Genewarper111

I agree too. Where are these out-reach meetings? I'm in. G

well i STILL think we do ourelves actual harm by continuing to use the abbreviation "FID" it's a Firearms PURCHASER identification card and we should ue "FPID" . Always G

- not original - a repost - 1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns. 2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control. 3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics." 4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991. 5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid. 6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals. 7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you. 8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet. 9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125). 10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery. 11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise. 12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917. 13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia. 14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state. 15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution. 16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them. 17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons. 18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings. 19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity. 20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy. 21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20. 22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears." 23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed. 24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows. 25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves. 26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon." 27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted. 28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights. 29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands. 30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution. 31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit. 32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition. 33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too. 34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain. 35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection. 36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun. 37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not. 38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good. 39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon. 40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.

ok - by way of information, and disclaiming any and all association with the guy or his shop..... Sayerville Sportsman has twenty four (24), priced at $1549 best G

I was really intrigues by this rifle, but there's a HUGE 'but" - it seems to be VERY complicated to take down - there is a video on youtube showing a chap from the army and he has to work on it for over 5 mins to get the bolt out..... supposed to be a really cool rifle, but this video scared the heebe-jeebees out of me... G

Milltown here - welcome!

Phillipsburg pistol club is hosting a Utah CCW course next Sunday if anyone is interested. It's also a great little range. I recently joined and I like it. here is the club website: http://www.phillipsburgpistolclub.com/ The cost is $55 (or close to - sorry). The course begins at 10.30 and lasts "all day" I was told today. At the end I understand successful participants will be given a packet that will still need passport-style photos and fingerprints to be attached (at extra cost to oneself) to be added, along with the Utah fee of $65 (again, approximate). I know that some courses include photos and fingerprints. This isn't one of those - it still needs a couple of things done by the applicant and people should be aware of this. I'd suggest emailing or calling them to find out how many places are available. Hi everyone Phillipsburg Pistol Club Po Box 836 25 Howard St Phillipsburg NJ, 08865 908-454-1232 [email protected] (General Information) [email protected] (Training Officer) [email protected] (Membership) sorry the info is so incomplete. Happy Shooting G Edit/Delete Message

If anyone's interested, Phillipsburg pistol club is running a UTAH carry permit course next Sunday. You have to be a member I think, but it's a good little club - good outdoor and indoor ranges, Drop in and join! Happy shooting G

http://blog.nj.com/njv_publicblog/2009/ ... _make.html Actually this was completely by accident - I was trying to post a comment on another post http://blog.nj.com/njv_publicblog/2009/ ... nd_on.html who knows what happened....? There is another one worth reading: http://blog.nj.com/njv_publicblog/2009/ ... screw.html Anyway - read them and comment - lets get the debate to a wide audience Happy shooting G

I'd like to see a map of the vareious 'yes' and 'no' constituencies. I suspect that the 'yeses' will have come from the more built-up areas and the 'nos' from the more rural. If that's the case then such legislation will become easier to pass as townships expand and the population gains more and more people who have ccme from cities or from other countries where guns have been taken out of the culture many years ago. If you look at the open carry states and the easy CCW states it's the same thing - all the hardline states are essentially urban. I don't know what the answer to this is, other than for people to get their friends and casual shooting budies to sign up for their own FPIDs and PPs. THis is like any other right or skill - use it or lose it - this applies for individual people and for groups of people and for whole countries. Happy shooting (for now) G

Hello After reading a number of comments here and elsewhere, I came ot the conclusion that the current practice of gunstores recording the sale of handgun ammunition was not required by law, and I have written this in some of my posts. I have discovered tht this is wrong. Recording ammunition sales is required in law. My apologies to everyone I may have mislead by posting incorrect information. G N.J.A.C. 13:54-3.14 Permanent record of receipt and disposition of firearms and ammunition (b) Every retail dealer of ammunition shall maintain a permanent record of ammunition acquisition and disposition. The record of sale or disposition shall be maintained in a bound form and shall contain the date of the transaction, name of manufacturer, caliber or gauge, quantity of ammunition sold, name, address and date of birth of purchaser, and identification used to establish the identity of purchaser. The dealer shall confirm the age of the purchaser of rifle and shotgun ammunition to be at least 18, and handgun ammunition to be at least 21. No record need be maintained for the sale or disposition of shotgun or rifle ammunition. However, sales or other dispositions of ammunition intended for use in any other firearm and which may be interchangeable between rifles and handguns, as well as hollow-nosed or dum-dum ammunition, must be recorded. The records shall be maintained in chronological order by date of acquisition and disposition and shall be kept at the location the business is being conducted. © The firearms and ammunition acquisition and disposition record as prescribed under this section need not be required, provided the dealer maintains an updated Federal firearms and ammunition record on firearms or ammunition purchased or acquired and sold as prescribed in Title 26, Internal Revenue, Chapter 1 "Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition", and to the extent that the information required by this section is included on such records. If not included, then the Federal records are to be supplemented so as to include all information required by this section.

ok - so some things ought to be clear to everyone, imo First, we should never attack Mr Miller personally. No more "Cryin' Bryan". He lost his brother in the line of duty. Worse, tragically the late Agent Miller was not the intended target. Second, in many ways Mr Miller is (or ought to be) seen as being on the same side as legitimate gun owners - he is pro-safety, pro-responsibility... One important question is whether it was legal at the time to purchase the Mac10 used to kill the late Agent Miller - does anyone know? Also - we need to take note of the dedication with which Mr Miller and his colleagues have built their campaign and the time taken, because that is what we will need if we wish to reverse any of their successes. As said elsewhere in the forum, we need to build this in NJ - relying on the NRA will never do, if for no reason other than the image of Mr Heston clutching his Davy Crocket musket will brand the NRA forever as slightly nutty. Let's start thinking about fresh ways to build a movement for the acceptance of safe gun ownership and usage in NJ and seriously considering what would be acceptable to us - one handgun a month? 7-day cool-off? Mandatory training? Whatever.... As Mr Miller said - their successes came through advocacy and creating the problem in the minds of NJ voters. We need to do the same. Self-righteous protesting will get us nowhere. Happy Shooting G

I'm not sure this would be the most effective way of manipulating the process. Aside from anything it may well flag you as the type of person who is buying to sell. Instead, applying for one P-to-P per month might get the point across better. However, the very best strategy would be to get all of the people we routinely take as guests to our various ranges to apply for their OWN FPIDs and P-to-Ps. In this way we will both illustrate the true number of gun enthusiasts AND swell the number of people who are Interested Parties to current and forthcoming legislation. I'll be taking my two sons this week. Happy shooting G

..... slight aside..... what got Mr Miller started in Gun Control? Was there a key event? Can this and his response to it be used to discredit his arguments? (and for the record, I think we should target the arguments, not the man - unless we can prove beyond a doubt that he somehow profits from all this, we need to assume - believe even - that, like us, he believes that his viewpoint is correct). This is going to take time and VOTES. happy shooting G

. and one place we might start is here: http://www.nj.com/forums/statehouse/ there were NO posts here regarding the bill - it seems to be preoccupied with national issues. Let's introduce our ideas there and see what happens. As a strategy I think we should use only a small number of NRA-style arguments. Rather we should concentrate on using the facts - whatever we can muster AND document - about gun crime, use of legitimately purchased weapons in crimes, use of weapons from out of state in crime, crimes committed by legit weapon owners, police estimates of numbers of illegal weapons etc etc, and combine them with questions about restrictions on civil liberties, gentle reminders about nanny-statism, illustrations of false arguments presented in the Jun 26th debate and so on. We need to illustrate how the State (and other?) police forces apparently impose additional restrictions on FFL holders (the "Ammo Book Rule" for example - is this a law, or not? IF not, where does it come from? Who is driving and supporting it?) and use these as illustrations of what may be happening in other areas - to point out that individuals (some, not all) MAY be setting their own agendas in excess of the law in many fields - gun control being one. We need to work on this from several angles - simply going out and banging on about the 2nd A isn't going to get us anywhere and where we do present a 2nd A argument, it needs to be balanced and address the subtlties IN the argument (such as the distinction between "people" and "persons", for example). We need to refrain from playground name calling (eg "Korzine") and be prepared to give points as well as attempt to take them. Most of all, we need to be rational and steady and present ourselves as law-abiding people who are as interested in safety as the next person and this being the case - I think we should make our core argument that making it more difficult for law-abiding people to do things legally will not stop criminals from doing things illegally, and in the case of guns and handguns, the legislation is designed to control the fear of what might happen, rather than what actually does happen. The Governor recently signed an Executive Order that allows him to convene a panel to review all existing gun control legislation in NJ - one of its missions is to report on the effect of the recent bill on gun -related crime. THis report ought to be a major target of ours. Let's get to it. happy shooting G

OK - I CAN"T go, so if anyone has time, please post a review of the thing? best G

So - we all know that the requirement to sign when we buy ammo isn't a law that's on the books in NJ, but des anyone know about this? A friend has a permit for a pistol. He stopped in at a local gunshop on 31 and wanted to look at a pistol. He had his FPID, but the owner wouldn't let him touch the gun without his permit to purchase...????? Any ideas, anyone? Happy Shooting G

after a few months, the baby will hear everything - no earplugs for the kid and as it grows, the insulation gets less and less.... the lead is also a real issue - I often wonder whether we should get our lead levels checked as part of our annual physicals. Especially women of child=bearing age. Not trying to scare anyone, but just a thought happy shooting G

ShoreSHot and Fort Dix Dix is a great place. ShoreSHot is too- I'd recommend it to anyone Happy Shooting G

... pistols in individual locked cases, ammo in a range bag, all in the trunk (or 'boot', as we Brits say...) Happy shooting G

I was in there too - been in a couple of times recently, ogling a rifle. I am a little put off by the fact they are selling it for $350 over the MRSP. Other black rifles they had at MRSP (the sig 556 for $1850 and the M&P15 for $1800) - this one, 350 over. I know it's demand and supply, but, well, I think that's excessive. My usual guy can get me the same rifle for $1450, but quotes a 6 - 12 month wait. SO disappointed - it's out of my reach. Happy shooting G