PDM

Bingo. There are some absolutists who believe that no laws regarding guns are constitutional and that "laws don't stop criminals", which is inane. But I think many gun owners or perhaps most oppose any new gun laws because they know that the other side is not acting in good faith, so why agree to anything? We know that Feinstein, Bloomberg, Schumer, etc. are not "gun safety advocates" and do not just want "common sense" laws. They are opposed to civilian gun ownership and want to do everything in their power to undermine Second Amendment. If our overlords in NJ were genuinely interested in promoting public safety while also protecting people's rights they wouldn't be proposing any of these new laws. We'd know they were acting in good faith and I and I'll bet many people would be ok with required training, certainyl for obtaining a CCP. But that unfortunately isn't reality.

I don't know how to hunt, fish or farm. I have no plans to invest the time and energy to do so. In addition, living in this area, if things are so bad that we are reduced to an agrarian or hunter/gatherer lifestyle, I think the chances of making it to your cabin in Maine are virtually zero. Plus, just because you "own" it doesn't mean it will be unoccupied when you get there, in this type of scenario. If society breaks down to the point you are reduced to hunting to survive, a deed on a piece of land will mean squat and there will be many, many people also trying to escape to the woods including locals up in Maine. So, I don't bother preparing for the Mad Max scenario. IMHO you would be much better served owning a small house on a few acres in Sussex county or some other semi-rural area in NJ or PA within 60 miles that you go to frequently, where you know your neighbors and that you could get to easily and that will be easier to defend than a house in the burbs. I prepare for an intermediate scenario -- a multi week or multi month disruption in law and order on a local or regional level, where food and fuel is not readily available but where, eventually things will return to normal. For example, what if hurricane Sandy had been a Category 2 or 3 storm? We would have been without electricity and gas for weeks, perhaps months. There would have been short term food shortages. There almost certainly have been looting in many areas. But eventually order would be restored. I have enough food, guns, ammo and supplies to have a realistic chance of surviving intact in my home in such a scenario, at least by making myself a much harder target than my neighbors. That type of scenario is much more likely to occur than a national or global meltdown, which you probably won't be able to survive in any event.

I lived in Israel for a while. Israelis in general are much, much more tuned in to their surroundings and on the alert for terror. They always are in condition yellow. This is a natural result of living for 70 years surrounded by and living amongst people who want to wipe you out. A guy I knew accidentally left his clarinet on a bus. He realized it when he got home and immediately called the bus company and the police. The case with his clarinet had already been blown up by the bomb squad. Most Americans are sheep, oblivious and unwilling to recognize that life isn't always made to order. Despite the "say something if you see something" most people I know are in denial and unwilling to even entertain the possibility that life can sometimes be dangerous and unpleasant. It will be an uphill battle to prevent these kind of attacks.

One bright spot is that it appears, from listenting to the 3rd circuit arguments, the the 3rd circuit judges clearly think the 2A applies outside the home. They may not (probably won't IMHO) find that the NJ carry law fails intermediate scrutiny, but just having the 3rd circuit rule that the 2A applies outside the home could help.

Would be interesting to hear Gura's honest assessment of the S Ct taking one of the remaining cases. Can it really be that the justices make cert decisions based on current political issues. What if gun control is still being debated in congress when the NJ case comes up for appeal? I am afraid that the support just isn't there on the court. They heard two landmark 2A cases in the past 5 years after decades of silence on the issue. It is unequivocal that the 2A is a fundamental individual right and also fairly clear from the Heller and McDonald decisions that it should apply outside the home. Perhaps they feel that's enough. Four of the justices will clearly vote not to hear any new 2A case. Since cert requires 4 justices to vote in favor, if only two out of the five in the Heller/McDonald majority decide that they've done what they need to do and say what they needed to say on the 2A, we're done. I fear that they've had enough of this issue and will let the details work themselves out in the lower courts and through the political process.

Yeah, hard to see why they would take the NJ case or any of the other pending cases if they didn't take this one. Does anyone see it differently?

+100. Has anyone in this thread said that they like or agree with this report? I don't think so. The point is not that it is bad -- it is. The point is that it could very easily have been worse. We live in an anti-gun state, meaning that a majority of the population has a negative to very negative view of civilian gun ownership. Unless and until that changes a majority of our state politicians will reflect that anti-gun view. We will continue to be at risk of ever more draconian gun laws for the forseeable future. A governor like Christie, while far from perfect on the gun issue, is unfortunately the best we can realistically expect on gun issues. Right now our main hope lies with 1) the courts and 2) organizations like NJ2AS and people like GFH Anthony Colandro who are trying to spread the word and bring new gun owners into the fold.

Yeah, I know that. I meant to write "veto." I disagree with you. I think there is a greater than 50% chance that he will veto a new mag limit bill. I don't think Christie is "anti-gun." Cuomo, Bloomberg, Corzine, all "anti-gun." Christie = don't really care that much about gun issues, will do what is politically expedient within limits, certainly won't go out on a limb (which would be scary for a guy that big) to liberalize any gun law, but may fall back on common sense when a proposed gun bill is patently unfair and useless. My 2 cents.

Yes, exactly. Were you expecting a recommendation that the FID system be abolished, the NJ AWB repealed, and shall issue CCW implemented immediately? It sucks in this state, were you not aware of that? I was afraid that this report would make it suck a whole lot more, and it seems that it will suck only a little bit more. By some measures, that is "better".

Dudes, this is much better than it could have been. The absence of a mag limit recommendation and the recognition that A) NJ already prohibits "large capacity magazines" and B) reducing the current limit won't do squat in the absence of a federal limit is encouraging and gives me hope that the 10 round mag capacity bill will either stall in the Senate or not be signed by the governor. FID card renewals are coming. One thing that burns me is the discussion of mental illness, and the focus on how mentally ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence, etc., etc. I'm getting pretty sick of this PC crap. Newtown, Aurora, the Giffords Shooting, Virginia Tech -- all caused not by guns but rather by mentally ill people who never should have been walking the streets. We need a return to the old system where involuntary commitment of seriously mentally ill people was a viable option, although we obviously do need to make sure that our mental institutions are run intelligently and humanely with plenty of ovesight. Sorry, but there is a reason why mentally ill people are often shunned. In some cases -- for example the shooters in the tragedies I just mentioned -- mentally ill people are simply lacking empathy for others and missing some basic element of humanity and they need to be segregated from the general population, not left free to play thousands of hours of call of duty while compiling violent manifestos..

I normally go the range once a month, twice max and never was one to shoot more than 100 rounds total. I just don't see the benefit (or fun) of using hundreds of rounds blasting away at a paper target unless you are a competitive bullseye shooter and are training. So, with my supply, I should be good to go for at least a few years. The difference I've found is bringing others to the range. I used to think nothing of bringing an extra box of ammo for a newbie friend. Not any more. Second impact is training. I recently took the GFH Urban Carbine I class (fantastic class by the way) and went through roughly 300 rounds of 5.56. That's getting harder to do. Wonder how/if that is impacting GFH and other schools.

I don't love the look of the new Grand Cherokees. I know my list is somewhat odd -- car based crossovers, one a luxury brand, and a two true trucks (Explorer and 4runner). I'm leaning towards to 4Runner b/c it is a truck yet small enough in size to be manageable yet with decent enough ride and performance. Sort of old school in a good way. BMWs are nice but somehow don't reall speak to me.

Looking to buy a new AWD crossover or small truck. Considering the Ford Escape and Explorer, Audi Q5, Nissan Pathfinder and Toyota 4runner. Any experiences/views on any of these?

Interesting topic. In Judaism there is a prohibition of men wearing women's clothing and vice versa. The Talmud discusses a prohibition on women wearing weapons of war because those are considered men's attire, thus clearly implying that it was normal for Jews back in the Talmudic era (roughly 2000 years ago) to be armed. Chuckie Schumer, are you listening?

I've only had good experiences with them, both in terms of price and customer service. I don't think they are being unreasonable here.

"And we have to rid the debate of the misconceptions people have about what gun safety means." And what the f#$K does that mean?? What "misconceptions." What can "gun safety" possibly mean other than the knowledge of how to safely own, handle and use a gun? Can someone please just as Pelosi if she would support NRA Eddie Eagle Gun Safety classes being taught in every school, since she is so interested in gun safety?

I have one of those stack on gun cabinets (not a safe, more of a metal locker). It has a key, and I keep the key locked in one of those small key safes. None of the guns in the cabinet is loaded. That set up is sufficient for me with respect to securing the guns from my kids. I have a other guns hidden in various places in pad-locked plastic cases throughout the house and one small pistol safe in my bedroom. I've set things up this way under the theory that a burglar may find the cabinet or one of the guns but won't get them all, and they are all locked and secured from my kids (all of whom have been well educated to keep away from guns without adult supervision in any event). I like the idea of putting metal weights at the bottom of the gun cabinet and will try that.

Circuit courts of appeals decisions don't need to wait until the end of the session (I'm not sure there is a fixed session for the circuit court of appeals). A decision could come down any time.

I am thinking about looking for a second home in north-eastern PA, within 50 miles or so of the NJ border. I've heard some horror stories about the Poconos -- rising crime and less than desireables moving in from NYC. I'm slightly familiar with Wayne County -- the Hawley/Honesdale area -- but not enough to know where to start looking. Hoping to find something nice and upscale in a nice rural or semi-rural area, not necessarily lakefront or in a development, and not outrageously expensive. Does anyone have any knoweldge of Wayne County or other counties in eastern PA and specific areas that are nice and good candidates for a second home? Thanks.

I am fully prepared to apply and be denied if it is part of a larger campaign. I've already discussed the idea with a few gun owning friends in my town and they are behind the idea and would also apply. I think it will put additional pressure on the state if we get a large number of people to apply,although I am under no illusion it will make a difference without a favorable ruling in the courts. I am actually looking forward to the opportunity to have a discussion with the Chief of Police in my town on this issue. When he smirks and says "don't bother" I'll ask him why one of our town council members was granted a permit and tell him that I'm no longe willing to remain silent while my rights are infringed. If it's just me applying he wouldn't care less. If 10 or 20 other people start apply he'll have to take notice.

Haven't noticed more junk mail, but I just got a packet from the NRA asking me to extend my membership, even though I just renewed my membership a few months ago and sent them a donation. I'm going to call them and tell them to only send me 1 renewal reminder per year when my membership is due to expire and nothing else, otherwise I won't be renewing. I support them but I'm getting tired of the constant bombardment of crap mail from them. They must spend most of my membership dues on mailings trying to get me to donate more and renew,

What is the NJ qualification course like?

Well, considering that ADT refuses to offer any solution and insists that the time delay can't be changed, I assume another company might provide better service and at least work with me. I was just wondering what the smaller local alarm companies that many seem to recommend do with respect to monitoring.

So, back to one of my questions, what is a good alternative. Forget the quality of the system components. Are there smaller, local alarm companies that provide quality monitoring that actually makes it at least possible for police to respond in a timely manner? How do they do it without outsourcing to a larger outfit?

I'd apply if there it is done as part of a coordinated effort. Don't really see what there is to lose other than some aggravation. And when the Chief of Police laughs in my face, I'll politely ask him why one of our town council members was given a CCW (not a retired LEO or an armored car guard).