Shane45

Sights are more a limitation of the shooter than the sights. In the context of a battle rifle, yes they will work generally speaking.

And if your talking a high end 308, the velocity loss is negligable. But if accuracy is your pursuit, the FAL is not the path.

Out of an FAL expect 2 moa.There really is no advantage of 18 over 16.....

I should probably pull this paragraph and put it in its own thread as this thread was really just for the funnies

Just for clarity, when the term practical is applied I take that mean it would be "real world" effective. Not that it would work well in a gun game. So I dont wnat to get hung up in "practical" for gun games . Here is my issues with the 45* mounting solution. IT SUCKS for firing from cover weak side. I could also see an issue loosing the dot when firing from less than ideal positions. But I have never run one so these are just my speculations from handling them. Something else to consider. In my opinion there is no universaly right answer. What works well for some may not work at all for another. Another forum member and I have put a fair amount of time into testing various optics. I would say we are about even as far as shooting ability is concerned. Im a little faster, he is a little more accurate, but they are close enough to be a moot point. Our collected data is not big enough for a detailed analysis yet. We need a big enough sample so that anomolies dont skew the data. AT any rate we did come across a few points I feel comfortable talking about with the current data sample size. That is what I will call the "individual" factor. The data suggested that as an individual, I was considerably better at shooting magnified optics. Conversely the other shooters times and accuracy were almost always better for red dot sights. The tests conducted centered around close distance speed an accuracy. What was also interesting was the difference between us in the distance that we could maintain speed and accuracy in magnified optics. I was able to stay fractions of a second away from my red dot speed with magnified optics to a much closer in distance than the other testor. It was only at 4x @ 25yds did my speed deteriorate significantly. So armed with a bag of theories as to why this was, I went to see an absolute authority on the subject matter. When he gave me his thoughts on the subject, it made a ton of sense and I believe it is correct. Basically he suggested that what our brains are programed to see is what we will perform better with. So my brain is more accepting of a reticle and magnification where the other testors brain is more "programed" to see and accept the red dot. So next we brought out a crash test dummy. Someone that had never fired a rifle with a red dot sight. The interesting comment from the CTD was that he couldnt understand how we could hit anything with the red dot. He had a terrible time trying to see it and super impose it on a target. This seemed to support the theory about what the brain is programmed for and expecting to see. For those of you screeming at your screen right now "what about iron sites", we did do some iron site testing but not enough to really extrapolate a lot of information from. Some of our anomolies came from the iron sight runs so we need more data to form an opinion.

I was going to build a shed. In the end I bought an enclosed trailer instead. No permits needed and I can take it with me if I move.

OIC Something for your consideration OS. Even though I can hit at 2 or 300 yards with irons or a red dot. What I cant do is ID a target friend or foe! So just accurate fire is not the only reason for the magnification. I run a 1 to 4 X optic on my AR making it a broad scectrum capable AR from 0 to 7/800 yards. Aside from SHTF, I can tell you that my times on a coarse of fire tend to be significantly faster with the optic especially if there are longer shots involved. Shane

Old School, you cant cowitt through a magnified optic.

Kids cant be mall ninjas! Hell Id be happy if my son sticks with the airsoft thing. Hes just starting out. His Karate is what cost me an arm and a leg!!! Quick math says his 3 year involvement cost me around $8500!!!! So if war sims costs me 1k Id consider that a bargain. Cant even tell you the arm leg and kidey my buddy pays for all his kids to play ice hockey!!!!

Its basically gun racing with 3 guns instead of one. USN, I could care less what people buy and strap on their rifles. As you alude to, what is important is how effective you are at using it. It is my opinion that MOST firearms owners really have no idea and believe their occasional trip to a static, square range makes them good to go and the accessories they strap on will magically make them more effective. But in the end for most of them its bragging rites. We all know someone with a super hot, super fast car that looks at us like we have two heads when you tell them to get on it, we just got passed by Grandma! Same thing. I know a Z06 owner that I dont think his car has ever seen tripple digits, EVER! Except for the time he let me take it for a spin . I will tell you that there is a problem that exists however. And that is that the simple reality is the the dollars from the mall ninja has made an impact in driving the market. In my view this can be a bad thing. It has been a back room discussion amongst manufacturers you would all recognise the names of. The discussion is about chasing $ or building the right products. In some cases the mall ninja market believes a product should be one way. The real deal guys that have been there want it another way that actually works. Which do you manufacture?

Hell Ray I dont think this is anything new. Back in the day my buds and I used to gear up in vietnam era surplus from the Army Navy store and have weekend long bbgun wars out in the woods. And I have said it before. I think any kids getting their butts off the couch and running around outside like this is fantastic!

If you think there is no functional difference between rail systems.....you have a lot to learn. Yes DD is a real rail system. Why? Because when devices attached to said rail actually fit because its within spec, this matters. When said device recieves a little torque coming up against something like a baracade and doesnt twist or cave the rail it functionally matters. At least it does to me.

If you have done so much research on your selections what is it your looking for, a pat on the back??? Im tired of those that save their pennies and make an emotional investment in thier equipment and then defend their choices like you said their mom is a fat ugly trailer park hag!!!! The reality is that sometimes she IS!

Very well stated Vlad. All I have to add is that if your eyes have a little age on them it makes some of the above even worse! My advice, use your budget to build a solid quality AR. If you have budget left go with a good RDS. Down the road pick up some optics on a QD mount as part of your "kit" for the rifle. In my honest opinion the holy grail of a broad spectrum rifle effective from 0 to XXX meters may really be a 308 semi.

OFWG votes for Buckeye since its like 10 minutes away!!!!

What I would really like to know is if anyone is using one of those cheap HF inverter Tig welders for lite use?????

+1. Looks like lead to me as well.

From my observations it is largely up to if the round connects with internal bracing/brackets etc etc or not. Catch nothing but sheet metal and most things will make it through.

NFR, your preaching to the choir on the topic of self protection and self reliance. The topics, although related, are different. I know for a fact that most of the people that posted in this thread are dedicated shooters with a strong focus on self defence. They are proponents of situational awareness with a "don't be a victim" mindset.

If Im shooting off a bench which is rare, I would bag it. But I mostly shoot prone off the deck.

It has become clear that we are arguing with someone that thinks his own opinions are fact and has demonstrated he truly doesnt understand the subject matter. 2 more things to ponder. Cop or concerned bystander, who the hell is rushing in to a situation everyone sees is being taped in this litigious society!!!!! Again, if activity is at a lull, which in my opinion it was in this vid segment, I think a well trained, experienced police officer will take every advantage of that time to further observe to make informed decisions, give suspects a chance to process commands and or come out of a state of auditory exclusion etc etc. Its a good path to take when there is no clear answer. Again, if the actor started actively stabing again then this would have triggered a justified escalation of force but until then, a few extra seconds to observe and make the right call is smart. Im not saying every officer theere was acting under these pretenses, Im sure 1 of each fits all motivations discussed here.

Personally I dont like my bipod to slip because I load it during firing. If its slipping you cant load it. I like the Atlas V8. I also have the afformentioned Harris but the Atlas is the best in my opinion.

Factions arent the issue and frankly I probably belong to most of them. I own or have owned just about everything from a Hawkin black powder all the way to rifles capable of accurate fire over 1 mile. I think there is only one salient point in this entire thread. Which would make it only 2 groups: Group a that is accepting and supportive of all shooting sports no matter the faction and stands up for all 2A rights. Group b thst is only for their faction and does not support the existance of other factions such as black rifles and are short sighted enough to think their faction is safe and willing to sacrifice other factions in a belief theirs will remain safe. The task at hand is how to convince group b that we either all stand free together or swing in the gallows individually. It matters not who is first in line, they will ALL swing if devided. One only need to shift his gaze to Europe to see the effectiveness of this strategy to dismantle gun ownership.....

DA, Im not saying purchasing isnt at an all time high. My position is that said purchasing isnt mostly driven by interest in the sport. I think those numbers are more driven by massive terrorist attacks on American soil, a general feeling of sociatal uncertainty, a healthy fear of govt gun grabbing, a ton of 2012 type shows and documentaries, and the front and center observations that no one can take care of themselves any more and the govt cant either in a natural disaster. Everyone I know that is a shooter was a shooter before these events. None of the people that have come foward in recent years asking me to indoc them were of th "interest in the sport" catagory, they were all in the latter. (Which is why most of them ended up with a plain 20Ga shotty).