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raz-0

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Posts posted by raz-0


  1. Ok, I got the go ahead to make the August USPSA matcha special classifier match. 6 classifiers in one day. If you want to shoot it, you should have your USPSA number before then. WE do not do the $40 deal for special classifier matches. The entry fee will be more than usual to cover the extra submission fees.

     

    I'll add more specifics as we get closer, but I wanted to give a heads up so interested people could get all their stuff sorted out ahead of time and plan for it.


  2. I think it is useful information, but I think that people declaring it the benchmark for a good AR are idiots who don't know why what works works and what breaks breaks. Some of the stuff on it is universally key to a good rifle. Some of it is good to have to feel better about reliability, but not a guarantee. Some of it just doesn't apply to anything except full auto. Some of it has perfectly good alternatives. Some of it doesn't measure what they think they measure. Then there are things that matter to a gun running well and accurately that aren't even on the list.

     

    For example, the bolt. There are perfectly good bolts that are not carpenter 158. There are steels out there that are metallurgically identical to carpenter 158 that are not called carpenter 158 (at least if it is like every other steel on the planet). That being said, there is so little variance in how a gun handles based on the bolt that a MPI, HPT bolt is something that is easy to find ofr a good price, and can save you a lot of experimenting and headache over trying to do it differently. So the stuff they list about peening and testing is useful to know. But in reality, you need to know if they test every unit, or batch test. If they batch test what is the ratio, etc. Only if EVERY piece is tested does testing mean you are guaranteed to catch parts that have been built badly.

     

    Then there's the extractor buffer setup. There are at least 4 legitimate fixes to this that work well that I am aware of. 1) increase spring rate by using a spring with a higher spring rate. 2) increase spring rate by using a longer spring and pre-compressing it. 3) increase the spring rate by preventing the compression of parts of it (o-ring) 4) increase the spring rate by adding a second spring. They count coils as far as I can tell, which means absolutely nothing.

     

    Then there's the carrier profile. Sure, they are right that a fully shrouded carrier ensures the carrier cocks the hammer, and you don't impact the firing pin. However, the increased lock time comes form mass. Mass is a function of material jsut as much as profile. so is it M-16 profile, or military spec on all materials etc? There are also benefits toa lightened carrier group, and if you aren't running a carbine length gas system, they might be worth more than increased lock time.

     

     

    Carrier key staking. A firmly attached gas key is 100% critical to a reliable AR. Period. This tells you it is staked form the top or side. It doesn't tell you if it is staked WELL. In general, it is harder to screw up side staking, but it most definitely can and has been done by many manufacturers.

     

    Barrel steel. There are a mess of good acceptable answers. I don't think there is any one goal for a gun that has only one right answer. So while the info is useful, it doesn't really matter in terms of reliability.

     

    barrel testing. Same as above comment about testing. It's nice to know, and personally, I'd prefer that any barrel I put on my gun has been individually HTP and MPI tested. I'd accept one that has been just individually MPI tested if that's all I could get.But beggears can't be choosers. You want a gun and cna get neither, you can either forgo that or forgo a gun.

     

    Chamber. I used to believe this was good information. These days, I believe that there are really only two answers to chamber size. .223-ish and Something .223 is but with a longer leade of indeteminite dimensions. Why? because in attempting to figure out what the hell the noveske match mod0 chamber was, I got a hold of the actual dimensions of a bunch of chamber reamers. There were at least 3 labeled as 5.56, two labeled as 5.56 sam-r, two labeled .223 wylde, and one other proprietary .223/5.56 reamer. Not a single one had the same dimensions as others claiming to be the same thing. One of the .223 reamers actually was dimensioned more generously than one of the generous .223/ tight 5.56 modified chambers. So really who the hell knows. It's one of those very messy things where the answer to the question asked means very little and nobody will give the answer to the right question.

     

    Rifling twist. Nice to know, but not a guarantee of anything. It lets you make a guess about what will probably run well and have problems in terms of bullets.

     

    M4 feedramps. Are you going to be using this upper on a full auto gun? No? Then the only thing that really matters is that you don't put an m4 cut upper reciever together with a non-M4 cut barrel extension. Especially if going mid-length or longer on the gas system with a heavy carrier and heavy buffer. That all slows the action down enough you don't really have to worry about outrunning the magazine springs, which is the point of M4 cuts in the first place.

     

    M4 cuts done before or after anodizing. I've seen both. As far as I can tell this really doesn't matter.

     

    What it leaves out about m4 feed cuts, that CAN matter if you need them is how aggressive they are. I ahve seen m4 cut uppers that are nearly an afterthought, and some that go so far that I question if they ahve removed too much material.

     

    The type of front sightand how it is attached. My take on this? Who cares? Seriously, I've listened to people who said the world was going to end if you used anything but a taper pin attached gas block. History has proven them wrong as there are plenty of examples of set screw blocks, straight pin blocks, clamp on blocks, etc surviving tons of use and abuse. Once again, you care about done right, not which method was chosen.

     

     

    Heat shields. Double is more heat resistant. A good free floated forearm however actually provides improved performance and functionality to either of the options in their list.

     

    Extension diameter. Means nothing in terms of reliability. Means a lot if you plan on buying a replacement stock.

     

    Extension material. There are plenty of ways to get to strong. but it can't hurt knowing what material they use.

     

    Staked or unstaked castle nut. Staked is less likely to come undone. However, since the list first came out, manufacturers have gone nuts with this. I've seen staking so aggressive, I'd consider it damaging and detrimental to the firearm rather than something reassuring. You cna also have something that is staked, but insufficiently to be useful. Once again, this is something you care about being done right, and there is not only one right answer.

     

    Buffer weight. You need to know if you need to fix gas system balance issues, but just because you know what they chose doesn't mean they chose right. You want to know, but it guarantees nothing.

     

     

    So yeah, in the end the list doesn't really tell you much of what you need to know. Namely if it was done RIGHT. Just because a business has a history of doing it right doesn't mean they will tomorrow.


  3. OK, so this myth (have seen it many times before) states that the crud is basically crimping the front of the round down, and makes high pressures.

     

    Ring of crud cannot raise pressures much at all. Think about crimping for a second (which is safe and doesnt blow out primers etc etc). If you reload a round, and you crimp it, think amount how much force you exert on that lever. Not only do you have ~18" of mechanical advantage, but you have to consciously give it a good tug. For it to raise pressures beyond that, you would have to logically be exerting even MORE force on the .357 as you load it into the dirty chamber, with NO mechanical advantage, in order to exceed the pressures a crimp makes! (You cant physically provide enough force with your fingers). Ring of crud can make difficult extraction. It will NOT make high pressure.

     

    This is how yet another internet myth is debunked.

     

    I like seeing you use logic, but you are leaving things out, and are far from debunking it. The ring of crud does not have to form where it interferes with the case mouth. Even if it is softish and is squeezed forward by the case mouth of the longer brass, it can still form a wedge of crud that can wedge against the sides of the bullet with an effect similar to seating a rifle round against the lands with a charge not tolerant of that. It doesn't KB the gun usually, but you will get hard extraction and blown out primers.

     

    What is the OP complaing about.. hard extraction and blown out primers.

     

    Your logic about having to insert it with so much force as to crimp the round tighter to hold the bullet in SOOOOO much that pressures spike is the absolute wrong way to think about it. The force just has to make a wedge out of leading and other barrel crud. The simple machine of a wedge, placed in the path of a bullet powered by an explosion, is what does the work, not your hand. By your logic, wheel chocks are an impossibility because I would have to wedge them under my car's tires with enough force to lift the car.

     

    Do you believe popping primers on 5.56 ammo loaded to 62k psi when shot in a .223 with a shorter leade is a myth too? It's the same principle as what I'm saying above. The shorter leade adds friction earlier than intended in the designed operation of the cartridge and undesirable things happen.

     

    Have I seen the problem in person? No, I dislike revolvers so don't shoot them a lot. Have I seen people have problems getting .357 in a chamber when they have shot a lot of .38 from residue? Yes. Have I seen a lot of people mess up their gear by just pushing a little harder? Definitely. Cleaning your chamber would prevent the above, but I can see how it would happen that someone deccides to just push it in harder. TO make a bad situation, you just have to scrape some buildup into an obstruction, whichouwould probably take about the same amount of force as say.. cleaning out the chamber. Whcih you do with a short brush and basic hand power all the time.


  4. raz-0: most quality battle belts have parts or the whole bottom portion of the system exposed, allowing for belt holsters (that have a slight drop) or leg-drop holsters to be attached directly to the belt (opposed to the battle belt). Of course it isn't to the same effect as the VTAC as you can choose to skip a MOLLE partition and run the belt exposed (which I do like).

    However, there are plenty of belt holsters that have a slight drop that are available. I believe Caine runs one of these on his ATS. I personally run a MOLLE-adapted holster directly on my ATS so I can't necessarily comment on its effectiveness.

     

    Ah didn't know they might be open on the bottom. That would be just as useful for most things. Next months toy budget is probably going to go on some 3 gun gear. This month, reloading components came in stock and I was running low, so 6000 pistol and 1000 rifle bullets got bought instead.


  5. Huh? The battle belt is basically a belt with padding/molle attachment on the outside. why would you want to put the actual belt part on the outside? It would block all of the molle attachment points.

     

    Look at the vtac battle belt, it is smart in it's design. It has the molle webbing divided into segments with slots open to the belt tunnel between segments so you can run the belt on the outside for portions of it. Why is this smart? In the real world, it is probably mostly to support good retention holsters. Most of them don't have a good way of mounting it on molle webbing. So you run the belt outside for one segment, and attach the holster to that. For 3-gunning, you are going to have more gear that falls into that category. It gives you options, which isn't usually a bad thing. Is it the RIGHT thing? No idea, I haven't even had a chance to play with a battle belt style thing yet to decide if it IS a good idea, or just LOOKS like a good idea.


  6. yeh, looks like they are all the same length.

     

    the fajen stocks look good, but damn pricey.... who makes the knock offs?

     

    Pricey is realtive, and it looks like all the clones and competitors have changed since I looked last. Fajen makes a plastic version for about $80-90. richard's microfit offers a wide selection of real 10/22 stocks, but aren't super cheap, and you ahve to finish them yourself. Boyd's makes some decent ones as well.

     

    You can also just go to rimfire central and start browsing the 10/22 builds posted there until you see something that makes you not care that it isn't dirt cheap ;).


  7. Wow, someone is getting a demotion on that one.

     

    I can't tell what kind of firearm it is though. I think I see a rifle-type detachable magazine, but other than that I can't tell.

     

    Looks like a 16" ar-15 carbine with a collapsible stock, and a some kind of mag pouch attached to the stock.


  8. I wasn't referring to the link in this thread.. I never actually clicked on that one... I was referring to how I've seen him do it in other videos I've seen, but your comment made me second guess myself so I had to go find what I thought I saw... luckily, I'm not going crazy

     

    Scroll to about 8 minutes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOK0MQCr1o&feature=channel_video_title

     

    I agree tho - all slings are a compromise of one sort or other.

     

    Uhh, he has is on him in a manner so he can walk around with it slung muzzle down on his back. It's a perfectly valid thing to do. When he is actually shooting, he isn't using it at all. Seeing as he is going to be playing with a handgun while being video taped first, I can't really blame him for that choice, especially if it is what came on the gun, and it isn't the type of sling he prefers. Unless you know you are going to be going prone, for knocking around muzzle down is safer, and he wants it on his back cause he's planning to do other things. Just because he wasn't using it for much of anything doesn't mean he doesn't know how.

     

    Like I said before, rifle slings seem to be the biggest mishmash of compromise, and I'm not going to blame anyone for using one "wrong", as I can take pretty much any sling system, ask it to do something valid and not contrived, and it will suck at it. It' will usually do some other valid thing way better than it's competition, but then suck at something else.


  9. The reason you don't see them in a lot of gun stores is this.

     

    1) The margin on them isn't that great unless you get stocking dealer status. To do that you need to pony up and order about $10,000 of inventory at once, and order a certain minimum quantity per year. Even then, the margin isn't something to make a distributor see dollar signs, so they are pretty reliant on a stocking dealer network.

     

    2) They have a minimum advertised price policy that makes it hard to let people know you have a better price than STI insists upon being advertised.


  10. 1) The difficult extraction in a 357 is often due to shooting (shorter) 38 special rounds through the gun and not scrubbing the cylinder, then shooting (longer) 357 mag ammo. A ring of crud builds up and causes difficult extraction because the long 357 brass expands in the cylinder and forms a tight seal against the crud.

     

    That ring of crud can also raise pressures significantly. Which can result in difficult ejection, backed out primers, ruptured primers (op's problem), and case head separation.

     

    So... might not be a problem with the ammo if you put a bunch of .38 special through the thing.


  11. Cool beans! That Steel might be from the Top Gun Match on Saturday. Thanks for the heads-up.

     

    They might use it again on Sunday. If you're around, come check it out. It looked HEAVY to me this morning when I was there. I didn't touch it either!

     

    yeah AFAIK that is what it is from. It wasn't locked up because it IS heavy. I don't think anyone has shot it up with rifle yet because they did bother to move it into the side berm where it's hard to shoot at it.

     

    The club did have a MUCH nicer plate rack. I believe we gave it away because it was so heavy and if we left it out it would just get shot up with rifle by idiots. It might have come back because it was REALLY way to heavy.


  12. I have some of there pistol magazine holders and a pistol chest rig from them, it works and it didn't break the bank.

     

    Bummer, just looked closer at their belt. you can't run the belt on the outside of the molle it looks like, which means securing a lot of the bits to it that I'd want to may be a PITA. OTOH it's $15 and I have a knife.


  13. Just FYI, I've been thinking about trying a battle belt to see if I like it for a quick 3 gun rig. But the prices are a bit high for experimenting. You can score a condor tactical battle belt for $15-20 if you look around. No idea if the quality is good or bad, I know I've seen a lot of people say good htings about their bags, but if you are like me and don't know if you even really like the concept, you can check it out.

     

    The hobby fund is more than tapped at the moment due to reloading components, so no experiment for me this month. (the non-camo are $15 form lapolice gear, who are reasonable to deal with).


  14. Jeff, I think whats tripping you up is that you are assuming the dot has to be in the middle to be accuracte. It s not the case (in a quality red dot optic) If the dot is on your target, even if it is not in the center, it will hit whatever the dot is on.

     

     

    Mostly true, especially once you get out to 50 yards or more. Most red dots are sold as being parallax free. They aren't. They just have little to none after a fairly short distance. Usually somewhere between 25-50 yards. Doing a 50 yard zero you can be pretty safe that you aren't screwing something up without working hard at screwing up. At 25, you can get bitten fairly easily and the error adds up quick as you move the target out farther.

     

    I have shot the rifle. The existing sights are pretty close to on. So the point I'm trying to make is this: Let's say I look out the window and fix the iron sights on a knot in a tree or something far away. Since the sights are on, that is where the bullet will go. Also, since this optic co-witnesses, the red dot appears to show up right where it should be if I'm looking through the iron sights. But, while still holding the rifle as still as I can (i.e. still pointing at that knot in the tree) if I move my head (not the rifle) a little bit off the direct axis of the optic, the dot moves. To me that means the red dot is not in fact pointing where the bullet will go. That's as best as I can explain it.

     

    Take your iron sights and move your head. Guess what, they aren't pointed where the bullet will go anymore either. Just the fact that they have two points of reference on the rifle so you know when you are outside the limitation of the sighting device because you can't see the front sight and rear sight at the same time. Especially with peep sights, you can still get parallax problems with head position without hitting that limit. The difference with the red dot is that it is easier to see.


  15. It would be nice if someone showed him how to use a "tactical" 2-point sling correctly...

     

    That said, I still watch from time to time... There are so many people on youtube that are trying to emulate him, and most of them do a p*ss poor job... I may find him somewhat annoying, but his reviews are pretty detailed. But mostly, his channel (and a bunch of other youtube channels) are a good way to kill 20 minutes while I'm eating lunch at my desk at work.

     

    Well I sat through that video to see his awful use of a two point sling. I only saw him wearing a single point sling or none at all. So what are you talking about. IMO there's something critically wrong with every sling ever made. So pretty much all of them are use what works best for you however it works best. There isn't much "right" out there on tap in the sling world.

     

    If the guy is going to be on youtube, he needs to get less butthurt by people making comments. He's definitely a bit of a whiner when he starts complaining about people who don't agree with him.

     

    Watching his rant there, I can say I agree with a lot of his philosophy of try it and see what works for you. I disagree with a lot of his conclusions, or at least how he presents them.


  16. Back before I started reloading, everyone I ordered in bulk from required ID to be faxed to them. Most were because that was state law there, but a number were just because I was in NJ and we have ammo sale laws. Natchez got a lot of my business simply because the first time I ordered something form them and asked where to fax my ID, they said something along the lines of "We don't operate in NJ, we don't need ID in this state, and their law only regulates the seller, so they can come here and try and enforce it."

     

    The first and last time I ran into a vendor that was better informed about the details of NJ statues than I was. I also appreciated the attitude.

     

    Ahh, for the days when a box of brass cased, copper jacketed 124gr 9mm was $3.99 a box of 50.

     

    To add to the list, jgsales.com was pretty good the last time I did business with them. They occasionally have some nice deals, but more importantly although not always the cheapest, they pretty consistently sell based on what their inventory cost them, not what the market is anticipating. I always check them out when ammo prices are running up.


  17. Well at least for the mormon guy, there is the benefit of being shielded by low hanging fruit. LDS still requires you to have a years worth of provisions in the home to be a good little mormon, but they have frowned on weapons for a while now in that equation. Lots of survival types refer to SLC as a supermarket.

     

    The reality is that around here, anything that goes past about 10 days and is nationwide is going to leave this place stripped and barren for quite some time. Especially if it happens in winter. Population density is just WAY too high.


  18. I take it it was the popper on the left? Got the video?

     

    If you shot the popper face on, it would fall. the folks that were having issues were the ones trying to cut the corner and the round was just bouncing off the side.

     

    No, the popper was set too heavy. We had problems with it falling. Actually shot it with official USPSA calibration ammo becuase someone on our squad had some. It didn't even pretend to think about going down with a hit in the center of the sweet spot. Went down fine with major though.

     

    I'm surprised nobody challenged it earlier than that, we got to it pretty late in the day as it was our last stage.

     

    I shot the popper face on and it did not fall. I wasn't trying to cut the corner, I am not that good yet. Watch the vid via youtube and switch it to 720p so you can see the hit. It's dead on target. Although I reload for practice this was factory American Eagle ammo. Yeah it was the one on the left. Not the activator.

     

     

    edit, it's at approx 18 seconds in. You can see it waver but not fall. If it happens in the future I know to shoot it again!

     

    Well unless you shot it in rapid succession to drive it down, it likely wouldn't have helped. I'll bet you were shooting factory 115 grain plinking stuff. Which makes over minor, although not usually by much, but due to the light bullets is often not so hot at knocking stuff down. Driving backwards falling steel down sends bullets outside the range more, so it's not the best plan. Realistically, you should have called for calibration. It failed later in the day on a call like that, and you would have gotten a reshoot for range equipment failure.

     

    If it is set bad, and you shoot it till it goes down, you don't get a choice of calling for calibration.

     

    From the video, you went too far and were shooting it on angle, bullet would just bounce.

     

    With minor, as far as you could shoot it was a few steps from the start , head on. Watch Jon's video.

     

    That's not how it is supposed to work. A popper should fall to calibration ammo from wherever you can shoot it. When someone challenges it and calls for calibration, the calibration shot should be from where the shooter took the shot. Unless I forget, or it is windy and I have to set them a bit heavier, I always set my poppers to fall from a light know with my knuckles. I do this because it keeps stuff from backing up due to reshoots and challenges, and because it means that anyone trying to rules lawyer a miss, bad hit, or cheating ammo into a reshoot gets screwed while the guy shooting factory 115gr 9mm doesn't.


  19. The hogue is a bit on the miniature side IMO. I have a Bell * Carleson anschutz style stock, and it's meant for standing and prone, a bit short for anything else. Unfortunately it is also short for the eye relief of a number of scopes, so less than ideal. The fajen wood laminate stocks are pretty nicely suited for your average adult size as are most of the knockoffs of it.


  20. Just looking around and figuring buying ammo in bulk would be my best bet for saving money. I have a question about 9mm ammo though since im new and what not. Does it mean anything that the rounds say luger on them? I was looking at wolf and Brown bear ammo and they are really cheap in bulk. I was wondering if i were to shoot them out of a 92fs or sig2022 would they harm the pistol in anyway? Is it worth it to spend the extra cash? Pistol will b used for range shooting

     

    TO answer your first question: 9x19m, 9mm parabellum, and 9mm luger are all the same thing, and you cna run across ammo labeled as all of that and just 9mm, especially in catalogs. Most boxes will say 9x19mm on it someplace. 9mm kurz and 9mm short are the same thing as .380 ACP. I have yet to see that referred to as just 9mm, but I have seen .380 acp labeled as 9mm kurz and 9mm short on older foreign ammo. 9x18 is 9mm makarov. I have seen that just labeled 9mm in some catalogs, but it is not common. Then there's 9mmx21 and 9mmx23, which I have never seen labeled as anything other than that.

     

    Will cheap Russian ammo hurt your gun? That depends. I've been pretty happy with my experiences with wolf/WPA. It's dirty, but pretty consistent. What I have seen with some steel cased russian pistol ammo that IS dangerous was insufficient crimp/neck tension/sealant. I don't know which of those three they were counting on to prevent bullet setback, but you could shove them into the case just pinching them between thumb and forefinger pretty well. They were .45 in a modern gun, so a lot of headroom on pressure, and nobody got hurt. SOmething like that in 40 or .357 sig could go pretty badly though. I would and have bought wolf since they cleaned up their act as importers and got better specs and QC that they try to enforce. I'd just hand cycle some bullets first and make sure you aren't seeing lots of setback. If you do, don't shoot it and give them a call about it.


  21. From the way I read this you're talking about the Indoor Range since you mentioned walls & ceiling. It all boils-down to learning your "Cone of Fire", which is drastically different at different distances & target sizes, as well as the height of the gun's muzzle and the shooter. Since we have smaller frames for the close (7, 10, 15 yards) shooting, we had to have a rule that would be easy to read and cover all situations, including the larger B-27's & B-34 Silhouettes that barely fit on the frames. So the easy solution is to use 2 frames (if the place isn't busy) with one target on each. Now you can shoot at 2 distances without going forward of the firing line, thereby keeping things "moving-along". This also works when you're guesting someone at the Indoor, since now you each have your own frame at the same or different distances for more fun! Just remember to not "hog" all of the frames making others wait, and to clean-up good after you're done, and be safe!

     

     

    God the rules really need to be rewritten, there is no complete and up to date set. Please do NOT shoot at targets in other lanes. If you are in lane 7, you should NOT be shooting anything but the target in lane 7. PERIOD. Why? because you wind up shooting the side walls and other people's targets. Also, our backstop is designed to prevent splatter and ricochets when you are more or less shooting right at it. By shooting cross lane, you increase the amount of splatter. Even more awesome, you almost 100% DON'T increase it for yourself, but only for others. Also, if you have the target in front of you at 25 yards, and one in the lane to the left at 10 yards, and you are in the middle of the range, you are probably shooting the wall. It's not designed for being shot a lot, and that and is unsafe.

     

    Also, one target per frame in the middle. This is really only important once you move closer than 25 yards. Why? Because as you move a target closer, a short shooters cone of fire at a target taller than they are heads to the ceiling. A tall shooter's towards a target shorter than them towards the floor. We put out frames of a fixed size that try to be the least problematic for the largest gorup of shooters so those challenged in the concept of geometry won't destroy the place too bad. You put targets at the top and bottom, you exacerbate that even further.

     

    The frames cost money? It's wood and cardboard. It's cheap. The heat for the indoor range is NOT. The armor for the walls is not. The acoustic tiling is not (seriously, one panel of that stuff is like $20-30, a target frame is about $3.20 of sticks and cardboard if that).


  22. We NEED pension and health care reform. I say this as a mostly state worker (a good chunk of my pay and benefits are state funded, but not all). As a whole, my benefits package already matches what they want the unions to accept. It's still a pretty killer benefits package. It is not something to be afraid of.

     

    I try to explain to the teachers I know that you DON'T want a pension, you want a 403b with a nice match. Their answer is that their "pensions are guaranteed! There's no guarantee with a 401k!!!" My answer to that is your pension pays out way more than it brings in. a boatload of greedy political hacks can use it as their private piggy bank, and not even come close to breaking the law. On top of that, the math breaks down and the only way it will be able to pay out is to work it like a pyramid scheme with an expanding base, make sound investments, or to get constant infusion of cash form outside the pension system. Option 1 isn't likely to occur at a sufficient rate. Option two is the same as a 401k. Option 3 clearly isn't happening as the politicians have realized they can grab the cash. The only thing guaranteed about the pension system is that at some point and time, the recipients checks are going to bounce. The teachers don't seem to grasp that, historically, pensions have gone bankrupt, and so can theirs.

     

    I get a 403b. At least I know how much is actually in the bank, and the politicians and my employer can't touch what is there. I also have some degree of input to manage investment risk, which the pension system does not, despite being invested and having investment risks.

     

    If the NJEA really wants the heat off their union, they should roll out the vote to reform how school construction is funded. It's pretty much designed to vacuum tax dollars into cronies pockets. Instead, you could continue to say how important you are and that the taxpayer owes you and can't replace you.

     

     

     

    Our graduation rate is 18th in the nation, and we cheat to get that high.

     

    Our teacher pay is 4TH in the nation.

     

    I can also say this as a product of public education. Since I graduated, the only place I have noticed a significant increase in the difficulty/quality of education is K-4. The same schools I attended have between 4 and 6 times as many administrative staff. They have added teachers aids in the classroom despite class sizes being similar if not the same. Adjusted for inflation, in the schools I attended, the teachers' pay has gone up about 25% across the board despite the job not really changing. More importantly in this comparison, those schools I attended were essentially all bringing up the bottom of the top 10% of public schools. Despite all the extra manpower, new facilities, teachers entrenched in their jobs for decades at the redline on salary for their education level, every single one of them has fallen in their rankings.

     

    I have head endless numbers of teachers complain about being forced to be over glorified baby sitters these days. People have noticed. You don't need to pay someone 100k a year to be a baby sitter. This is why people are pissed off.

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