Frank Jack Fiamingo
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FBI DATA PROVES ANTI-GUNNERS
WRONG ON CRIME, SAYS CCRKBA
BELLEVUE, WA – Preliminary crime data from the FBI for 2010 adds more evidence that gun prohibitionists have been consistently wrong, and that more guns do not equal more crime, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.
According to the FBI, all four violent crime offense categories show declines nationwide for 2010, with murder and manslaughter down 4.4 percent from 2009, robbery down 9.5 percent and aggravated assault down 3.6 percent. Forcible rape was down 4.2 percent. Violent crime declined in all four regions of the country. At the same time, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, firearm sales were up dramatically.
“Gun banners can spin data anyway they want,” observed CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, “but in the final analysis, their contention that more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens translates to more crime is clearly nonsense. More than 6.2 million citizens are licensed to carry, Wisconsin appears ready to join states with rational carry laws, and the NSSF reports that the largest surge in gun sales happened during the years 2008 to 2010.
“Instead of more guns resulting in more crime,” he added, “increased gun ownership just might be having the opposite effect. Of course, you'd never get the gun prohibition lobby to admit that.”
According to the FBI report, released Monday, violent crime declined in all city categories, with the greatest drop at 6.9 percent in cities with populations of 250,000 to 499,999, although these cities reported a 3 percent increase in murder and manslaughter. Violent crime in rural counties decreased 6.4 percent and in metropolitan counties, the decline was 6 percent, the FBI report said. Murder and manslaughter dropped 25.2 percent in small cities (below 10,000 populations). Robbery is also down across the board, the FBI report said.
“The bottom line,” Gottlieb stated, “is that none of the extremist predictions about blood in the streets and skyrocketing body counts as a result of increased gun ownership, reformed gun laws and expanded concealed carry have come true. Once again, the Chicken Little mentality of the anti-gun lobby has been refuted by the facts.
With more than 650,000 members and supporters nationwide, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of the nation’s premier gun rights organizations. As a non-profit organization, the Citizens Committee is dedicated to preserving firearms freedoms through active lobbying of elected officials and facilitating grass-roots organization of gun rights activists in local communities throughout the United States. The Citizens Committee can be reached by phone at (425) 454-4911, on the Internet at www.ccrkba.org or by email to [email protected].
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Ok point taken but the father may not be equally responsible but at the very least he is responsible. I think any women who puts herself in a vulnerable position is partially responsible. I agree that we should feel safe in this world but there are evil people and it our responsibility to take reasonable measures for our protection and safety. Personal responsibility and safety start with the individual.
These are my opinion.
Yes, I also believe in accepting personal responsibility.
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The entire situation could have been avoided if the father had not stopped to close to the car in front of him. Leave space to make a quick exit all you need is your gas pedal not a gun. I put as much blame on the driver.
Always avoid a confrontation if at all possible.
As true as that might be, that is a lot like saying a woman was "asking for it" because she was wearing a short skirt. I think we need to be careful about blaming the victim. I agree that it is always wise to be alert, but that doesn't mean that if you screw up you should be defenseless. That is kind of a dangerous mindset in my opinion.
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How would anyone in NJ know if a car behind them was "too close?"
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Nice read and thank you. I fully agree regarding those who fought for our freedom. However at this time we are losing daily battles to the intrusive gov. and, I think, the war is also going badly.
Concerning Gov. Christi, he is refreshing and I support him. I say this in the absolute and also as compared to others like Corzine.
From my perspective there is a lot more to learn about Christi regarding our forum issues. Sounds like there is a lot to NOT like. Maybe you could elaborate on what he has and has not done.
Thanks.
Thank you. Yes, I agree completely that if you compare Chris Christie to Jon Corzine, Christie will always come out on top. That just isn't enough in my opinion. You are also correct that Chris Christie is no friend of gun owners. Several 2A rights groups have approached the governor on a variety of 2A issues to no avail. If this were simply a matter of target shooting, it would be of little concern, but we are talking about the fundamental human right of self-defense and defense of our loved ones. A right not only protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution, but one that has repeatedly been upheld and supported by the Supreme Court of this Nation. As a former Attorney General, you would think that Governor Christie would understand the implications of disregarding a fundamental FREEDOM that has been continually supported by the Supreme Court, and is routinely recognized in practically every other State in the Union.
If there is something I am missing, I am more than open to discussing it in greater detail. I like some of Governor Christies policies, but it is hard for me to get behind someone who is THIS far out of touch on an issue so vital to the safety of our families. In plain and simple language, Chris Christie does not trust the decent, responsible, law-abiding people of New Jersey to keep and bear arms DESPITE what it says in the Constitution. I don't see any other way to interpret his behavior on this issue.
If you are interested in some of the reasons for my feeling this way, you can visit www.ConservativeNewJersey.com and search on my name "Frank Fiamingo". You will find a number of articles that I have written on the subject. I admit some of them are deliberately confrontational, but I sincerely believe that it is way PAST time that this issue be addressed head on. Avoiding the issue by implying that it would be a waste of time to initiate this fight because of the make-up of the current Legislature is simply a way to avoid saying "I do not trust the people of New Jersey to carry defensive firearms". I don't think avoidance is the proper behavior for someone in a position as important as the Governor of the State of New Jersey.
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I work in the BX and I used to take my motorcycle sometimes to work but not anymore.you got these young punks that hang in the shadows and i just get this feeling that at a stop light I am going to be taken.
Decent people should not have to live like that. It is a very sad commentary.
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"DEATH DOESN’T SCARE ME - WHAT SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME IS HOW I HAVE TO LIVE!"
I recently watched a video on Media.Causes.com about our brave WWII veterans - http://media.causes....1060527?s=cause. I encourage you to check it out. It is well worth the 2-minute investment of your time. The thing that had the most impact on me personally was a statement made by one of the vets at the very beginning of the video - “Death doesn’t scare me, what scares the hell out of me is how I have to live”. It is evident from his tone EXACTLY what he meant. He and his contemporaries were not going to allow a demented dictator who knew nothing about the value of FREEDOM to dictate what their lives were going to be about. Those brave men and women put their very LIVES on the line to insure that not only the United States of America would remain free, but that the rest of the world would have a better chance of obtaining freedom than they would have had under Hitler, Mussolini or Hirohito.
They put their very LIVES on the line for freedom. If that doesn’t impress you, you should be ashamed of yourself. There is no other way to put it. This generation of American men and women must be revered as the heroes that they most definitely are. So, what does that mean to us today? Well for one thing, we have to ask ourselves what exactly was it that these men and women were fighting for? We can all easily answer that it was for the “American way of life”. But what does that really mean to you? Does it mean a way of life devoted to “social welfare” and “entitlement”, or were they fighting for the American dream that anyone willing to work hard enough could earn their rightful place in this country?
They didn’t believe that everyone was entitled to a piece of the pie. They believed that everyone was entitled to WORK towards achieving a piece of the pie. They were hard working union laborers, skilled artisans, high school students, artists, businessmen, celebrities, etc. They came from all walks of life and all socio-economic levels. The one thing they all had in common was a ferocious love of country and the resolute conviction that freedom is preferable to slavery.
Where is that fervor now? I watch as people sit idly by as one freedom after another is stripped away from them before their very eyes, and they do nothing. Consider the freedom to be able to afford to send your child to the school of your choice? You may say that people still have that freedom, but is that really true. When your property taxes have been hiked so high to pay for inefficiency, waste and outright fraud, do you still have enough left over to make the best choice? What about the freedom to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones; have you looked at the New Jersey Firearms Statutes lately? They are not designed to help you protect the lives of your loved ones; they are designed to deliberately disarm you. Why, because the governor of this state does not trust you to responsibly exercise your fundamental human and Constitutionally protected right to “…keep and bear arms”.
He may say that it is because the legislature would never pass less stringent firearms legislation, but is that really true. He has been MORE than willing to butt heads with the most powerful unions in the state of New Jersey, but when it comes down to fundamental human rights “…I am not going to bang my head against a brick wall”. Well, thank goodness that the brave men and women who served in WWII did not feel that way, or we might all be speaking German and Japanese instead of English.
This article is written in memory of my father Jack C. Fiamingo who came to this country from Italy in 1929. He was nine years old and devoted his entire life to being an AMERICAN with a capital *A*. He enlisted in the Navy during WWII and served honorably as a chief petty officer on a minesweeper in the United States Navy. He is the reason I sign my name as Frank JACK Fiamingo.-
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Very believable scenarios and unfortunate how the first turned out.If it was a level playing field at least he would have had a fighting chance. NJ carry laws are impossible
Unfortunately *TOO* believable. There were 236 confirmed carjackings in New Jersey in 2009 alone. Luckily, no murders were associated with those carjacking *THAT* year. I have not seen the statistics for 2010 yet, but with the downturn in the economy, I assume the number has increased. It is unlikely to drop anytime soon.
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Most of the anti gun people I know have that belief under a sincere concern for public safety. This is based on misunderstanding and lack of information. Remember, most people here in the northeast have zero experience with firearms and all they know comes from movies, video games and news reports. But since most are reasonable people at heart, there is opportunity to change their minds through facts, logical RESPECTFUL discussion and just plain setting a good example as a gun owner to replace the image they already have in their minds.
This is why I don't like the confrontational attitude from many in our community, calling anti's "sheeple," "fascists," or worse. If you're having a discussion with an "anti," it won't always go your way but please don't give up and let your frustration get the better of you.
Yes, there are people like the ones you describe, Lorenzo. In this particular case, he was not one of them. Before he got up from the table, he said "You people just want to have guns so that you can KILL people". To which I replied "How can you say that, you don't even know us". His response "I can say anything I want".
Of course, he is correct. He *CAN* say anything he wants, because in HIS world fantasy trumps reality. But as you correctly state, sometimes you just have to accept that the conversation won't always go the way you expect.
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You can't use logic and reason to argue someone out of a position that wasn't reached by logic and reason.
DAMN! Why does that have to make so much sense?
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One dark and spooky night, follow him until he stops at a light behind a beat-up old junker, then pull up very close behind him, open your door.... and scare the crap outta him.
Yeah - now that WOULD be funny!
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I have hd that some conversation many times and it never ceases to amaze me the people that fall into the ostrichs vs lemur mindsets. Ostrichs stick their heads in the sand as everyone knows, Lemurs watch everything, listen intently and adapt to any challenges or threats.
Hence the reason I have eaten Ostrich meat, but have never to my knowledge partaken of lemur. :-0
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Story #1:
A man is traveling through the city at night with his wife and teenage daughter on their way back from a visit with grandma and grandpa.He is an installer with the regional cable company, his wife works at a day care center and their daughter is a junior in high school.
They stop at a light behind an old beat-up Junker; the man doesn’t notice that the car behind him is just a little too close. Suddenly two young men approach his car with guns drawn. They force the man out of the car at gunpoint; shoot him in the head killing him instantly. Later that week, the bodies of his wife and daughter are discovered in the basement of an abandoned building*.
*Author’s note: I deliberately skipped over the really bad stuff here.
Story #2:
A man is traveling through the city at night with his wife and teenage daughter on their way back from a visit with grandma and grandpa. He is an off-duty police officer, his wife works at a day care center and their daughter is a junior in high school.
They stop at a light behind an old beat-up Junker; the man doesn’t notice that the car behind him is just a little too close. Suddenly two young men approach his car with guns drawn. He draws his off-duty sidearm from his holster and shoots one of the attackers in the head killing him instantly. He wounds the other attacker as he attempts to flee the scene. The man and his family are severely shaken by the experience. They return home and hold each other for a very long time.
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There is no doubt in my mind which story had the better outcome. Yet after describing these two scenarios to my anti-gun acquaintance, he remained steadfast in his statement that “Guns are bad; they are only for killing people”. He could not understand that in New Jersey the only difference between these two stories is that the cable installer is proactively disarmed by the State. “Guns are bad; they are only for killing people”. He was quite able to sit there and deny that self-defense and defense of your family is a legitimate purpose for carrying a firearm. “We need to help these people so that they do not have to resort to crime”. Once again, the victim becomes responsible for his own victimization. As I patiently tried to point out the difference between self-defense and random violence, my acquaintance stated that he did not have to listen to this “stuff”, and blustered off to find conversation more suited to his already preconceived ideas.
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Frank Jack Fiamingo is the co-founder and current President of the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, the most active independent 2A rights group in New Jersey - www.nj2as.com.
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Of course, just giving some info on how other state departments handle their business... god only knows what this little black book will reveal..
My guess is that unless the almighty is well versed in political doublespeak, she doesn't stand a chance. :-)
(I am married - I KNOW which side of the bread *MY* butter is on) - <snicker>
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I hear what you're saying Bob and I'm not suggesting we do nothing, but I'm a little too cynical to think that the crooks and anti-gunners in Trenton will simply think "Hey, yeah, we can save money by getting rid of the permit system." I believe that if anything, they would use those reasons to make it more difficult and costly for us.
Just my opinon. I don't have a whole lot of faith in anyone in Trenton to do what is right.
I think anyone who has been in New Jersey more than 30 seconds is entitled to be cynical. One of the reasons I keep asking for ideas, comments and suggestions is that there may be a better way for us to accomplish our mission that we might be missing. We can always change course if it makes sense, but before you can determine a true course you have to launch your craft and set sail. The NJ2AS is a fairly new grassroots organization and I am sure that we have a lot to learn, but we have been able to gather some decent momentum. We have a plan, but we are also learning as we go along. We will definitely need to make adjustments as we continue in this fight, and we will make them. For now, I hope everyone will agree that we are heading in the right direction. The more hands we get, the better we will do. So, for those who haven't already done so, please consider jumping on board. We can use your help.
For all of you who have been commenting, we are taking your comments in the positive spirit in which they were intended. I just want to assure everyone that our positive attitude is not due to looking through rose colored glasses. We just sincerely believe that we can make things better, and we will. ESPECIALLY with all the help we have been getting from you guys.
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Again..i am not saying we Dont Fight..what i'm saying is dont expect it to be "One" fight..it will be fight after fight. What's most furstrating is the newbies who coem in and tell those of us who have BEEN fighting this for decades how we dont know what we're doing.
Got ya! :-)
Yeah, we don't worry about that. We are realistic about what it is going to take. If we weren't when we started, we are now. :-)
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The whole who files the permit issue is null. Like said, there are plenty of officers at most if not all PD's who can take time out of there day to file them.. Hell, some of the worst towns have 3 OT officers managing a road detour due to construction. My town has 3 dedicated officers to the firearms unit, and my guess is they each handle a little here and a little there, and they get everything done on time in 30days. Like said this is just part of there job, they should be able to find time to do it, and its not like everyday they get people applying, or like its some huge task that takes hours to complete.
The state has purposely made the process more difficult then it should be. For instance like mentioned in another thread. The Dep. of Edu has an online system that allows you to archive your file for a BG Check, the state takes care of the leg work and sends out the approval letter to where ever you want it to go...they have codes for municipalities.. Your PD would have to do nothing on it's end in regards to BG checks but wait for the confirmation, and you can even check online when you get approved!!
Now of course they wont be able to BS you with that type of system.
The idea in a law suit like this is not to just complain about of F'ed the system is and force it to change... but rather have solutions to the problem that will benefit all. By cutting the work the PD's have to do will gain there interest, by implementing a electronic system that allows you to apply keeps **** organized and people pleased.. basically we need to cut out the middle man.
Understood, but keep in mind this lawsuit is NOT a complaint, it is a DEMAND for access to the Firearms Application Guide Book. It is just a first step toward getting the information we need to go after the worst offending towns. They are not going to change the system just because we ask them. Operation Establish Compliance is all about building a fund that puts some teeth behind our bite. The state knows that they could process these applications more cost effectively and more efficiently. They currently have no motivation to do so. After all, it is only taxpayer money that they are wasting, and it will only result in more guns in the hands of the people. They have no interest in promoting either outcome. We intend to provide them with the motivation in whatever ways we can.
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I agree completely. the problem is that too many of the state's politicians, Including the Governor, have tied themselves politically to Anti-gun stances. It's a lot like the Drug War.....after decades of saying No, No, Never, they'll look like fools if they say.."OK we were wrong we need to go in another direction". politicians would rather screw everyone over rather than look Stupid. I've been saying for years...and called a "Defeatinst' amongst other things for pointing this out. The ONLY WAY NJ is going to change its laws is if they are FORCED to do so through the Courts...Specifically the US Supreme Court..and even then, they will drag their feet, and kick and scream rather than do whats right. Look at both DC and Chicago...BOTH of them are playing word games with their laws just to protest being forced to do away with their bans. What REALLY needs to happen, is someone like Daley, or the mayor of DC to get arrested for Contempt..although i dont even know if there IS a mechanism for doing that on the SCOTUS level.
Well, I for one totally get your frustration. We may spin our wheels a bit, but I think we can make an impact. Back in the day, New Jersey was just as FREE as any other state with regard to gun ownership. It was a slow process getting to where we are now. It won't surprise me if it takes a while to get all our freedoms back, but the alternative is not to fight. That isn't much of an alternative. I know that right now we are no more bother than a bunch of pesky mosquitoes, but we are gaining in strength daily. If you have ever been bit by a hornet, you know how unpleasant that can be. We just need to keep on building our ability to deliver a consistent series of nasty stings. Eventually, they will get the point (pun intended).
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In most parts permits are an additional duty to someone who already has a full plate..especially in smaller departments. If you have only 2 or 3 detectives, with a full caseload, Gun permits are going to be a low priority for them, it ends up being an "Ill get to it when I get to it" Deal. Expect that to get worse now as well. PD's across the state are cutting back numbers. As layoffs and retirements attrit departments, you'll see more and more guys getting pulled out of Office jobs and back on the road..causing THEIR workload to fall on the shoulders of the guys left inside.
Even more reason to centralize and streamline the process. Now that there is NICS, there is no real need for all this nonsense. We will probably have to hold their feet to the fire before SOMEONE in the State finally accepts the fact that this is NOT the correct way to process these applications.
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Do PDs have a gun permit specific clerk?...as in that is all that that person does? If not, then they are paying that person to be there anyway...gun permits are just part of the job.
From what I can tell, it varies. Some PDs have a dedicated person. Often that person is only part time, or only handles permits on certain days. There is no consistency from town to town, which is PART of the problem. It might be better if it were simply centralized at the State level, they can do a NICS check, and you could simply go to the local PD to prove your identity and pick up your permit from whoever happens to be on duty. Why we have this arcane and convoluted procedure is anyone's guess.
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PM sent
Got it, thanks.
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I think we need to be careful. If such things were suggested, they very well may come back with, "you're right, it takes too much of our resources, therefore we will only handle firearm paperwork one day a month. You're right, we are losing money, therefore we will need to increase fees for our services."
You never know how they will go around your arguement.
Hmmmm... Good point. We should tread carefully.
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Frank, another thought for you.
Have you ever considered getting some dealers together to sue the state under the Interstate Commerce Clause? The point being that all this blatantly unnecessary bureaucracy (as well as OGAM) and the major delays it causes with people getting permits is severely interfering with an FFL's ability to conduct business selling a legal product. This would force the state to explain why this antiquated permit system is still necessary now that we have NICS and why it takes months in many towns to get permits. I think the state would have trouble making a rational argument to support our current system.
Actually, we have. I don't want to give away too much of the strategy at this point, only because we want to develop a focus that will accomplish this goal in the most efficient manner possible. As you might imagine, there are a number of possible ways to initiate this approach. Our legislative committee chair has come up with a unique idea that is likely to result in a great deal of cooperation from within the sector you refer to. At this point in time, our resources are completely focused on our current lawsuit against the NJ Division of State Police. This case should be decided relatively quickly. In the meantime, we are developing plans for the next strike. The approach you suggested is definitely being strongly considered.
If you are in a position to help us with any portion of this, please contact me directly in a PM here or at our forum on www.nj2as.com or email me at [email protected]. We can use all the help we can get. Your suggestion is excellent. We need people like you to both make suggestions, and help us to implement them. Anything you can do would be GREATLY appreciated. One of the things we desperately need is someone who is willing to act as a liaison with the retailers, and FFL's. We are preparing the message, but we are going to need a committee of people to deliver and promote it, and to coordinate the inevitable activities associated with directing it on an ongoing basis. It obviously takes some organizational ability and some leadership skills, but keep in mind, only a few short months ago, I was a retired Computer Consultant. Believe me, if I can do this, I am certain that many people can.
Please let me know if you are interested, and thank you for suggesting this.
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This argument (for getting rid of the permit system) really needs to be presented to the general public as a grossly wasteful, needless, redundant, antiquated system that is cost tax payers a small fortune. We need to express that this system is a waste of precious police resources in tough economic times. Your town is losing a lot of money processing these applications, the $18 goes to the NJSP, the town only gets the $2 per permit, which is not even close to cost. Once NICS went on line, this system became totally obsolete.
Most non gun owners aren't going to care about the hoops they make us jump though, but they will understand the waste involved when we explain that these backround checks are being done at least twice for each purchase.
I totally agree and we *DO* try to incorporate this argument when we speak to Legislators and non gun owners. Right now our number one responsibility is to increase the membership to the point that it becomes more and more difficult for people (especially Legislators) to ignore us. But frankly, it is up to ALL of us, not just the NJ2AS members to talk to our friends, family and neighbors about the issue. If they hear it enough times from enough people, perhaps they will get the point.
FBI DATA PROVES ANTI-GUNNERS WRONG ON CRIME, SAYS CCRKBA
in Firearm Hobby / Sport Discussion
Posted
You are welcome. Both the SAF and CCRKBA sites are an excellent way to keep up to date with current issues facing firearms owners throughout the country.