Soju

I feel like you guys are arguing different points. Did the guns from the ridiculous ATF program end up being used to kill people? Yes. Would those people have been killed had they not recieved those guns? Yes. The fact that they would likely have been killed anyways, because they can obtain them through other (probably easier and cheaper) ways, does not mean that those guns from Operation gunrunner/fast and furious/whatever ATF program were not used. I'm thinking you both actually know and agree with each other, yet are driving at different points. Having read both you guys posts, I agree with both of you. The argument isn't that this program is causing more deaths, it is that it isn't helping reduce deaths and at the same time, is illegal, so why was it in place and happening? But I could be wrong. The whole situation is so fugged. That is why there is such a big outcry over it. Well that in the fact that the AG is a lying scumbag that openly breaks laws because he can.

The system is rigged...

So wait, DOJ isn't going to prosecute the head of DOJ? Who would have figured... "Hey boss, congress is saying you probably broke some laws. They want us to charge you." "What? I don't want to be charged!" "Good news sir! It turns out you are in charge anyways." "Hahaha. Hey Eric, should we charge Eric? No Eric, don't charge yourself." "Good one boss!"

I have no remorse for you all. It is those temperatures at night, with the day average being around 110, with highs up to 120. And oh yeah, today, there was no power. And it was 118. And there isn't an ounce of alcohol in sight. Hooray. Only 3 more days...

Quick question. Do they still hand out lollipops at banks? I do most of my banking online so haven't gotten a bank lollipop in ages.

That isn't a priority for them anymore.

I'm also a big fan of being able to read contradictions (or lies, depending on how you look at it) in the same decision. Good read. Glad they were able to mention broccoli 12 times in it. So they acknowledge that it is a 'penalty', and not a tax. Well that is good, because the bill says it is a penalty, not a tax. And that is not authorized, phew, some common sense applied. But wait a minute now... Oh, so despite a clear distinction that we have already acknowledge, we are just going to accept the governments interpretation, and actually CHANGE the bill, because if we don't, it is illegal. But nope, no legislation from the bench here. Look away. We wrote 193 pages quoting other cases, and putting a pretty convincing argument that it is UNconstitutional, and hope you might forget, we actually decided 5-4 that is IS constitutional. Amazing.

I am almost always against forcing somebody to do (or not do) something when not doing (or doing) it causes no harm to anyone else. There is no reason for control on those levels. That is the exact opposite of freedom.

Legally, I would say, yes he could have, based on both the severity of the beating and the fact he is quoted as saying something along the lines of that he thought he was going to die. That means he felt his life was endangered. The supreme court has ruled you are authorized to use force, up to and including deadly force, if necessary, against unlawful use of force by police. But like silverado said, who would believe him? Considering he was illegally assault, detained, arrested, and charged with a made up crime, I'm sure the same department would get a prosecutor to charge him for the use of lawful force. After painting him as a cop killing thug, they'd probably get a conviction too. http://constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/177/529/case.html

Either you know something that I don't or I'm not understanding what you mean. How is carrying a pistol in a holster carrying it 'like a thug'? I am concerned that you are even attempting to justify his beating right now.

They aren't might actual suggestions, I was merely demonstrating, contrary to YOUR point, that because you have an idea, that the lack of other ideas somehow serve to legitimatize yours. That isn't the case, or else my ideas could be somehow legitimate if nobody else had another. They aren't. I thought that was clear. I guess not. I'm sorry you felt insulted. I wasn't attempting to be insulting. I was merely stating an observation that your logic sucked.

In the other article (linked from the first), it stated he was out to watch a performance of a friend. He wasn't drinking. The test administered by the police and hospital showed he had a BAC of 0. He wasn't open carrying. He stated to police that he had a permit. The concealed carry, and open carry, at bars and night clubs, is legal where he was. Considering he was charged with "obstructing the legal process", I'd say there is almost no chance he did anything illegal. What 'legal process' was he obstructing? Never mind, I figured it out. His presence obstructed the officers from performing any legal process, because they were too busy in the illegal process of beating him up. Got it!

He wasn't. Even if he was, the only thing that would make it dumb would be because he would have a greater chance of being beaten up by police. Turns out, that happened anyway. So I suppose carrying a firearm is dumb because you might get assaulted by criminals wearing badges? “No justice, no peace. Prosecute the police,” Sounds very applicable in this case. Won't happen though. Corrupt corrupt corrupt. But we aren't close to a police state....

Ok, I'll give you a couple solutions. Kill everybody on the planet that isn't a US citizen. Require everyone in the US to wear a US citizens ID badge at all times. Anyone caught not wearing one will be arrested and detained indefinitely, and if found to be an illegal citizen, executed. The bodies of those will be then displayed near the border. Build an impenetrable structure that extends both above and below the earth surface 1361 feet and is electrified and extends the length of the border. Now I just gave you 3 other solutions. Using your own logic, because I have 'solutions', and they work, that means they are good ones. Or maybe they aren't and your logic just happens to suck. Call it what you want.

Not having the answer or solution doesn't mean that automatically any proposal or 'solution' you come up with is the right one. There is a word for that. It is called ignorance.

So was the bartender both shot and stabbed? Good thing there is such impeccable writing these days. After reading these 3 sentences I have no idea if the 4 dead are in addition to 13 people being shot, if someone was both shot and stabbed, or what. Very descriptive...

Well based on that data, there are 3 other states that are comparable. North Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont's better neighbor, New Hampshire. All 4 states though have nice fun cold winters.

I was going to say the same thing. There is a reason these things have to go to court. To judge the merit! If it doesn't have merit, she won't get crap. Filing a claim doesn't mean you get free money. It doesn't mean it is legitimate. It doesn't mean it isn't legitimate. Denying someone the ability to do such is judging before you have heard the facts nevertheless a claim. People don't always do what is right. I'd say that actually people tend to do what benefits themselves more often then to do the right thing. So you can either have a system that allows people to present their side of things to a judge or jury, and let them decide, which inherently allows for frivolous and bs claims to be made, or you don't allow anything at all, preventing those bs claims while also preventing every legitimate claim.

Though the legal system is fugged, this is not a problem with the system. This is a problem with people. Based on the article, the kids parents probably wish their son was the next Randy Johnson and hit her in the face with a 100 mph fastball.

Ahaha. If anyone has seen A Cabin in the Woods, it makes this even funnier!

Phew! If it wasn't for those incredibly savvy uniforms, it could have turned out badly when it turns out the house they were raiding was an overgrown forest! Better not take the chance or forget your boonie cap.

So what does that make 'the law' when it isn't followed? Meaningless. Pizza Bob is correct.

Either a Snipe or a Whistler.

Point ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Dan