Can someone smarter than me, think @Pizza Bob @Old School @Smokin .50, tell me why indoor ranges still don't allow steel-cased ammo?

 

Because they can't make money off it and it's too much of a bother to sort it from brass.

13 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Because they can't make money off it and it's too much of a bother to sort it from brass.

Big thing / difference between pa and Nj indoor. Ro’s in nj are brass collectors. Pa, clean your own mess up.

The issue isn't the case, the issue is the core of the bullet.  They generally test for steel cores with a magnetic tester.  If the cases are steel, they can't get an accurate test.

If it was about making money or being lazy, they would also not allow aluminum cased ammo.  I've been to ranges that did not allow steel cased but had no problem with aluminum.  You can sort out steel cases with a magnet.

Just now, AlexTheSane said:

The issue isn't the case, the issue is the core of the bullet.  They generally test for steel cores with a magnetic tester.  If the cases are steel, they can't get an accurate test.

Ya, not buying that as an excuse.  The bullet construction is on the box.  If it's a bi-metal jacket,r has a steel core,  it will be indicated on the box.  It all boils down to them being lazy and greedy.  I have heard some ranges prohibit you from collecting your own brass.

3 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Ya, not buying that as an excuse.  The bullet construction is on the box.  If it's a bi-metal jacket,r has a steel core,  it will be indicated on the box.  It all boils down to them being lazy and greedy.  I have heard some ranges prohibit you from collecting your own brass.

Agree

1 minute ago, Scorpio64 said:

Ya, not buying that as an excuse.  The bullet construction is on the box.  If it's a bi-metal jacket,r has a steel core,  it will be indicated on the box.  It all boils down to them being lazy and greedy.  I have heard some ranges prohibit you from collecting your own brass.

Tula is notorious for having steel in their bullets with no indication on the packaging.  While I don't doubt that greed is a motivator, I think prohibiting brass collecting is also avoiding a safety issue.  You know that there will be those people who collect their brass who will reach past the shooting bench to try to get as much as they can.

I guess the true test of motivation is whether they say only brass allowed or only no steel cased allowed.

@AlexTheSane, aluminum cases are worth more than steel cases.  For reference, a 5 gallon bucket of brass casings is ABOUT 85 bucks.  That same bucket with aluminum cases is half, 40 bucks.  A bucket of steel cased ammo, 10 bucks.  

28 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

@AlexTheSane, aluminum cases are worth more than steel cases.  For reference, a 5 gallon bucket of brass casings is ABOUT 85 bucks.  That same bucket with aluminum cases is half, 40 bucks.  A bucket of steel cased ammo, 10 bucks.  

Yes, but sorting aluminum from brass would be significantly harder than sorting steel from brass.

I know at TTC they started allowing bi-metal rounds but they found out they would jam their auger and chew it up. Of course they banned bi-metal right after I bought my SKS. Hard to find non magnetic rounds in 7.62x39 and much more expensive.

28 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

I know at TTC they started allowing bi-metal rounds but they found out they would jam their auger and chew it up. Of course they banned bi-metal right after I bought my SKS. Hard to find non magnetic rounds in 7.62x39 and much more expensive.

I picked up Yugo M67 brass-cased ammo just for indoor ranges...  there were decent sales on them a while back but the downside is that they're corrosive.  Not a deal breaker though since a bit of warm water will clear the salts right up.

When GFH allowed wolf/GT, it was awesome.  

bi-metal hitting steel backers also creates huge sparks...  I'd think there is a fire hazard there too.  When Ant used to allow Golden tiger...  it used to look like fireworks behind the target

I think that indoor ranges ban steel-cased ammo because steel-cased ammo almost always has bi-metal jacketed biullets, Tula, Silver bear, Wolf, they all have bi-metal bullets.  I've only ever seen two brands that made steel-cased ammo with non-magnetic bullets: Golden Tiger and some Red Army Standard.

Can't speak for Red army standard, but all golden tiger I've bought over the years has been with a bi-metal jacket.

If you're into 5.45, hornady makes steel cased ammo with a lead-core & copper jacket, but more costly (obviously).  In 7.62x39, your best bet is surplus yugo M67

No metal cases, no questionable ammo, no sparks, no problems.  Easy for range to keep out.  Nobody wants a range fire with unburned powder around

1 hour ago, T Bill said:

No metal cases, no questionable ammo, no sparks, no problems.  Easy for range to keep out.  Nobody wants a range fire with unburned powder around

So, is all steel cased ammo steel core?

And define "questionable ammo".  

Just now, Ray Ray said:

So, is all steel cased ammo steel core?

No.  But it is a good excuse to sell some overpriced range ammo none the less.

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

So, is all steel cased ammo steel core?

And define "questionable ammo".  

No, but it's difficult to test if the bullet is magnetic if the case is also magnetic.

6 hours ago, AlexTheSane said:

Yes, but sorting aluminum from brass would be significantly harder than sorting steel from brass.

and sorting

Golden Tiger 7.62x39 FMJBT Steel case, copper jacket, solid lead core and noncorrosive.   If they won't let you shoot this, then there is no question it's about them selling ammo and making money off of spent brass.  20 cents per round 1000 rd case.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/golden-tiger/temporary-sale-1000-round-case-762x39-fmj-bt-golden-tiger-124-grain-russian-amm

It's a blanket rule cause they don't want to have to sort what brands are good and not. Some Comm bloc ammo has steel cores. Beats the back stop, rare scenario of spark ricochet, and most important like said above brass only is more $ for them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

"20 rounds per box, 50 boxes per case. Golden Tiger 7.62x39 124 grain FMJBT ammunition features a lacquered steel case and non-corrosive priming and a bimetal jacketed lead core bullet that is magnetic. Made in Russia by Vympel." - SGAMMO

 

They don't have straight copper jackets... they're all bi-metal and will stick nicely onto magnets.  Perfect for an outdoor range.

Okay, this one specifically indicates copper jacket (non-magnetic) bullet.  It's about .03/rd more than the GT.  Also, Red Army sells non-magnetic too but it seems to be out of stock everywhere.

The point being, there is reasonably priced 7.62x39 with non-magnetic bullets out there.  My bad on the GT, nothing in the adverts indicated bi-metal.

42 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Okay, this one specifically indicates copper jacket (non-magnetic) bullet.  It's about .03/rd more than the GT.  Also, Red Army sells non-magnetic too but it seems to be out of stock everywhere.

The point being, there is reasonably priced 7.62x39 with non-magnetic bullets out there.  My bad on the GT, nothing in the adverts indicated bi-metal.

Right, and look how hard you had to look for find these.  It's just simpler for a range to say no steel cased ammo over "no steel cased ammo except..." then have people arguing that their steel cased ammo isn't bi-metal

 

Just now, AlexTheSane said:

Right, and look how hard you had to look for find these.

32-20 ammo is hard to find too.  Just say'n.  It was only hard to find because I'm not familiar with 7.62x39.  If I had a rifle in that caliber, I'd know every website from coast to coast that carried it.  But, to be fair, I think copper jacket for this ammo is unusual.  Rifles are meant to be shot outside, at animals, berms and hillsides.

Using ammoseek, I can find steel cased copper jacket all over the place.  At .25/rd, it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than range ammo and it does not do any more damage to the backstop than the range ammo will. 

If a range has a problem with steel core or bi-metal jacket, fine, restrict the bullet.  But don't ban steel case with copper jacket solid lead core.  RSO's are supposed to be professionals.  They should be smart enough to discern if the bullet construction is gtg or not.  But basing it solely on the case is BS.

On 1/26/2018 at 10:47 AM, Scorpio64 said:

32-20 ammo is hard to find too.  Just say'n.  It was only hard to find because I'm not familiar with 7.62x39.  If I had a rifle in that caliber, I'd know every website from coast to coast that carried it.  But, to be fair, I think copper jacket for this ammo is unusual.  Rifles are meant to be shot outside, at animals, berms and hillsides.

Using ammoseek, I can find steel cased copper jacket all over the place.  At .25/rd, it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than range ammo and it does not do any more damage to the backstop than the range ammo will. 

If a range has a problem with steel core or bi-metal jacket, fine, restrict the bullet.  But don't ban steel case with copper jacket solid lead core.  RSO's are supposed to be professionals.  They should be smart enough to discern if the bullet construction is gtg or not.  But basing it solely on the case is BS.

How would an RSO know if your steel cased ammo had a lead or bimetal bullet?

3 hours ago, AlexTheSane said:

How would an RSO know if your steel cased ammo had a lead or bimetal bullet?

He uses a magnet, which is not accurate at all.

True,

     The magnet will attract to the steel case to some degree no matter where on the head he positions it. It is far too subjective a test for an RSO to perform accurately on a range! Best to have\show the box or can which indicates the round type!

I went to a small range in Georgia that did not allow steel cased ammo but allowed my aluminum cased.  The employee took my entire box and ran a device over it that tested for magnetism and let me through.

So, what ammo is a no go?  I have Tula and Wolf black box from Walmart.