Elfego El Gato
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Posts posted by Elfego El Gato
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Read this:
Kinnelon cops: Officer serving traffic warrant finds shoeless man with assault rifle6:47 PM, Mar. 2, 2011
Written by STAFF REPORT
KINNELON — A Kinnelon police officer attempting to serve a borough resident with a traffic warrant ended up arresting the man on weapons charges after finding a loaded assault rifle in the man's apartment, police said.
Sgt. Christopher Burns went to the apartment on Garden Place Sunday at 8:56 p.m. looking to serve the warrant to Matthew T. Manges, 42, police said.
Burns encountered Manges in a common hallway which leads to separate apartments and informed him that he had a warrant and that Manges would have to come to Kinnelon Police Headquarters to make bail.
Manges was not wearing any shoes and asked the sergeant if he could retrieve some from his apartment, according to a press release about the arrest, which said that Burns agreed and started to follow Manges into his apartment.
Manges, however, slammed the door closed and then locked it before Burns could get inside, the release said.
After a brief conversation through the door, Manges opened the door and was taken into custody. In the process, however, Burns noticed a Bushmaster assault rifle leaning up in an open closet, the release said.
The rifle was inspected and found to be loaded with 22 rounds in the magazine and one round in the chamber, ready to be fired, police said.
Mages was transported to the Kinnelon Police Department and charged with unlawful possession of a loaded assault rifle, possession of a firearm without a firearm identification card and contempt of court. Manges was transported to the Morris County Correctional Facility in default of $2,350 bail.
Notice what I've highlighted in bold. Do you (the OP) still want to claim I'm wrong about having a gun in NJ without an FID? I don't care what the law says. Once again, it's how it's interpreted that counts. Otherwise, how could this person even be charged with something that, according to the OP, isn't a crime and is perfectly legal in NJ?
Once again, to paraphrase our illustrious Supreme Court: Owning firearms in NJ is done at your own peril.
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You really just don't want to get it, do you? Here it is, as simply as I can possibly put it:
Better safe than sorry.
You can argue the finer points of the law all you want. The cops won't argue with you. They'll send you to argue with the judge. And, judges in NJ have a long history of siding with the cops (remember, the guy who had the "charges dropped," as you put it, was actually granted clemency - not pardoned - by the governor; he is, in fact, still a felon).
Oh, and according to the ATF link, you are a resident of NJ, because your permanent duty station is here. So, the FID is madatory, as you are a NJ resident.
I'm done here. Good luck and keep your head down!
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Read these and get back to me (all taken from the first page of a google search for the terms arrested nj gun laws):
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110118/ap_on_re_us/us_supreme_court_gun_arrest
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2666829/posts
http://www.nationalgunrights.org/it-can-happen-to-you/
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/04/27/jersey-city-case-going-to-nj-supreme-court/
A quote from the NJ Supreme Court decision in the case of NJ v Pelleteri (who was arrested for possessing a Marlin Model 60 .22 rifle):
When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril. In short, we view the statute as a regulatory measure in the interests of the public safety, premised on the thesis that one would hardly be surprised to learn that possession of such a highly dangerous offensive weapon is proscribed absent the requisite license.See? In NJ, the law as written is meaningless. It's the law as interpreted that counts. And, you don't get to do the interpreting; the courts do.
I hope you have deep pockets and lots and lots of time on your hands...
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A friend of mine bought his S&W Model 29 there. He paid a bit too much, because he hadn't done his homework and didn't haggle the price. But, that's his fault, not theirs.
I thought it was a very nice shop, the one time that I visited (it's a little far to be convenient for me). As a milsurp collector, I was both impressed by his offerings (an Arisaka paratropper model, for example) and a little put off by his prices. The condition of the milsurps didn't seem to justify the prices he was asking, especially on the Mosin-Nagants and Chinese SKS's.
As an 03FFL, I can buy from distributors, so I don't really shop retail for milsurps anyway. (And, yes, I have the guns coming from out of state transferred through a NJ 01FFL.) So, his pricing isn't really a concern for me; I was just a little surprised that his prices were so high relative to the condition of the guns.
However, Lou's pricing certainly wasn't any worse than the disreputable thieves at SARCO (can you tell I've had a bad experience - or two - at SARCO?). And, at least I didn't get the feeling that the salesmen were lying to me or trying to misrepresent their products. They just had slightly high prices.
All in all, based on my limited experience, I'd recommend Lou's. They seem like straight-shooters and honest brokers. And, they have a really good selection of shooting supplies, including one-piece cleaning rods, which can be kind of hard to find elsewhere.
Nice shop, nice people. Thumbs up!
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I'm not here to flame, pick on, or anything else. But I encourage you to consult the base legal because they should inform you of what has happened to other soldiers - it has come up before, and I am referring to the instance that happened a few years ago. I know it because I've worked on the base as a government contractor before I even moved here. You're probably getting the runaround on the FPID because of your DL situation. I didn't think there is any exception to requiring anyone living in this state for 60 days, including stationed military. Nonetheless, you will not find a shop who will risk selling to you even if a loophole exists.
NJCK, the OP is talking about going to PA and using his out-of-state, non-NJ DL to purchase a firearm, which he then intends to bring back into NJ. He's doing this because he's frustrated that he hasn't been able to get an FID and he's sick of the runaround.
That's not a loophole; that's a crime. But, he apparently doesn't see it that way and he's willing to take the risk.
He's reading the law as he wants it to read, for his own convenience, regardless of what might have happened to others before him. That's dangerous, but he doesn't seem to care.
The OP asked, "Why are they pulling me over? Why would they be searching my car?" He apparently doesn't realize that just crossing the bridge from PA into Jersey is reason enough for the cops to wonder what you were doing over there... And, as the cops will tell you themselves: If you have a problem with it, take it up with the judge.
This is just a bad thing waiting to happen. Forget the Federal regs and the state's laws. He wants a gun and he's willing to take his chances to get one.
I expect the OP will chime in again to tell me that I'm wrong on the law. But, I can show evidence of people who got burned, even though they were theoretically following the law. In fact, I'd be very surprised to find a mature, legal gun owner in NJ who disagrees with me.
The OP is clearly very young and thinks he knows better than anyone else. I just hope his youthful arrogance (no offence intended) doesn't lead to him spending the better part of his remaining youth in jail (not to mention spending every penny he'll earn for the next thirty years on lawyers). It's happened to others before and will happen to others again. I just hope it doesn't happen to him.
But, you're right -- There's not a gun shop in PA that'll sell to him, if they even suspect that he's bringing the gun back to Jersey. Good for them. I'm sure the diligence of PA gun shop owners has kept more than one New Jerseyan, with some ill-conceived plan to buy a gun, out of jail.
Not to mention, posting this on this forum, being told that you're playing with fire, and then going through with the purchase anyway? Well, you do the math on that one!
No offence to anybody intended. People will do what they want, based on their best assessment of the risk involved. I just think the OP is not judging the risk objectively and it very likely could come back to bite him on the butt. I hope not; but, really, why even take the chance?
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If you're willing to take the risk, that's your choice (obviously). I just hope it doesn't come back to bite you on the butt (and I mean that sincerely).
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I may appear wrong as to the letter of the law, but I've lived in NJ my entire life and I know how things work here. The police, when pulling someone over and finding a gun, ask one question: Do you have a NJ FID? If the answer is "No," they have one response: You're under arrest; if you want to argue, argue with the judge.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you're taking a big risk bringing a gun into NJ without an FID. Just ask the guy who spent a year in jail after being "caught" with his guns, locked in his luggage, while catching a connecting flight at Newark Airport. Or, the guy who was just pardoned by the governor, because he was "caught" with firearms that he brought into NJ legally from Arizona. Or, any of 1,000 others who have gone broke trying to get out of jail, when they had not committed any actual crimes (other than having a gun in Jersey, of course).
Remember that a NJ appeals court recently ruled, "You own a gun in NJ at your own peril."
All I'm saying is, if you want a gun in this state, get the FID. It's a lot cheaper than a lawyer.
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A person who is from Vermont buying a gun in Pennsylvania and bringing it back to where he lives in NJ? That, right there, is a recipe for a mandatory 3 - 5 years in Rahway (the jail, not the city, though I'm not really sure what the difference is... I'm kidding!).
Air Force or not, the law is clear: Military personnel can only possess firearms without an FID *if* the firearms are required as part of their official duty, which they must be engaged in at the time they possess the arms.
Does the OP live on base at MDL? If so, the law may be different inside the fence line. But, since NJ law nullifies Federal law in any number of areas, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just as illegal to possess on base as off. And, the trip to the base from the PA gun store is frought with peril, as well.
This is NJ -- You can play games, but you'll lose. If not your freedom, thousands upon thousands of dollars in legal fees at the very least!
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Hackettstown Guns & Ammo
147 Main Street
Hackettstown, NJ 07840
(908) 852-5260
$15.00 NICS
$25.00 Transfer
$2.80 Tax for a grand total of $42.80
This is where I go, as well. Walt is a great guy and he doesn't look down on you for buying elsewhere, if you find something cheaper than he can sell it. He's just as happy to make money on the transfer fee as he is to sell you a gun. In fact, he even E-mailed me a copy of his 01FFL, so that I could submit it to the sellers myself, whenever I buy from an out-of-state vendor or seller.
I buy from a number of distributers (I'm an 03FFL, though this means little in NJ, as I still have to go through Walt whenever I buy a gun from out-of-state) and sometimes from Bud's in Kentucky. In any case, Walt is happy to accept delivery and transfer the gun for the aforementioned $42.80.
And, even though I'm a "dealer," I've learned quite a bit from Walt, as he stays in close touch with the State Police regarding what's legal and what's not. From him, I learned that a WASR is quite legal in NJ, even if it's milled for a large capacity magazine. You just have to use a 10-round mag to stay within the law (no thirty-rounders for us!). And, although I should have known it, I also found out that SKS rifles are legal in NJ, so long as they have fixed magazines, not detachable ones. I am now the proud owner of both a WASR (lo-cap version, just in case...
) and a Yugoslavian SKS -- Two rifles that I thought were illegal until Walt called the NJ State Police.Again, Walt is a really nice guy, friendly, and very helpful. His employee John is also a terrific person to deal with. I can highly recommend Hackettstown Guns and Ammo for transfers, buying, or just browsing. Even considering the small size of the shop (it's a counter in a police clothing store), he's got a nice little inventory and he can order anything you want.
Just make sure you call before stopping by, as the hours are pretty much when Walt or John can be there...
Gun Shops in PA
in Ranges & Gun Shops
Posted
I apologize if I appeared condescending. It was not my intention. I only posted the article because it was in today's paper and seemed relevant to the topic. That's the last I will participate in this thread. RIP