vorfix

Thats a total unknown for me. If the PD didn't give it to him yet I'm not sure how he would be bound by it, however he is also active in this thread talking about the ocean county court orders and the subsequent restrictions being added to them so I don't think he could argue he didn't even know it was likely his permit had those same restrictions. Especially since we know Ocean always was issuing a court order even when it didn't have restrictions listed, getting a court order with your permit in Ocean county should be expected so it missing should be obvious that something was not given to you by the PD.

We have also seen PD's in Ocean county forget to handout the court order when they have you pick up the permit. We are just trying to verify if you received a court order or not. If you didn't it is likely a mistake and the PD will probably reach out to have you get it. If you did receive an order, if it includes the restrictions or not on it is very relevant for if progress has been made, or not, on newly issued permits. If you did receive an order, but you do not want to post a copy here, please at least send a copy to ANJRPC's [email protected] email address which will go to the lawyers working to get these restrictions removed. They want copies of court orders issued after Sept 23rd. Since your permit was issued the Sept 27th, whatever you received would be very helpful to them.

Lucas, at least that is who I have seen mentioned.

I've now seen a picture posted of an amended permit order issued but the Ocean county judge, formerly issued pre Bruen as a work related permit, this order was issued on the Aug 12th and has this list we are worried about. I also have a picture of another order issued but the same judge that same day without any of it. My suspicion is the court orders for the amended permits are just reusing the previous order as a a template and the clerk just makes some date changes and other minor changes after the judge approves. But I've also seen orders issued after which have the list which wasn't related to work, so I'm still very confused what is going on.

Agreed, I'm concerned this is some new directive that has come down that the permit judges are forced to follow. I have no proof of that however. Trying to get details on any orders issued in Ocean after the order with restrictions we saw from 8/23. If we see orders without after, I'm less concerned. If we see all after have this new section, that is very worrying. FPC knows about it from the Monmouth case so my hope would be they go after it in their federal case.

That was Monmouth county and the whole situation is odd. He is an appeal to denial before justifiable need removed. His judge that gave these restrictions in the order is not the normal permit judge for Monmouth. There seems to be other drama going on in his case, so he may be an outlier. I've seen an Ocean county order posted from Aug 12th with no locations etc and then one posted from Aug 23rd with all the BS we see about locations. So I'm really interested to see proof of permits after the 23rd to see if this is now on all orders or somehow an outlier or mistake on people getting their work permits amended.

Sorry, I'm confused so just trying to be clear… Was the order signed before or after Aug 23rd? The "week before" part of your reply threw me off.

Do you know if your friend's order was signed after 8/23?

What date issued does your order have? I've seen another example from this judge issued August 12th with none of this present. I'm curious if this started after a specific date or if like others have said might be an employment permit if yours has none of this but was issued after this one.

We don't need guidance, the law says how it works in 2C:39-5(b), with a permit to carry your possession of a handgun in NJ is legal. It says permit to carry, but it really functions as a permit to possess a handgun legally in general. Caveat being if the judge says you can only carry handguns listed on permit, then only those would work this way. The whole reason we needed to use the transport restrictions and exempted places under 2C:39-6 to possess or transport a handgun in NJ was because we lacked a permit to carry so our possession was illegal under 2C:39-5(b) unless we could prove an exemption. Once you have a PTC issued (and that is valid for the handgun you are possessing if restricted by judge) no more exemptions or transport rules for that handgun. Same thing applies with FID in relation to rifles and shotguns, but we could actually obtain one of those prior to a few months ago.

It is fairly transparent why NYS released their training requirements all of a sudden. During the arguments for a case against NY's new Bruen response laws it was noted that NY as of Sept 1 would have zero guidance on training and that that training would only be released in April of 2022, so months of effectively no one being able to meet the training requirement because it wouldn't exist. After that statement was made to the court, the next day magically NY releases this. 16+ hours to only shoot 5 rounds from 4 yards where only 4 need to hit paper… This seems like an attempt to save that training requirement from an injunction. This was posted by the lawyer who argued in court against the new NY laws:

Fingerprints are live-scanned now and saved in electronic files(I've dealt with biometrics for work in the past). Those files absolutely can be stored and re-submitted for checks by NJ, and that may be what happens with FID/PP criminal history checks using your SBI #. However since the law for PTC says they must be taken each time, that is just what we have to do even if they could just be resubmitted from stored files.

PTC law says the PD/NJSP must cause you to be fingerprinted for every application. So even if they did store them, the law says you must get them done again. Stupid, yes I agree. 2C:58-4(c) ... The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. ...

Asking your PD is the best way to make sure you enter the right code on your application. However, that is not the list you need from everything I can find, you need the list of municipal court codes. Both Toms River (1507) which I personally verified with PD and Manchester from the last post are correct in this list.

NJ Supreme court ruled unanimously in a case involving this specific directive stating the following: "The Directive was issued pursuant to this Court’s administrative rulemaking authority, see N.J. Const. art. VI § 2, ¶ 3, and is therefore controlling on this issue." https://www.ammoland.com/2020/01/nj-supreme-court-unanimously-rules-in-favor-of-gun-rights-wait-what/