jackandjill

I hope court would be wise and grant injunction. The reason these bozos make stupid, outright illegal and anti constitutional laws is because they can get away with this sh*t.

Glad someone asked the question. As new gun owner, I did wonder about this. I thought it was to keep it pointed slightly down instead of pointing at next guy :-), I guess was thinking too serious.

Not to drag this off topic, but you are one of the good guys who answered to the point on my other thread, so I will try not to pick on you. But yes, this is the first time I had luxury of meeting a FFL who not only gives lecture on morals, profit making but throws in laws, ATF and NJSP for good measure, all for stuff he should have gotten over long ago. And a $400 rifle thats stuck in the process. So yes, I am trying hard, but still in the process of getting over it. Do let me know if there is some unwritten forum rule about not complaining regarding FFLs or coming clean on profit made. Back on the topic - I made comment few weeks ago. Even with OGAM laws, pistols started to disappear from local shops magically or available but more expensive than usual.

If you have to sell your guns, you have to sell at the price you bought them for. </sarcasm> I have been accused of straw purchase (go figure) and being unethical, refusing existing transfer for making all of $36 by a FFL for the ONLY pistol I ever sold. Some people on this forum even thought I somehow took advantage of this FFL. Mind you, the guy who bought from me got the best deal, same price as the FFL had it been in stock at FFL, best price anywhere online and FFL got his fees. Still somehow I ended up made out to be the 'bad guy'. - Just venting, cannot get this stuff off my mind. First sh*tty experience of selling a gun locally, for reasonable price.

Across the private organizations, new mantra (actually been there for some time) is on how to do better, cheaper. Most of the solutions involve 'self service' or 'self help'. I am sure bean counters told Sheriff to do the same - better, cheaper. So , given the castle doctrine is already in place, dont see why Sheriff's call to getting proper training is bad. If anything, it should help avoid a series of 'self protection gone bad' scenarios. Heck, I would even advice local PD to open a training center and use the proceeds for PD staffing.

Thanks everyone for your opinion. If at all possible, I am going to take transfer of the rifle from this FFL. After explaining all of this to him, if he still refuses, well no big deal, in grand scheme of things. There was a time I thought bringing FFLs into FTF would be good idea, but with this treatment , it reinforces the fact that when you make an exclusive club, it will end up with someone claiming moral high ground for unjustified reasons. Whatever decision this FFL makes, I respect it, move on and take my business elsewhere in future.

I do understand Dealers do not have to offer transfer service, just like any private business that can refuse service any customer they choose. However, trying to show it somehow in illegal light is just not right, for what ? Because I am making a "whopping" profit of $16 for lack of my research skills ? So tomorrow some law passes and all FTF sales need to go through FFLs, then what ? FFLs are going to start asking how much the seller is selling it for, and when truthfully answered, they are going to refuse transfers because they think seller is making a profit ?

For anyone thinking that I somehow took advantage of FFL or the buyer, I ended up selling the previous one at lowest price out there. Cheaper than the FFL himself (which he never had in stock to begin with or nor could order one), cheaper than anywhere online. Had I wanted, I could have quietly bought it for me, then put on gunbroker or some place else for nice profit - which would have been illegal in my book (the transfer with intent of sell). So, no, I did not take advantage of FFL or the buyer in that case. And that should not be the case to somehow make this one about straw purchase.

I am trying to say that, I dont understand why the FFL would be pissed or it would suddenly make it like I was taking advantage of the dealer/FFL. Specially, when my first preference was to buy from the FFL, only went online route when he couldn't get it from anywhere and made small money for the hassle of traveling back and forth to FFL to help with the transfer. Why would a FFL make this about a straw purchase ? Is everyone selling their unwanted guns for cost and not making any profit or to cover any costs ?

I would understand if somehow I made a scheme to sell like a business. I understand the sentiment in general with price gauging. But for two items and a $40 made for the hassle ? I like to purchase a Glock 19, anyone would like to sell for the cost please ?

Why would it be at the 'dealer' expense ? If anything, I wanted to order the same item from him first and let him make whatever he makes. He didnt have them in stock nor could he order it from anywhere. And its not like I ordered a container of them and start selling like a business using FFL. For god's sake, two items, $40 profit - weeks of phone calls, travel back and forth to FFL to be there for the transfer. Its not a profit in my book. Its a hassle and spoiling the fun of gun ownership right in the beginning.

Some one here referred to 'profit' here. Last time (the only time) I had two pistols, I did same thing with same FFL. He had tons of questions around "original purchaser". The FFL did ask me what I am letting it go for. I told him honestly. Then he rolled his eyes and later made comment that I made profit more than his FFL fees. I DID NOT sell for double the price or anywhere near crazy mark up. My justification was that I have been calling, spending time with internet seller for weeks for the item and finally I ended up with something I didnt want anymore. So I made a small profit , definitely not worth the hassle. Is that it, is that the reason a FFL would refuse transfer ?

Ruger American Rifle .308 .

That question talks about a PRIOR arrangement. But Mr. Smith (a future purchaser) DID NOT give money to Mr. Jones (me) at the time of internet sale. Infact Mr. Jones(me) did NOT know any potential Mr. Smith at the time when he (I) paid for internet sale. Further, all paperwork is filled out by Mr. Smith (not me).

Thats exactly what I am trying to avoid. But trying to stick a law is getting me into more hassle than taking easy route.

Funny, the FFL KNOWS that I advertised the item on these forums for sale. He knows when I advertised it (which is I bought second one). He pointed it out to me. So he knows I didn't make any prior arrangement or trying to do this thing a buddy with intent of transfer back to me.

I guess my problem is reading too much into it and trying to stick to it (law) too much. Reading the law, I inferred that I could not take transfer with INTENT to sell that immediately afterwords. So trying to do the right, simple thing getting me in some hassle.

Correct, however, I DID NOT purchase this for SOMEONE ELSE. Neither did I intended to sell this at the time I paid the online seller. I purchased it, found a better deal, so ended up with two. And trying to get rid of one of them BEFORE I take possession of it.

One of the rifles is already in the shipping coming to this guy. How do people usually deal with FFL who refuses a transfer for a gun already delivered and all legal according to NJ laws ? And it seems I just lost the buyer who withdrew, because of this thread it seems.

Exactly, I was honest with him, and wanted the paper work to be filled out by the actual purchaser (not me), so everything is kosher. One of them is scheduled to deliver this week and he told me he is not going to transfer. I did write to him with whole story with hope that he feels comfortable. What course do I take if he refuses transfer ?

Thats exactly what I am trying to explain to him. But his argument is, ATF tells him to suspect a straw purchase anytime two guys shows up at a the transfer. The only reason I show up at the transfer is tell FFL that I am ok with the arrangement (because my name is on the shipping box) and take my money from the actual purchaser. Again, I am not trying to get into any gun business. I am busy with jobs as it is and its not worth making additional $20 for weeks of follow up and hassle.

As many can tell, I recently got into Guns and trying to build my collection. In the process, either I am ending up with guns I dont need or cant take (due to OGAM law). I recently ended up ordering two rifles (same model) online because I found second one cheaper and couldn't resist the difference. Instead of taking the transfer of both, I asked my FFL if he could do the transfer to someone else (from this njgunforums for sale section). FFL told me he thinks this falls into straw purchase and refusing to do transfer. He is a good guy and I know if something goes wrong, its his license at stake, so I am not going to argue with him. But trying to learn something about law. So if I 1) Ordered a gun online but did not take transfer from FFL yet 2) Ordered a second one (same model) online again because of better price, did not take transfer from FFL yet 3) Trying to sell the first one on here so whoever ends up giving cash will take transfer DIRECTLY from that FFL after proper paperwork 4) I take transfer of second gun from the FFL for my own purpose, with my own paperwork Is this a straw purchase in any fashion ? To be clear, I did do this one time before with a pistol, again because I liked one of the two models purchased better and didnt need second one, with same FFL. At the time, he had many question, which I truthfully and clearly answered. Thoughts ?

Thanks for the info. Will call them up.

Anyone know of dealer in Bergen County who accepts GSSF ? I can wait but driving to Lawmen Supply is a looooong drive.

Not to nit pick on anyone in specific, but this is exactly the type of mentality plaguing the generations. Someone trained to do something thinking that everyone should be able to do, or Some people thinking that they are more "pure" than others, so deserve better 2A rights or Someone who never had to face home invasion (Feinstein and gang) arguing how people should be able to protect themselves with bats and clubs Every time something happens on the other side of country, we have to make a Federal Law. on and on and on.... How about we say "thank you" to the guy who saved the kids life and move on. No wonder, our society is going to choke and drown in its own laws.