockton. He had never fired a gun before and was surprised with the lack of concern from staff members.

“I was struck by the laissez-faire approach to firearm instruction and safety at this particular range,” Wolfson said in a release. “Despite repeatedly telling the staff that I had never used a firearm before, they weren’t the least bit concerned with instructing me or helping me understand proper protocols.“

He figured there must be a better, safer approach. So, while preparing for an MBA project at school, Wolfson decided to present a theoretical business plan — what would eventually become Range 129 — to his class. When it was well-received, Wolfson said, he began to think seriously about making it a reality.

Last year, with support from his father, Wolfson began planning and research, and broke ground this past April.

 

 

 

https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/atlantic/gun-range-opens-in-absecon-with-focus-on-education/article_f3f401d3-4e16-51f9-a8af-4853014a8544.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR3gL3WKp_AModNktIzjnAisK0tYPF777eSaSCPb4H2xHwIfjOsAdZbPbzI

 

Another range opened by a business guy, and NOT a gun guy?

1 minute ago, Darrenf said:

How did I know Greenday would have no problem with someone looking through all his things and providing “supervision”. And of course he misrepresents what the issue being discussed is.

Ha,,,, we were thinking the same thing!!

Just now, Sniper22 said:

Sadly, Greenday and his crew love having Big Brother watching over them and providing all the daily services. Remember, he's a Bernie Sanders supporter.... Socialist for all!!

 

Let's keep the personal attacks out of it please. =) 

19 minutes ago, Greenday said:

For checking if a magazine was more than 10 rounds and wanting to let you know about the law?

@Greenday

Couldn't they just put a poster up on the wall advising the customers of that law?

20 minutes ago, Greenday said:

So...basically some people don't like the range because they check your weapon and ammo to make sure you aren't doing anything stupid on their property.

Don't they make you watch a safety video and make you sign a liability waiver before they let you shoot?

 

1 minute ago, Sniper22 said:

@Greenday

Couldn't they just put a poster up on the wall advising the customers of that law?

 

And like I tried to explain to Mr. Absolutes, phrasing is important.  You can educate with out being accusatory. Sadly they seem to have no interest in that, yet they think they are all about education.  It seems they think they know it all, which is the worst attitude for an educator to have.

5 minutes ago, Maksim said:

Let's keep the personal attacks out of it please. =) 

Sorry, just stating known facts...

 

The only thing they asked of me was to check my ammo, eye and ear protection. No one searched my bags. No one even touched my bags. That's EXTREMELY reasonable.

25 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

@Greenday

Couldn't they just put a poster up on the wall advising the customers of that law?

Don't they make you watch a safety video and make you sign a liability waiver before they let you shoot?

They could but making conversation isn't harmful.

Yes, just like every single other place. But sadly, if a shooting range in NJ has any accidents, the range and guns will be blamed, not the individual's stupidity.

34 minutes ago, Greenday said:

The only thing they asked of me was to check my ammo, eye and ear protection. No one searched my bags. No one even touched my bags. That's EXTREMELY reasonable.

They could but making conversation isn't harmful.

Yes, just like every single other place. But sadly, if a shooting range in NJ has any accidents, the range and guns will be blamed, not the individual's stupidity.

I call BS on that last part.

There have been numerous accidents and suicides at NJ gun ranges.  In none of the cases has there been backlash at guns or the ranges and people know it is individuals.

If there was, places like SS, BA/GSSC/GFH/BH and others would have been closed down. 

When did they only check your ammo?  Is this a new policy?  Or was this from a while ago?