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marlintag

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Posts posted by marlintag

  1. Posted

    I found the following information on Reddit regarding Middlesex County. if this information is true, this is good news for us in Middlesex.

     

    "This is the latest update from Michael Roberts, a practicing, licensed, criminal law attorney, who is very active in the NJ firearms community.

    Screen shot of post attached, along with text for those worried about clicking links. https://gyazo.com/595a979de7274b8a351bffd528983b29

    Michael Roberts

    A couple of updates worth noting. All applications require notarization. A NJSP memo went out recently to PD to confirm this. 
    But beyond a notary signature they are being told to look for a notary stamp. What if my lawyer who holds the power of a notary and 
    signs instead, you ask? No good. Have to see the Stamp says one town in Ocean County. Middlesex County is processing Carry Permits. 
    They are backlogged by about 70. Judge Rea who had been handling gun permitting issues in the County for decades is giving it up. 
    He is passing the torch to Judges Corson and Jimenez. This will cause an initial further delay then more timely processing. One hopes. 
    The AOC is working on a system to remove the Judges entirely from the process. Finally, the Middlesex County Prosecutors Office 
    is not directly involved but is available should a town have a concern. In which case, they then become involved."
     

  6. Posted

    1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

    First - Please define what someone who is a “good shot” is. I bet my definition is a lot different than yours. What metric are you using to determine if a cop is a good shot or a lousy shot? 

    Second - What data are you using to formulate this opinion that cops are all lousy shots? What data are you parsing that shows “cops can not shoot minute of man at 7yards”?

    Third - In your opinion, what test does adequately test a shooters proficiency? What should a cop (or anyone) be capable of with a firearm to satisfy your criticism? What’s your suggestion?

    The idea that all cops can’t shoot is frankly ridiculous. 

    All NJ Police Officers are required by law to do the following regarding the carrying of firearms:

    • Train to realistic standards. ie: shoot on the move, use cover, shoot at moving targets, shoot in low light, participate in shoot/no-shoot or Force on Force situations

    • Pass a qualification consisting of a Day Time (full lighting conditions)and Low-light course of fire as prescribed by the NJ AG via the NJDCJ. They must pass this course of fire 2x a year with a minimum score of 80%. This qual course consists of 90-100 rounds (depending on if the agency uses HQC1 or HQC2) on an FBI Q target at ranges from 1 yard, out to 25 yards.

    • Police have to qualify on any weapon they plan on carrying on and off duty. There are separate day time and low-light qualification courses for other classes of firearms as well - such as shotguns, sub-guns, carbines, PDWs, and scoped rifles. Any agency can put further restriction in place (higher minimum passing score, restriction on gun type or caliber, etc…) or require more training if they wish.

    At the end of the qualification, if you don’t pass the qual, you are relieved of your firearm, placed in administrative status, given a time to train/practice, than an opportunity to qualify again. A failure then means termination. If you can’t shoot an 80% on the course, you can’t stay.

    Based on my observations at public ranges and teaching both civilians and cops to shoot For the last 18 years, I’ll bet that the average NJ cop can outshoot the average NJ gun owner on a HQC and HNQC test. In fact, I’ll bet that 75% of gun owners could not pass the entire police qualification course - the one that every working cop has to pass twice a year in addition to any training they participate in. I’ll bet another 10% of NJ gun owners will score in the 80% range, another 10% in the 90% range, and another 5% could clean the course and I bet the final 5% consists of shooters that can outshoot most cops by a fair margin by every measurable standard.

    The notion that “The cops who only shoot once or twice a year to pass that qualification are terrible shots.” is unsubstantiated unqualified nonsense. If they have to pass a qual 2x a year that the majority of non-cop shooters could not pass, how terrible are they. Just because they don’t know what color the boathouse is at Hereford, does not mean they don’t have the skills to accomplish their jobs.

    No, not all cops are shooters. Not all Cops are even gun people. But they all meet a minimum standard of 80% 2x a year.

    Cops have to wear so many hats and be mandatorily trained on so many topics now-a-days that there isn’t enough time or money to make them all into DeltaRangerSEALsnipers or steely eyed killers.

    On the other hand - some cops shoot at the GM level in competition circuits. Some were/are members of SOF or SMU organizations. Some are attached to LE Agencies/Units/teams that require a higher standard than 80% 2x a year. Some shoot as a hobby and enjoy training with firearms, often spending thousands of dollars chasing high-end instruction form some of the best instructors on the planet. Some are in agencies that promote martial abilities, but some are not. It’s not as cut and dry as “all cops suck at shooting”.

    Part of what @GRIZ was talking about when he said “Shooting isn’t fighting” (outside of the mindset and tactics portion that makes up 90% of any gunfight) is an important distinction. Shooting a qual course and getting 100% does not guarantee you are a gunfighter, or will win a gunfight, or even hit your target. 

    No one knows what will happen in the transition between shooting paper with your colleagues and friends under impossibly blue skies filled with cotton ball clouds, next to rivers of chocolate and trees that give beer, and when you are alone and fighting for your life with a very real possibility that you will die. This is not Cop specific and is a universal truth across the board including military, cops, competition shooters, bad guys, and armed citizens.

    Until you see the proverbial elephant, you don’t know how you will react to that level of personal danger.

    There is no test, no qual, no training that can predict that.

    So many blatantly false, exaggerated, and inaccurate statements here...one could write an entire book in response...

    2 hours ago, Variant said:

    But it doesn’t adequately test someone’s proficiency, that’s the entire point. The cops who only shoot once or twice a year to pass that qualification are terrible shots. But apparently I’ve been told that it’s OK for someone not to be able to shoot Minute-of-Man at 7 yards because he has other skills…

    And I agree with you, a range time requirement is silly. Why would you want people to practice and train more with a deadly weapon that they are allowed to use at a much higher level and with significantly more authority than the civilians they put in danger. 

    I never imagined I would ever read something like I’m reading here. Police should be the best trained and most experienced at shooting a handgun in the population. I just can’t fathom citizens defending police shooting once or twice a year instead of being heavily trained and practiced. 

    This is the clown world we live in. Cue the video of the LEO telling the classroom how he’s the only one professional enough to carry a Glock 40. 

    Don't bother arguing....It won't matter how much sense you make.

    • FacePalm 1

  7. Posted

    1 minute ago, Variant said:

    I don’t know what it is, but either way it doesn’t matter. They’re going to do whatever they want, your only recourse is to pay thousands of dollars, possibly tens of thousands, to fight them in court over the next year or two. 

    As horrible as that sounds, it may come to that.

    5 minutes ago, YankeeSC said:

    Am I missing something?  I thought the 30 days for the court was policy and not law.

    They created the policies that they enforce, they should have to follow the very same policy. 

    • Agree 1

  8. Posted

    8 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

    I only found out that they took more than 30 days when I called them on 9/12 and that they had my app since 8/10. NJSP told me it would take a while so I waited.

    I’m not sure what kind of action I need to take now. I’ve asked strikeforce for help because I am a member of ANJRPC and they offer this to members and to the gun owning public. They have an attorney that takes action. I’m waiting on them to see if they can do anything. Other than that I don’t think I can do anything else but wait. 
     

    If you have better ideas let me know.

    Assuming that attorney with anjrpc is taking action on your behalf then I would wait for that attorney to provide you with an update. If not, then I would consult with a law firm(even nappen etc.) to give you a course of action moving forward. 

  9. Posted

    10 minutes ago, nooch450 said:

    While I share the same frustration....

    What do you expect RadioGunner to do? I don't think they know the exact date when the court received the application, it's been 3 weeks since the money order has been cashed, we're not even 100% sure if the court itself is the place cashing the money order.

    RadioGunner has already contacted Strike Force...

    Then he should have called the court! I called the court 3 times, and I got the info I needed. I know exactly when my application was received, I know who cashes the money orders and I know the date my money order was cashed. Whining to Strike Force may not be the most effective course of action. 

    • Disagree 3

  10. Posted

    4 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

    While that is probably good news, Sussex cashed my money order three weeks ago. They had my app since early August. They told me they are holding apps awaiting guidance. One step closer but not quite there yet. 

    Agreed, except in your case the court in your area has exceeded the 30 day mark and action should have been taken on your part. I do want to mention Middlesex is also holding apps, but I'm hoping they will start issuing permits before they exceed the apps that are nearly 30 days in.

    • Like 1

  11. Posted

    1 hour ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

    My thoughts on the "delay" in Middlesex County

    1) As far as anyone knows -- Other than money orders being cashed there is no action yet on any post-Bruen carry permit out of Middlesex County;

    2) The 30 day deadline for at least some police department approved applications received at Middlesex County Court is fast approaching -- But as far as we have heard, the 30 day deadline has not passed for any particular application;

    3) The Middlesex Judge responsible for permits is well informed of all the applicable statutes, regulations, Directives and Court Decisions impacting the 30 deadline for approving, denying or holding a hearing on a police department approved carry permit application;

    4) My flat out guess (and your guess is a s good as mine) is that the Middlesex Judge is waiting until the 30 day deadline arrives for the first PD approved application received by the Court to see if there is any: Legislative Action, advice from the State Police, or directive from the New Jersey Supreme Court. 

    5) Absent any unforeseen circumstance, I expect a flood of approved applications coming out of the Middlesex Superior Court in the next 2 weeks.

     

     

    1) Correct, I spoke to the court on the 6th and was told at that time that no one has received a carry permit in our county.

    2) Yes, that we know of.

    3) That has not been verified for sure, there is no guarantee that we won't have to take legal action to move things forward. There is also differing statements on who the judge will be. 

    4) I hope your right, my application has not exceeded 30 days.

    5) It would have to as I expect that there are hundreds if not thousands that will be nearing or exceeding the 30-day mark at this point. Once again, I hope you are correct.

  13. Posted

    12 minutes ago, Deff said:

    Update.. middlesex county. 
    8/15 submitted full package to local pd  

    9/1 got a call from local pd saying paperwork was mailed to courts. 

    9/13 got a call(voice mail) from local pd that mine and one other application were sent back to them because the notary seal or date or something wasn’t visible or something. Bit of a garbled voicemail.  Told to pick it up and reprocess. Can’t till Friday. So pissed off. 

    :mad: I feel for you, I really do.  Middlesex County... Did anyone else notify Dan or the Strikeforce yet regarding Middlesex?

    • Sad 1

  15. Posted · Edited by marlintag
    spelling error

    2 hours ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

    Your PD approved about 23 days after references received and well with 60 days of the initial application. PD did what they were supposed to do. 

    You are in your 7th day of 30 at Middlesex Superior Court. 

    I was just providing an update to the forum, I know the breakdown of my timeline...How many days has your application been at the court?

  17. Posted

    1 hour ago, RichP said:

    All while praying that you don't have a failure to feed, have enough space to manipulate the slide without short stroking, and...having 1 less round available to you.

     

    1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

    Nobody says that.

    Also, nobody says that drawing, finding something solid enough to rack the gun on, racking the gun, then presenting the gun is as efficient as drawing the gun and then immediately presenting the gun.

    Also, his ability to reload is meaningless with respect to his ability to get the gun into the fight initially. It might only be relevant if he was starting with no mag in the gun either, but nobody is that afraid of an ND, I'm sure. 

    I think both of you are losing sight of the purpose of my initial response, which was to illustrate that this "style" or "technique" is not garbage. Everything from appendix carry to SOB carry has positives and negatives along with condition 3 carry. We can appreciate other "styles" or "techniques" without disregarding them as garbage and realize there may be times when condition 3 is a safer alternative. 

  19. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

    Not a very good technique if your support hand is unavailable for some reason: Managing a child, grappling with your assailant, injured, etc.

    who's says he can't rack the slide off his belt, holster, some hard surface? he's simply illustrating the basic technique which he has mastered and his reloads would put many to shame.

    • FacePalm 1

  21. Posted

    1 minute ago, nooch450 said:

    As far as I know the automatic approval of 60 days only applies to the police station or state police barracks. I don't think there is an automatic approval in the court system. There is a 30 day court procedural time frame. But without consequences or automatic approval what good is it?

    That's the million dollar question. The PD has 60 days and the court has 30 per directive 6-19. What happens after the 30 days has passed? We cannot carry until the physical card is in our hands.

    23 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

    I signed up for Law Shield and Anjrpc today just for this reason. I was going to anyway, but seeing as though there seem to be bizarre stories coming out, I'd rather have someone to call in the even that my application is affected. 

    I will likely be doing the same around the 30 day mark. I was going to do law shield the same day i get my permit. 

  23. Posted

    4 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

    Not ignorant at all. Been around a while and tried a lot of techniques for carrying a handgun. Carrying a handgun with an empty chamber when you don’t have to is garbage. It does absolutely nothing to your ability to safely carry a gun and actually makes protecting yourself with a firearm more dangerous.

    You will not find a reputable instructor in this country that advocates for this method of carry. Plus, if you ever speak with an Israeli instructor that is honest, they will agree that their method is inferior to carrying with a round chambered. 

    You "been around a while" and "tried different techniques" so, you know it all right? I have also tried different techniques and like I said earlier there may be times where condition 3 is warranted like around small children or in certain locales. Keep in mind, that in other countries they have to do condition 3. I also don't see how its "more dangerous" when the operator in the video can clearly handle himself and though I did not place him against a timer, he appears to be lock step with many LEO's i have seen at the range who are practicing their draws. 

    You will not find a reputable instructor in this country that advocates for this method of carry. Plus, if you ever speak with an Israeli instructor that is honest, they will agree that their method is inferior to carrying with a round chambered. 

    Ok, enter Cherev Gidon

    Cherev Gidon - Israeli Tactical Training Academy - HOME

    He trains people in the Israeli style of pistol combat including the draw. Now, i will agree with you that condition 3 carry is not popular here and that many instructors will not teach it, but there are places in the US who specifically cater to this type of training. Open up your mind a little.

    • FacePalm 1

  24. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

    if true, this reminds me of the bad old days in my town when it took 6 months to get the Local Police Chief to sign a permit to purchase a handgun. 

    Frankly, I have no idea what to do if a county judge decides to just sit and do nothing after receipt of a police department approved application.

    In other situations a person can go to the next higher level and bring an action in Mandamus to force the judge’s hand.  Any such action should be taken with great care and planning and with the advice of an attorney experienced in such matters.

     

    That was my point in my previous posts regarding this very issue. The courts can sit on PD approved applications for months, years who knows! The whole "car carry" restriction based on what I know is more isolated to a few instances whereas in our case it's a widespread issue. Please notify strikeforce if you haven't already done so.

  25. Posted

    16 hours ago, High Exposure said:

    Not true.

    It may not be a common occurrence, but I know for a fact that the engaged safety on a S&W 4013 saved the life of a co-worker when someone took his gun, put it to his chest, pulled the trigger, and got a dead trigger instead of a bang.

    Not chambering a round is the stupidest thing you can do when carrying a gun. Engaging a manual safety, if the pistol if so equipped, is appropriate. Carrying an unloaded gun is borderline suicidal. You can’t compare that Israeli garbage technique to using a manual safety appropriately.

    The manipulation of most pistol safeties adds zero time to a draw. I also guarantee I can draw and fire my 1911 (scoring an a zone hit) as fast if not faster than you can any striker fired gun.

    Tell some of these Tier 1 guys still carrying 1911s or these GM Competition shooters with their 1911 and 2011 pattern guns, all with manual safeties, that they are slow. They will burn you down on a shot timer.

    Ultimately, I don’t know if any of this really matters in the grand scheme of things, as my personal CCW choices reflect, but they are choices to be made in the real world and should be considered when choosing a gun you are comfortable betting your life on AND when deciding what skills and TTPs you are going to train.

     

    "Israeli garbage technique" that's somewhat ignorant.

    Granted, I am not an advocate for this style of carry, but it is a viable option in certain locales and possibly around small children. FYI, when i carried out of state, it was always condition 1 or 2. I would not call it garbage though.

     

     

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