Grima Squeakersen
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Posts posted by Grima Squeakersen
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3 hours ago, xXxplosive said:Shooters Sporting Center
rspoSndteoth7imi9239lu9mga2llt86a537lgua511a81g5fmt27f7504hu ·
We want to start this post by saying a huge THANK YOU to all our loyal customers, employees, friends and family for making the last 10 years such an unbelievable success. It has been our pleasure to serve, work with and meet each and every one of you.
For those of you that have not heard, the property where Shooter's is located is being sold to Ocean County. With Ocean County's plan to turn the property into a Regional Training Center for First Responders. In the future, Ocean County will be looking at the possibility of opening the ranges to the public.Yeah, I saw that. Sad development imo. I'm going up there to requalify Tuesday evening, and I'll be bidding the place good-bye at the same time. I don't own a huge firearms collection, but I do own a few, and evey one of them was purchased from or through (FFT) Shooters. I might visit the new/old store at some future date, but that isn't certain.
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On 11/17/2023 at 7:05 PM, Mr.Stu said:I'm pretty sure that the memo issued by the NJ AG and published on the NJSP web site trumps whatever your Chief of police told you. The AG is his boss, after all.
I'd be interested to see the official org chart that shows a local Chief of Police reporting to the Attorney General of NJ. The mayor and council of that jurisdiction might have some oddball idea that he reports to them.
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Yes, I received that on FB as well. Sad development. They ran one of the better ranges in South Jersey, imo. And while they seem to be striving for continuity in the firearms business by selling it to their store manager Brielle, only time will tell if she, in her new role as owner, is completely up to the task of maintaining the high level that we (I, at least) have come to expect from Shooters over the years. NJ won't be making things any easier as time goes on. At best, to me the range closing represents a big loss for South Jersey gun owners. I wish Brielle the very best in her endeavor.
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I received some sad news in a post on my Facebook account a little while ago from Shooters in Little Egg Harbor Twp. The current owners are selling the firearms and supplies retail business, which the new owner plans to move back to the original Tip's Hardware location. The land the range occupies is being sold to Ocean County to build an emergency responder training center. The range will not relocate, it is closing, permanently, after December 31. I see this as a formidable loss for South Jersey gun owners. I don't know how much of this decision is attributable to the rabid anti-gun stance of NJ state government, but I'm certain that didn't mitigate toward remaining open.
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On 10/29/2023 at 10:15 AM, Bellasdaddy said:I hear you, I understand you; no one cares.
"No complacent herd animals care"
FIFY
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On 10/28/2023 at 6:46 AM, Bellasdaddy said:Yes funny -5 years ago same people complaining about no concealed carry are now complaining about the requirements for concealed carry.
I wasn't here five years ago. But for anyone here who does match your description, continuing to complain about blatant violations of 2nd Amendment rights is entirely legitimate. Apparently you are content with the idea that NJ should be allowed to constantly modify the requirements for your permit so that its validity is in ongoing jeopardy, and to nibble away at the venues and situations where you can actually exercise it until it becmes meaningless. I am not. I hope it will give you great satisfaction to frame it and dispIay it as a wall decoration.
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On 10/25/2023 at 1:24 PM, 124gr9mm said:Unfortunately things have changed since then.
In order to be in compliance with the law you'll need to requalify and submit the latest form SP182 to your local PD.
Since you did your initial qualification with Shooters they'll do the the re-qual for free.
I just sent an email to Tom Gormley of Shooters requesting an update. Old Glock Guy's cite of the date 7/21 has me even more confused. I qualified early in August. My qualification did include use of force, but not holster draw. What (if anything) is magic about 7/21?
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On 10/18/2023 at 9:51 PM, JohnnyB said:I won't complain about the card....I'm just happy I have a CCW card in NJ! I never thought I would live to see it!
Me either. However, imo we need to make damned sure we don't lull ourselves into being so complacent with the current state of affairs that we stop fighting for full compliance with the literal meaning of the 2nd A.
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On 7/23/2023 at 12:01 PM, JackDaWack said:The only thing I can find that says you need to requilfiy is Evan Nappan... of course.
If it ends up being true, Everyone who has a permit should go down to their PD and file a criminal complaint for fraud against the NJ AG(cost you nothing to do it). We paid money for a 2 year permit, and they were issued by them. Anything less than 2 years constitutes fraud by the state since these permits cost money.
Does that also hold for NJSP for those of us with no local PD? I'd find it very amusing to go to Woodbine to file a criminal complaint against Platkin. I'm no doubt already on a half-dozen quasi-official scheist lists because of the letters I wrote when I was stonewalled on my initial PtC application, so I wouldn't give a flying fornication about landing on a couple more...
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On 10/16/2023 at 8:32 AM, 1LtCAP said:which should be about 3 to 4 months most likely.
And what are our advocacy organizations doing to challenge or counteract this BS? Rhetorical question, no need to respond...
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On 10/15/2023 at 8:30 PM, ALAN553 said:I believe that if your qualifications were the same as the “new/present” requirements you do not have to….but…..you probably have to take the “Use of Force” one hour live class. But…who is monitoring this? Has whoever signed your card calling you to inform you of the change? How would someone who has no computer or sign onto this site know what’s going on until renewal time…which is how most licensing procedures work like Drivers license, medical license, club memberships. But than again this is the state that essentially confiscated 15 round magazines without any compensation….didn’t even offer to reimburse the sales tax we paid to the state!
As I noted earlier in this thread, I had proactively contacted Shooters by email in mid-September asking about the new NJ requirements, and received assurance that my previous qualification would remain valid for the duration of my permit. I have received no follow-up message informing me of any change to that answer. I think that more than sufficiently answers any questions about pro-active notification. I'm not specifically picking on Shooters, either. A couple of weeks after I contacted Shooters, I received a similar (but unsolicited) email assurance from Range 129. I did not qualify there, but I'm on their list because I occasionally shoot there. I have received no follow-up from Range 129, either. Frankly, while I understand what a difficult and labor-intensive process this must be for those ranges, I would think that they would very much want to follow-up with corrections to assurances that turn out to be misguided (even if solely becouse of the stupidity and caprociousness of NJ state government) in the interests of limiting their own liability.
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On 10/4/2023 at 7:45 AM, 124gr9mm said:For what it's worth, my unrestricted Concealed Carry Permit is now 'complete'.
- Applied for initial permit July 2022
- Permit received early january with court order attached (Morris County) listing guns I was limited to
- July 2023 I attempted to add guns to permit by contacting court, but they refused and referred me to local PD. Local PD advised that I would need to apply for new permit or wait until I renew.
- Early September 2023 I submitted a new application and did a re-qual
- Late September did re-qual (Shooters) to get the latest form 182 and handed in to PD
- Early October unrestricted permit received (and printed/laminated)I didn't keep track of time/money sunk, but I tried to shop around as best as possible for pricing on quals, fingerprints, etc, so I didn't spend as much as some folks, but still more than I wanted.
Hopefully when I renew in two years the $200 fee will be GREATLY reduced as well as some of the administrative nonsense.
Dream on. You live in the aNJus of the US...
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On 9/11/2023 at 10:10 PM, 1LtCAP said:i thought that was "unless the course you took was substantially similar"?
I have a recent email from the range where I qualified (Shooters) stipulating on behalf of my instructor, Dave Cope, and themselves, that my qualification complies with the current requirements and will remain vaild through the expiration of my permit in 2024. Since I also have USLS coverage, I will continue to carry without losing any sleep over this issue (or non-issue, if you prefer).
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2 hours ago, 10X said:I've added this to the list at the top of this thread, noting that 'no weapons' is a line buried in an already-small sign.
Looks like South Jersey is living up to its rep as the most conservative part of an admittedly very liberal state. Other than the casinos, I see nothing on the list in Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland, Ocean, or Salem (the latter sort of surprises me).
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On 9/14/2023 at 5:19 PM, 45Doll said:Given some of the skepticism I read, I decided to contact Zanotti Armor and confirm a few things. So I emailed them last night.
This morning at 9 my phone rang. It was Travis at Zanotti. I won't try to recreate the conversation. Suffice to say that my confidence in their business and their safes is confirmed.
Here are the major points we covered.
- Electronic locks are really the crux of the Liberty issue, because of the existence of 'back door' combinations that can be revealed by a manufacturer or vendor. (This can be true for any safe with an electronic lock.) Tumbler locks have one and only one combination. And once purchased there's nothing stopping the owners from changing the combination, either doing it themselves or hiring a locksmith. Travis and I discussed how to do this. Zanotti supplies this information and the necessary change key on request.
- When I purchased my safe in 2018 the policy was to not record the lock combinations. However that policy was modified. They now retain the combinations for a fixed period. Why? They've had instances where customers died, and did not leave the combination to the appropriate people. So with presentation of proper documentation and authority they could help heirs with that problem. (My records are already gone.) Said customer records are kept in a secure location. They are not available to general staff.
- Upon specific customer request, they will destroy a customer's record.
- After the Liberty story broke, Zanotti contacted an attorney to confirm what is legally required to force them to reveal a customer's combination, if they have it. The requirement in Iowa is a specific court order. A simple search warrant won't do it. Their policy shown below will be posted on their website.
- Zanotti is a privately owned family business and they are sturdy Second Amendment supporters.
Needless to say Zanotti's business has picked up! I will continue to recommend them and their products, if their products are a good fit for someone's purpose. They are not 'cheap'. But you get what you pay for. And as a customer since 2018 I know Zanotti stands behind them.
The current Zanotti policy:
Good to know. If I needed complete assurance that only I could access the safe, I would change the combination myself, but the assurances you received are VERY good, and probably the best that can be expected from any business.
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On 9/7/2023 at 7:11 AM, voyager9 said:Certainly their original policy was concerning but we should give them some credit for fixing it. Even if it’s only due to the severe backlash, the end result is a better policy and more customer control. That’s a good thing.
They didn't "fix" shit. In this day and age, words are the cheapest commodity on the planet. At such time as there are multiple credible reports that similar situations have occured, and in each case Liberty demanded a subpeona, and refused to provide the code without one, then you would be justified in lauding them for fixing the problem. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Liberty might not even get the opportunity. There appears to be no lack of competition in the gun safe market, and a well-earned gun owner boycott could probably take them under in short order. In that event, I wonder if they would market the codes as assets...
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21 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:I do not believe security is an illusion. Perhaps total security, being 100% protected is an illusion. To say security is an illusion would mean there is no point in doing anything to protect one's self. That's just plain silly. Having fences, safes and locks on doors is secure to a degree. Having 15' concrete walls, armed guards and a vault room is secure to a much higher degree. Then there is Ft Knox security, literally the gold standard.
With enough force, anything can get broken into, the trick is to have a level of security commensurate to the anticipated threat level. If a would be bad guy thinks they can get caught or killed, they generally move on to another target. Think of the least secure house on the block as the slowest gazelle. It will get eaten first.
That is true. There is also a second factor, and that is the damage antricipated if a particular aspect of security is compromised. That is distinct from threat level, which as you have used it, is the probabiltiy of compromise. In some domains, the two factors can actually be approximately expressed as a formula. It is similar to actuarial computation in the insurance industry.
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On 9/6/2023 at 9:04 AM, 45Doll said:By the way, my Zanotti Armor safe has a classic tumbler lock with key, and they throw away the combination after shipment.
I know the feds have a blow torch, but they wouldn't get any help from Zanotti.
Problem is that you have only Zanotti's word that they securely dispose of the combination after shipment. Now maybe you have other reasons to believe that they keep their word, and I hope htat is so, but absent that, I don't know if I would assume that they do as they claim. Integrity in business seems to be fast disappearing, and government over-regulation reduces competition and, along with it, the incentive to take good care of the customer to avoid losing business to a competitor (because that regulation regime thins out those competitors that do not do as the government wishes).
EDITED TO ADD: That goes double for Liberty's newfound concern for their customers' rights.
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On 8/10/2023 at 9:36 AM, CMJeepster said:I'm somewhat surprised that Stockton has a GOP mayor. I was through there on several occasions in the early 2000s on business, and it seemed to be going down the liberal sewer then.
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19 hours ago, JackDaWack said:Where does the NRA fit into the question you were presented with? For all practical purposes, the NRA doesn't advocate in NJ much. We only have the leg of ANJRPC, which does a lot. My thoughts of the NRA wouldn't change the response to my question.
"NRA doesn't advocate in NJ much". That may be true, but to me is evading an important part of the issue. Many, if not most, ranges in NJ advocate for the NRA . Many if not most require NRA membership to join the range. Most appear to frequently encourage their members to engage in a variety of NRA activities that make money for that group. That is money that could stay in the members' wallets, or go towards firearms or ammo, or even be donated to an organization that is actually making an honest effort to promote firearms rights in this crummy state. To me, that stinks. The management of those ranges know full well what a crock the NRA is. Maybe it is too much to expect them to repudiate it, but at the very least they could stop playing recruiting and collection agent for it.
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8 hours ago, GRIZ said:Read 10A.
The Tenth Amendment denies States powers prohibited by the U. S. Constitution. At that point, the U. S. Constitution included both First and Second Amendments, which circumstance clearly (to me, at least) prohibits any State from either denying free speech or infringing arms rights. What part of that is inconsistent with what I wrote?
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
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11 hours ago, JackDaWack said:So you believe all the NJ gun advocates should stop qualifying people to carry firearms?
I believe that all NJ gun advocates should be taking all practical measures to repudiate and disassociate themselves from the reprehensible, parasitic, and exploitative conduct of Wayne LaPierre and the NRA. Do you disagree with that premise? If so, on what grounds?
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We have a >30 yo Westinghouse top loader. It recently tried to crap out on us, and I was ready to buy a replacement. After reading over 100 reviews on about a dozen "top-rated" washers, and noting the many, many complaints about "green" "water saving" machines that don't get clothes clean because of the lack or water (duh!), I contacted a local repair shop. They came out and completely rebuilt our washer for a total cost of about $450. Yeah, that isn't much less thatn the cost of a new machine, but 6 months later it is still going strong, and our clothes get clean.
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On 8/4/2023 at 7:58 PM, Mrs. Peel said:I've recently taken the plunge (a very expensive rabbit hole btw) of high power precision rifle (F-class & benchrest more specifically). So, I've been on a similar path as you - in terms of investigating various ranges. Let me share what's I've found so far. Going from North to South, and adding to the 2 posted above by @njJoniGuy:
- Cherry Ridge, Highland Lakes, NJ - 300 yards - you can join or attend comps open to the public. (I'm a member here - it's a LOVELY range - large - 100 yd rifle, 200/300 yard rifle, a pistol range, a shotgun range, etc. - something for everyone!)
- Hudson Farms, Andover, NJ - 900 yards, longest in NJ - but an elite private club (think: CEOs landing at their private helipad kind of elite). I think this rule applies: "if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it" - lol. The grounds are stunning! And it's worth a visit to see their gobsmacking Griffin & Howe gun room (a venerable old outfitter/sporting goods company located on the property). That is open to the public if you're just visiting. That said though, I suppose you could take lessons through the Griffin & Howe training school & get access to their rifle range that way. The lessons are a little rich for my wallet, but if you can afford it... more power to you! They also have a rifle competition in the fall as I remember that is also open to the public.
- Central Jersey Pistol & Rifle, Jackson, NJ - 300 yards - you can join. I'm not sure if they have comps though - you can check their schedule. Or perhaps others here know?
- Cumberland Rifleman, Millville, NJ - 600 yards - can join or attend comps open to the public.
Depending on where you live, you might want to consider out-of-state ranges, too, in neighboring states: like NY, PA, CT.... because there's really not a ton of longer distance ranges in NJ. If you don't mind a road trip though, there are several ranging out to 1000 yards or more in these other states. I've noticed some of them have deals with local hotels so if you're there for a comp, for instance, you get a really cheap room price.
Good luck! Hope you find what you're looking for.
One caveat on Cumberland Riflemen is that, while it has a very good reputation, it may not be the most convenient range to join, unless you already know someone who is a member. New members are inducted once per year (late September or early October iirc) and are accepted only if sponsored by current members. Before I got rid of my .50 BMG, I had wanted to join to take advantage of the 600 yard range there (ntm that it is only a 20 minute drive away). I somehow found one of their range instructors on another forum. I mentioned that I did not know anyone there to sponsor me, and he told me that I should come to some of their social functions to get to know some members. That sounded reasonable, so I pulled up their event calendar, only to discover the events didn't begin until mid-September. So unless someone wanted to go to social events in the Fall of one year to schmooze, and not join until the Fall of the following year, there appeared to be a bit of a Catch-22 for prospective new members who didn't already have connections. I decided that it probably wasn't worth the trouble, and not long after that, NJ decided to register and tax .50 BMG, so I sold mine.
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NJSP REQUALIFICATION
in Current New Jersey Gun Laws Discussion
Posted
Unfortunately, Thomas allowed for "reasonable" vetting for carry in Bruen. A rare mistake on his part, imo. You are correct, there is no provision in the 2nd A to require any kind of qualification, testing, or training to bear a firearm, any more than any such nonsense is required to exercise the right to free speech.