Just now, GRIZ said:

@Maksim I generally agree with your statement with one exception.  I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining.  If anything it's increasing.

I think gun games had a lot to do with this. There really weren't any until the middle 70s.  Then came along IPSC, bowling pins and metallic silhouette.  Guns weren't just for cops, hunters, and targetshooters any more.

The growth of number of FFLs and commercial ranges just overbear out this growth of shooting in NJ.  Someone has to be keeping them in business.

Thanks and you are right, I should have been more clear.

What I am talking about is particularly the last 2 to 3 years, and more nationally as it relates to CCW data I am seeing.

Of course, gun transactions have been dropping like a rock for the past two years as well with double digit declines.

22 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I generally agree with your statement with one exception.  I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining.  If anything it's increasing.

I was going to say that, but you beat me to it, and I'm glad you did because you articulated it perfectly.

58 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

@Maksim I generally agree with your statement with one exception.  I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining.  If anything it's increasing.

I think gun games had a lot to do with this. There really weren't any until the middle 70s.  Then came along IPSC, bowling pins and metallic silhouette.  Guns weren't just for cops, hunters, and targetshooters any more.

The growth of number of FFLs and commercial ranges just overbear out this growth of shooting in NJ.  Someone has to be keeping them in business.

^^^THIS!

To all, not just GRIZ:

And the biggest push in firearms ownership is women in the 25-55 yr old demographic!  I'm friends with women who run womens-only shooting groups.  Every time a new range opens their table is right next to ours (CNJFO) and they're establishing new chapters and/or increasing the interest level among women!  Women have the say as to whether or not the offspring get any trigger time, so the easiest way to get the next generation out to shoot is to teach women that shooting is both fun & empowering!  Not every gun owner is a 2A advocate.  My job is to edumacate them so they see the 2A side of things.  The first need to handle & OWN firearms before they're willing to donate time, talent or treasure to the 2nd Amendment cause.  For instance, @Mrs. Peel was either not interested or an outright ANTI previous to learning how to safely shoot.  Now she wants every gun she shoots!  The state needs more Peels!  

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

@Maksim I generally agree with your statement with one exception.  I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining.  If anything it's increasing.

I think gun games had a lot to do with this. There really weren't any until the middle 70s.  Then came along IPSC, bowling pins and metallic silhouette.  Guns weren't just for cops, hunters, and targetshooters any more.

The growth of number of FFLs and commercial ranges just overbear out this growth of shooting in NJ.  Someone has to be keeping them in business.

This is probably the best quote of the whole thread.  Add in video games to the list of "gamers" as well.  

8 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

This is probably the best quote of the whole thread.  Add in video games to the list of "gamers" as well.  

Thanks Ray.  That's one point I didn't make.  Most 20 somethings and 30 somethings grew up playing video games.  After playing "Medal of Honor", "Special Ops", and other military games.  That instilled an interest in trying the real thing (or as close to the real thing they could get).

Military games were not the only influence.  I remember taking my nieces to the Museum of Natural History when they were 10-11 years old (only 15 months between them).  I was a bit surprised when we were in the Hall of American Mammals and they related how they had "hunted" some of them in a Cabela's hunting game.

My own interest in guns started with TV and movies.  I learned the technical aspects from books. Toy guns were normal for kids then.  Unlike today the more they looked like "real" guns they better they were.  We didn't have "mass shootings" like there are there are today.

Guns started to be evil in the late 70s and early 80s.  That's when pharmaceuticals were brought on the market that "controlled" many behavior disorders.  A lot of them worked...if they were taken. Liberal politicians found instead of spending money on mental institutions they could spend it on other things.  What would have gotten you committed to an institution back in the 60s and 70s gets you a prescription and thrown back on the street.

14 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Most 20 somethings and 30 somethings grew up playing video games.  After playing "Medal of Honor", "Special Ops", and other military games.  That instilled an interest in trying the real thing (or as close to the real thing they could get).

That's also really scary... in Metal of Honor, you get extra lives, in real life, you only get one. Can they separate the two when putting a real gun in their hands?  I really wonder about that.

 

9 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

That's also really scary... in Metal of Honor, you get extra lives, in real life, you only get one. Can they separate the two when putting a real gun in their hands?  I really wonder about that.

 

Ramirez!  Do everything!

Band of Brothers got me interested in WWII era firearms. Unfortunately I need to move out of state before I can own a M1 Carbine .30 Cal. Instead I purchase some scary looking sporter rifles. 

1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

That's also really scary... in Metal of Honor, you get extra lives, in real life, you only get one. Can they separate the two when putting a real gun in their hands?  I really wonder about that.

 

That really doesn't bother me.  Almost all recognize the difference between real life and a game.  Soldiers in their teens and 20s are big fans of video games.  They don't seem to have a problem.

You guys need to think this through. The timing is no coincidence. We all know Murphy is the Grinch. He’s obviously subcontracted Elf on the Shelf to visit the home and narc our gun owners. 

 

9 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

You guys need to think this through. The timing is no coincidence. We all know Murphy is the Grinch. He’s obviously subcontracted Elf on the Shelf to visit the home and narc our gun owners. 

Not to mention Alexa, Google Home and Facebook Portal recording everything and sending it back to him. I won't even mention that recording and tracking device you carry in your pocket 24/7.

The walls have ears.

To comply or not with the new law ?

By now you already made a decision.

If I have had listen to all rules and regulation in the Socialist country I escaped from I would have spent the next 25 years under communists rule. The majority wanted to follow the law and went  to clap when the dictator came to visit.  Not me. I don't listen to stupid rules or laws. Vast majority of them make sense  but  some are idiotic. Such is the new gun /magazine law.

I would like to find out an article in the future that says "less than 1% of the gun owners complied"

I admire those in NY state that dint comply with the, then  new demands regarding their guns.

Sure it easy for me to bark: I live in a free state.

However , soon I'll visit family in NJ and bring my 14 round mag with hollow point bullets. 

It is legal  to  transport it such but for sure a cop would give me a headache and I will be forced to call useless Nappen who will gauge me. It wont happen. My only answer to a cop will be my name and DOB. "No sir there is nothing else we can talk about and you have no permission to check my car"

Somehow related to marijuana (which I don't smoke)

 The government spent millions to enforce it  but they would have to put too many souls in jail.

Even NJ thinks a change in law is needed

 

32 minutes ago, Peter Goldwing said:

I would like to find out an article in the future that says "less than 1% of the gun owners complied"

That would probably be accurate. That number could be close to the members on this forum aware of the law.

The other 99% in the state (including LEOs) don't even know the law exists, so they unknowingly, didn't comply.

 

A lot of this thread has turned into another fine example of gun-owners eating their own. Yea, I get that the daily e-mail's which "do sound scary", and the distasteful daily-ad for the 1.25$/mag/month, come across as self-serving. That said, it is someone foolish to display all this negativity against the only organization, and the lawyers they are using, which is fighting for our 2A rights in this state. 

3 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

A lot of this thread has turned into another fine example of gun-owners eating their own. Yea, I get that the daily e-mail's which "do sound scary", and the distasteful daily-ad for the 1.25$/mag/month, come across as self-serving. That said, it is someone foolish to display all this negativity against the only organization, and the lawyers they are using, which is fighting for our 2A rights in this state. 

The only organization?  Hardly.

NJ2AS and CNJFOA are just two that I feel do much more and have done much more in their much shorter existence.

And not against lawyers... but one fear monger in particular who is seemingly more self interested in self than actual gun rights.

After all, based on his own posts, he has been fighting for NJ gun rights for the past 30 years... as such... I am trying to find any recent wins...

9 hours ago, remixer said:

BTW.... who feels safer this morning?

Probably the people who still have 15 round mags.  And the really naughty people who have unneutered 30 round mags for their ARs feel super duper safe. 

2 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

Probably the people who still have 15 round mags.  And the really naughty people who have unneutered 30 round mags for their ARs feel super duper safe. 

You mean a plastic container, a metal spring and a small piece of plastic? How does that make you safer? =P

8 hours ago, Maksim said:

But here is the difference, It is poor choice. 

Are you saying NJ is going to go door to door rounding up Jews?  That is what his message meant to me.

To answer your questions however, listen to the audio that was posted here of the hearing.  They do discuss the issue fairly well.

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that gun owners are a small minority in NJ.  The percentage of gun owners who really care however is far less.

Gun rights in NJ are going to be one of only two ways...

1. The Supreme Court steps in and guarantees them, or

2. The underlying demographics and political views change in NJ.

In order to accomplish the second, we need more people to go out, pick up a gun and go shoot, and to realize that guns are not evil.

Until 30% to 50% of the population believes "guns are not evil," the "do anything to stop violence" crowd will keep on re-electing their congress people.

A LOT more people in NJ own or are interested in owning a gun than many realize.  There's a reason there has been a major proliferation of gUn stores and ranges in NJ in the past 3-5 years.

A big part of the problem is the major stigmata / negative view of talking about and discussing gun ownership in public in this area.  And a great part of that has to do with the very real fear of running in to problems with the GOV. 

8 hours ago, Maksim said:

Want to make a difference?  Bring a non-gun person to the range... 

Agree 110%. 

Want to make a bigger difference?  Help them apply for their FID and be one of their two requires personal references.

5 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

A LOT more people in NJ own or are interested in owning a gun than many realize.  There's a reason there has been a major proliferation of gUn stores and ranges in NJ in the past 3-5 years.

A big part of the problem is the major stigmata / negative view of talking about and discussing gun ownership in public in this area.  And a great part of that has to do with the very real fear of running in to problems with the GOV. 

My wife ‘s goal is for every lady in the office to own a gun.. it’s a lot of ladies.

I think she’s at +1/2 dozen shooting with her, and more are asking. Ownership not so much. The state makes it difficult by design.

 

@Combat Auto I’m seeing what your seeing. At some point the guy has had enough beating and you’re gonna regret if you kill him. Philosophically speaking 

 

11 minutes ago, Zeke said:

My wife ‘s goal is for every lady in the office to own a gun.. it’s a lot of ladies.

I think she’s at +1/2 dozen shooting with her, and more are asking. Ownership not so much. The state makes it difficult by design.

Your wife needs to be commended for the good work she is doing for 2A... 

8 hours ago, Maksim said:

The numbers I saw were around 1.2 million gun owners, so that is not households... I believe the annual state police report may have and that it can be based on the number of issued FIDs.

Now... having said that... at least 50% of those are people who have guns, but are not "gun people."  By this I mean people who either inhereted guns, or bought a gun for home defense and haven't actually shot it.

To them... 10 round mag limits seems just fine.

Take out hunters, and I would estimate the true number of people who are both interested in guns and actually shoot them is closer to 250,000 and likely declining.

 

I have to disagree with you that the number is declining.  SOMEBODY is going to all the new gun ranges and gun shops that have been opening.

A large part of the problem is many pro-gun people don't feel comfortable talking about guns for various reasons.  When I purchased my first firearm (3-4 years ago) my wife didnt' want me talking to ANYONE about it.  Shortly thereafter we were at a 40th bday party of some friends.  One person started talking about his recent skeet shooting outing and another started talking about how they wanted to purchase a firearm but didn't know how to go about it and had been given A LOT of bad / misinformation and one wife stated how she wanted to learn how to shoot.  I sat there and looked at my wife until she finally said, "Okay, tell them..."  Now I'm known as "the gun guy" and I happily and freely talk about it.  

I will agree that gun owners in this state are VERY apathetic.  And I somewhat get it.  We are overworked, overtaxed and if you have kids (especially if they are involvled in sports) you are running around A LOT.  NJ culture is very fast paced and in many instantances very "me, me, me"  So if it isn't fast and about / concern you then it doesn't matter all that much to many.  People in the gun communtiy, at least from what I can see, like to slow things down a little and have more a sense of community.  While we care about ourselves we also care about the rights our childrern and their children will have left.  And while there may only be a small percentage of people who actively participate in pushing back they are very dedicated.  And we need more of them.  And I've seen their numbers grow (slowly) since joining this forum.  Mrs. Peel is a perfect example.

7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

@Maksim I generally agree with your statement with one exception.  I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining.  If anything it's increasing.

I think gun games had a lot to do with this. There really weren't any until the middle 70s.  Then came along IPSC, bowling pins and metallic silhouette.  Guns weren't just for cops, hunters, and targetshooters any more.

The growth of number of FFLs and commercial ranges just bear out this growth of shooting in NJ.  Someone has to be keeping them in business.

And video games.  Hickock45 recently did a video about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN6-mLD7K5k

6 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

Women have the say as to whether or not the offspring get any trigger time, so the easiest way to get the next generation out to shoot is to teach women that shooting is both fun & empowering!  

I took my youngest out and it was DEFINETLY a "don't tell Mom" moment.  Until I accidently sent a pic of my daughter holding her target to my wife (I thought I had hit reply to a text for my brother-in-law).  Oooopsie!

12 hours ago, Maksim said:

 Interesting.  I know off topic... but...

Can you drive and have your phone in a hands free device or say on the dash and watch a movie while driving? er... have a movie playing while driving. 

39:3A-1. Television set with screen visible to driver of vehicle prohibited

It shall be unlawful to operate upon any public highway in this State a motor vehicle which is equipped with or in which is located a television set so placed that the viewing screen thereof is visible to the driver while operating such vehicle.

11 hours ago, capt14k said:

Facebook he controls the narrative. Here he does not. There may have been more dissent on his post but he could simply delete it. Nappen, Bach, and every FFL in leadership roles of 2A organizations need to go. What is good for them is bad for us.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Did you happen to see his post about not likeing people calling him out 

2 hours ago, Peter Goldwing said:

I admire those in NY state that dint comply with the, then  new demands regarding their guns.

Major difference is in NY 1) it's only a misdemeanor / slight penatly (I believe, would need to Google it) and 2) outside of the cities NY State has A LOT more in common with free America.

In New Germany you're looking at something like 18 months in jail and a $10k fine for EACH violation.

8 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

In New Germany you're looking at something like 18 months in jail and a $10k fine for EACH violation.

Those would be the statutory maximums. To get a sentence like that you would need a bad record. I've seen discretionary fines doled out maybe 10 times. Anyone who qualifies to own a firearm in this state has either no record or a super minor one. I don't see much of a likelihood for consecutive sentences per magazine either.

Oh yeah, not to get too off track, the FB posts are definetly some fear mongering and self promoting  IMHO.  And we aren't eating our own by disagreeing with him.  And there are plently of other organizations that do a LOT to help 2A in NJ that get very little in return and have done more with a lot less.

i would have had some respect for him if he metioned what type of "contact" one can expect from the police and why he thinks this.  For all we know it could be a generic form letter being sent out to every FID owner trying to make sure they are aware of the new laws.  I HIGHLY doubt anyone is goint to get no knock, battering ram raids at 2 A.M.  

Just now, JasonSeidman said:

Those would be the statutory maximums. To get a sentence like that you would need a bad record. I've seen discretionary fines doled out maybe 10 times. Anyone who qualifies to own a firearm in this state has either no record or a super minor one. I don't see much of a likelihood for consecutive sentences per magazine either.

Ssssh, don't let that out!  You're suppossed to keep that secret so people buy the newest edition of your book and attend your updated seminar!  LOL.

Thanks, that is good to know.  Thank you for sharing your personal knowledge and insight on this topic.  It's rather refreshing.  And it didnt' even cost me $19.95!