Screwball

I got three and a half... Piston 5.56mm (red dot), D/I .45 (red dot), D/I 5.56mm (1.5-6x, 18” in FDE), and then the lower sitting in PA with the Fostech Echo II trigger. Can’t wait to move and build that last one. Probably 20”, with rifle stock. At least have a .308 up my sleeve when I’m out, as well.

I have an Aimpoint 3x magnifier. To be perfectly honest, I use it more for getting a better zero than anything else (on all three of the Aimpoint red dots I have on my rifles). As High Exposure said, the red dot can do a lot from 0 to 200 yards by itself (judging 5.56mm; my .45 AR... not so much). Run a 50 yard zero, and your bullet impact will be within 2” or 3” high/low for that entire range. Knowing the trajectory is key. At $100... your guess is as good as ours. I’d lean slightly towards it not being worth it. A good source of info is Amazon reviews, if said magnifier is on there. There are certain brands that are predominantly marketed to airsoft. Recoil might do most of those in within short order. Spending $100 on something that doesn’t last isn’t as good as $250+ on something that does. There are affordable options out there, but best to do research into them prior to wasting money. Saw the end right after I posted... I’m not a fan of swapping optics on the same rifle. I rather have a rifle with a red dot, then one with a lower powered optic. Really, that is what I did already. Furthest I’d go, two uppers with different sight options... hell, did that too (my Spikes .22 upper).

Wasn’t the case prior to like the 90-Two... Beretta stuck with the 15s for A LONG TIME.

Probably meant that for the size of the gun, should have a higher capacity. Look at Glock... full size 9mm holds 17. It was a bigger argument with older guns, like the Beretta 92 and SIG P226.

Sending you a PM. [emoji6]

If the gun is built legally in PA, and brought back to NJ... and complies with NJ law (not an “assault weapon”)... no issue. At least with current legislation. That is sort of along the lines of me buying a C&R handgun in PA (legal, as I have an FFL-03), and bringing it back to NJ. No pistol permit is required, as the gun was acquired legally outside of NJ. Only issue would be if it was illegal in NJ, like if I got a Hi-Power, with 13 round magazines. The NJ law is that you cannot manufacture that lower within NJ. You can buy a stripped lower here and finish it at home without issue... so no problem putting the stuff on one of those. If you don’t finish the lower in NJ, you should be fine. Now, would your balls get busted not having a serial number? For the SIG conversion kits, no issue. The receiver is the registered part. You want to convert from 9mm to .40, it is still the same receiver. Those kits are more popular in NJ as one receiver can give you multiple calibers... on one permit.

I’ve been shooting my father’s USP Compact (.40 with LEM) in preparation for FLETC, as CBP issues the P2000. I absolutely hate it. It is different, and can be adapted to, but I’ve felt the same way about it since I first shot an H&K. When everything else you shoot is push in, pushing down isn’t instinctive. Damn, Germans. Don’t know if the VP9 is eligible for the CBP trials (three different sizes with interchangeability or modularity, red dot capable, and a few others), but I do know they allowed either the standard release or H&K style in the specifications. So it isn’t a growth from there. It is weird to see H&K do something like that, unless there is a major trial they were looking to enter. Or maybe they just saw a bump in sales from Walther going the same route with the PPQ.

And I didn’t take it or mean it as such... sorry if it came off like that. Used your post more of an example to explain that question (26) doesn’t matter about being committed/detained/whatever else. That is specifically covered in question 24. I agree with you, in regards to counseling. If someone is talking through a rough patch in life, it isn’t applicable to that question. But when there is a diagnosis (associated with mental/psychiatric conditions), and medication is prescribed, that question should be answered yes. Doesn’t matter if they chose to expand it to also cover hospitals and mental institutions (which doesn’t necessarily mean someone was committed), treated by a doctor for any of those conditions. It isn’t anything bad to be in that position. Like I said earlier, I think it is better to seek help when it is needed. But, if that is the case... there isn’t a need to come up with a stretched (and unrealistic) explanation of the question to put down no, possibly jamming yourself up, when you can answer yes and still get your FID.

You are an adult and can make your own decision... Do what you like, but remember what was stated about the release/application. Lying about something because you don’t want to check yes is a great way to go down the road of never being able to legally own a firearm because you have a felony on your record. That is way big of a risk when people have got their FID by being honest on that question (answering yes). https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/social-anxiety-disorder-more-than-just-shyness/508-social-anxiety-disorder_153750.pdf Read the second page. And again, I have no dog in this fight. But when someone states they have social anxiety, and is prescribed medication for it, I would say it is a mental condition. The person you see for it is a doctor, right? Ask them. Very simple, and doesn’t go into the firearms discussion. In regards to linking mental/psychiatric condition just to the hospital/mental institution in that question... I’m at a loss of words. Because if it isn’t applied to doctor or psychiatrist... EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO PICK YES! We all have been treated by a doctor at some point in our lives... I go to an endocrinologist quarterly for Type 1 diabetes. I wouldn’t check yes on that question. The question is specifically asking about mental/psychiatric conditions. Sorry, but it is what it is. Again, that isn’t a reason by itself to deny a FID... and there is nothing wrong that it is considered under that umbrella (mental condition). It doesn’t make you any less of a person, or someone that shouldn’t have the rights under the Second Amendment. It is just a question that lawmakers put on an application to make them feel better... but still something that needs to be answered truthfully (as with the rest of the application... would you put someone else’s name on it?). If you are still unsure on what to put, contact the NJSP and talk to the Firearms Unit. Can’t be clearer than that. As I mentioned earlier, I see a lot of discrepancies from the earlier thread, to the beginning of this thread, and to where you are at now. Listen, I am not trying to put you down or judge you, but you are correct... everyone here deals with some sort of stress. Within the past year, my ex broke up with me within two weeks of proposing, after I applied for two positions, planning to have a life with her at one of them. However, being prescribed medication for it, while nothing is wrong with that (many people have), isn’t the same thing as saying we all are exposed to stress. Not trying to make myself seem any better, because I’m not, but I didn’t take any medication for that breakup... I put my head down and kicked ass to get myself ready for FLETC, losing almost 40 pounds since April. Others have their own ways for dealing with stress. For your question about can anyone say they don’t have anxiety at one point... I can only say that I’m not prescribed medication for that. Went through multiple psychological tests for employment... and never was told I have any mental or psychiatric condition. That’s what the question asks... not if you ever dealt with stress. Question 26 might touch on your situation, but it is attempting to find people that either don’t deal with stress in a productive way, or are a danger to themselves/others. It stinks that you were included in it, but if you aren’t in that small group, you are good to go (multiple people have stated people with similar situations to you have checked yes and received their FID). Is your medication prescribed to you, and a common anxiety medication? People doing these investigations do them for a living. If your license can stop you from getting too much of certain over the counter medication... you don’t think people are going to see what medication has been prescribed, and by who? That is related to the release that accompanies the application. If you decide that is me scaring you... I’ve moved past caring. I’m stating that because this is likely going to be a thread that people in a similar position are going to read for years to come (remember, the NJSP told remixer that it is a COMMON question), and I don’t want them to make a decision based on whatever rationale you are using (still don’t understand it, as you’ve been explained the question, repercussions for lying about it, and that people in a similar boat have received their FID by answering yes to it). There is no reason to lie for that question... especially if doing so can deny you from owning a firearm for the rest of your life. If you are considering going that route, might want to go back to PK90’s original suggestion...

I actually had to look that up... you are a terrible human being! [emoji23] Still want the TAC-13, but want one of those, as well.

I never said that people who go to counseling need to check yes on that question... The question was quoted off the application in my first post in the thread (post 4). I selected it off the NJSP hosted document and copied/pasted. Nowhere does it talk about counseling. Specifically, it asks about mental or psychiatric conditions. The part before goes into how you are treated. The first three past tense verbs (attended, treated or observed) could be used in any meeting with any medical professional... however, you must consider the “for any mental or psychiatric condition.” Between the those two points, they list a few options. With how the sentence is setup, I see six variations... -doctor -psychiatrist -hospital as inpatient -hospital as outpatient -mental institution as inpatient -mental institution as outpatient While it seems confusing, just plug in those three verbs, with those six variations, and add the “for any mental or psychiatric condition.” If you answer yes to any of those 18 combinations, put yes on the application. If all no, put no. Sorry if anyone takes offense to that explanation (not saying anything about any person in this thread, just making sure it is clear), but that is a different question than 24, which is related to being confined/committed. If you answer yes to 24, does that mean you answer yes to 26? No idea, and isn’t the case for the OP. As remixer nicely contacted the NJSP regarding this, any questions beyond all this should likely be asked to the NJSP. They are good people over there. And as stated, it is a common question. For me, having done Federal and State background investigations (including a lengthy one for NJSP)... it is always recommended to give more than less. If you present it, you can always explain. If you don’t present it, and it is found during the investigation, you failed to be honest on the paperwork (not being sure might be a valid argument, but then they are going to ask why you didn’t ask for clarification; plus, they have the application with your signature on it in their possession). Signing a release for them to investigate your mental health records... I’d consider them having access to that information, so put it down.

Not to pry into it, but can you ask them about question 26 on the application? If they answered yes, and got the FID, then that is ultimately the answer. Might want to see if they can help explain the situation, if they feel comfortable.

Some people don’t have issue with that... so, you and me might be in the minority. [emoji6] Myself, I want to know where the gun goes directly after me. Two people past me... don’t care. If it was ever used in a crime, I can pull out some type of documentation and say it wasn’t me. Might sound like passing the buck, but if I’m going to get jammed up for one of my guns shooting someone... rather it be my fault than someone else’s. People always mentioned that you don’t have to keep CoEs. I do. Every gun I own or sold... exceptions being gifted long guns (Marlin 60 my father got me when I was younger... but I do think I have the actual receipt stapled in the manual). Any gun I sold, which I never sold a pistol within NJ, I have either a CoE or tracking info/copy of the FFL I sent it to. If it gets traced to me, the FFL will have it coming in, and going out to someone else. Might seem similar to how anti-gun people sold the current law, but I do it for myself, and myself alone. Had three polymer AR lowers that went back to the manufacturer because they were garbage... my three CoEs are all together, with the email exchange, confirmation that lowers were received/money refunded, and tracking info that showed they signed for it. I would think they destroyed them, but it isn’t like storing a few pages is that strenuous. If I get someone asking me about some Tennessee Arms lower that the serial number matches a transfer to me out of Ocean, NJ... they can have a nice talk with Tennessee Arms about it. Still not fond of this entire law, as similar documentation would be received with a pistol permit via the old way. Same with long guns, as CoEs were required. Going through an FFL just kicks in $15 to NJ for each transfer... not a Ponzi scheme, but pretty sly.

Ok... going to be my last post in this thread, because it is moving to a discussion that really isn’t what you originally asked for. But I do want to clear up some stuff. Whether or not the FID system is constitutional, it is the current law within the state of NJ. It sucks, but if you want to buy a firearm here, you need to comply with that. If it gets ruled as unconstitutional, then things will change. Until a case gets to that level where it can be decided on, it isn’t going anywhere. You likely aren’t going to see pro-gun change (within NJ) in the near future, with how elected officials are stacking up. Definitely not going to change in one election cycle. For the process being made to discourage you... welcome to what NJ gun owners have faced for years. We have to do that initial application/finger printing for our FID, and then an application for each set of pistol permits you get after that (including my FID, which I got at 18, I might have submitted six to eight applications over the years). Used to be able to fill as many pistol permits as quickly as you wanted, as long as they didn’t expire... then it changed to one pistol a month (limiting total number you can acquire within the time limit... 180 days max). If you go shooting with a pistol, cannot go out to eat with friends afterwards, as you must take the pistol straight home; same goes for long guns unless you have a FID. List goes on and on... and it really doesn’t get better as time passes. But plenty of people here went through it, myself included. In regards to felonies... lying on that application is a felony. No question about it. You sign right above where it states that for a reason. That isn’t a simple mistake, especially with your last few posts and then looking at the differences with the thread that PK90 mentioned (you can answer no to question 24, but you’ve stated as much that question 26 should be a yes). Lying on my e-QIP/background for CBP is also a felony... and it was made clear while I was doing it, as well as when I released it to the agency. I didn’t because I am not tossing my career/life away over it. There was also a part on the FFL-03 application that said similar, where lying on that form is illegal (any government form like that is going to likely have something similar). Nobody is using that to scare you... but if you are going to lie on that question, you should be aware of the repercussions and the likelihood that it will be uncovered by the mental health records release that you provide with the application. If you took that as me scaring you, I’ll apologize for that... as it was not my intention. That being said, personally... I really don’t care if you go for your FID or not. I’m out of NJ in April, unless another job comes up sooner. I would like to see more gun owners/FID holders, as it makes the gun community stronger. But you are not going to see me suggest anything illegal or tell you that you should answer no to a question that you should answer yes. Don’t think any member here will suggest that. All I recommended was to contact NJSP, and see what a yes for that question entails. Again, if you want to argue the constitutionality of it... you can, but that means you aren’t looking for assistance with your situation. I’m not going to sit here and argue it either... especially since I agree (which doesn’t change the law). Best of luck with whatever route you decide.

While I feel for you, the question on the application is not the same as a 4473... it doesn’t just ask about being committed or labeled “mentally defective.” For that, with what you stated, I would feel you answering no would be fine (didn’t meet any parts of that specific question). The application question specifically includes “treated by a doctor” for a “mental or psychiatric condition.” I’m not up on what social anxiety is... as it has been a few years since I took a psychology class... but I do believe it is included in that description. Whether or not it is common, you have to look at that question and see if it applies. From what you posted, I view it does. If you try to twist it and answer no... that could jam you up if it is found out, and as mentioned, it is a third degree crime. That is a felony, which is a question on the 4473, as well. It is illegal for a felon to possess a firearm... and that sticks with you for life (also have to put it on future job applications, which most employers likely won’t appreciate a charge regarding lying on a government form). Speaking with a firearms lawyer isn’t a bad idea, but asking the NJSP about it isn’t a bad thing. Don’t know if the Firearms Unit has an email... if you don’t feel comfortable calling about it, but just asking a question isn’t going to put you on a watch list. Just give a general description of the situation, and ask if choosing yes on that application question is an automatic denial. If not, how is it reviewed? I can’t see it never coming up on their end. Again, this is probably as much information as you are going to get from us regarding this, unless someone comes in and was in a similar boat. I do hope you get good news from either of those sources (NJSP or lawyer), and keep us posted on what is stated. People might see this, feeling worried about that question, and never attempt to apply for a FID. If it is positive or negative, at least it will give some insight into it.

What range do you want to shoot the rifle to? And just paper or looking for some sort of other use? Longer range... you can use .223/5.56mm. I have one AR setup for past the red-dot range, but if I’m shooting for precision, I prefer a heavier bullet than what .223/5.56mm offers. Closer in, I’m more willing to go lighter. That is why my scoped AR has a 1.5-6x scope, and my .308 Remington has a 4.5-14x scope. Nobody would rather be shot with either, but the same wind is going to move a 168 grain .308 less than a 75 grain .223. I am not a fan of jumping into 6.5mm straight out the gate, as prices do jump up... but it is a superior cartridge than both (and still short action, like .308). My next precision rifle will likely be 6.5mm Creedmoor. Learning wind, especially reading it, you’ll get a lot less frustrated with a .308 than a .223. Not that a .308 isn’t effected by wind... just not as much. That could result in seeing the bullet impact one edge of the paper, thus being able to correct/understand what happened, over completely missing and scratching your head on why. Again, less of an issue closer in. Depending on likely range/use, I would suggest either a .223 or .308. If wind is something you are going to face, especially if you want to go further out... I’d lean .308. If your long range can be done with a red-dot or even iron sights (even if you are choosing not to), .223 will be more economic.

I got out of Grand Jury... so prefer this over driving to Trenton each week. Remember, I’m not a plumber. I just help keep a plumbing company going. [emoji6]

On the court WiFi... might download sometime this morning. Jury duty. [emoji107]

I might download for that group, though...

I liked MeWe (the main NJ Guns one) for selling... but since I sold most of my stuff that I wanted to get rid of, I deleted the app. Most people on there are also on here. If something else must go while I’m in NJ, I’ll download it again. But thinking I’ll just leave everything until I move... and sell stuff at that time. Only thing I might sell is my Ruger .44 Carbine... but still not settled on it yet (don’t make them anymore, and I really like the tube magazine). Other than selling, I’m not too fond of the attitude on there anymore.

Well, it is a question on the 4473... but a little more specific. It specifically asks if you were labeled “mentally defective” or committed. But at least it has more “what if” scenarios to allow people more people to answer no to it. Like I said, I don’t know exactly what is asked. If they just ask if you are a danger to yourself/others or should you be allowed to possess firearms are two questions that your doctor would answer differently... if he even would. Maybe a call to the NJSP wouldn’t be bad. Explain his personal view, and how you are concerned that his view against firearms could result in a denial. It’s an honest question, and considering they specifically ask for a consent form for that subject... they might be able to answer it for you.

Well, they need to talk to your doctor... as he is treating you. If that’s what he said, maybe skip it. Again, don’t know what they ask them. But if he said he wouldn’t sign off because of that view, there’s your answer. So, if you wanted to go into law enforcement, he wouldn’t sign off because you’d have to carry a gun? Seems like a nice guy. Don’t say that to discourage you from seeing him, but that just shocks me that being in a position like that, he could possibly be the deciding factor on his patients’ rights.

Or both... the guy that owns the company that we lease our copiers from also runs a porn website. Paul’s DNA focus was paternity testing. Would joke that depending on the results, he would raise/lower the price to buy a gun.

That’s what Paul from NJ Arms did... Did DNA testing, and had a room for guns in the same suite. Started moving from one to the other, and a few years before he passed... he closed the DNA stuff and focused on guns.

It is more because of the stigma behind it. Me, personally... I don’t trust anyone less because of it (like you said, rather them get help than it progressing further). But for 10,000 people that just talk, you get that one person that shoots up a school... which is similar to generalizing that guns cause crime. But again, eligibility is hard to answer. I never heard of someone being denied, for a specific reason. I would think a good report from your doctor would be an ok for it to be approved. Only issue is that each time you go for another pistol permit or a change of address... you have to go through that again. I would take a copy of the application to him next time you see him and ask. I’m sure he likely had it come up at least once before. You’ll get a better answer than most of us can give here.