Spartiati

It's interesting. Excerpt from Burton vs Sill case: "The plaintiffs venture the prediction that, notwithstanding all of the foregoing, the Supreme Court will hereafter "extend the restrictions of the Second Amendment to all of the States" as it has done with some other amendments in the Bill of Rights. Enough has been said to differentiate the second amendment from those which protect individual rights and, as such, have been carried over into the fourteenth amendment. See Cushman, "Incorporation: Due Process and The Bill of Rights," 51 Cornell L.Q. 467 (1966) ; Henkin, "'Selective Incorporation' in the Fourteenth Amendment," 73 Yale L.J. 74 (1963). However, the matter need not be pursued, for as the decisions indicate, regulation (such as New Jersey's Gun Control Law) which does not impair the maintenance of the State's active, organized militia (see N.J.S. 2A:151-43, N.J.S.A.) is not at all in violation of either the terms or purposes of the second amendment or Art. 1, section 8, clauses 15 and 16. See United States v. Miller, supra, 307 U.S. 174, 59 S.Ct. 816, 83 L.Ed. 1206; Cases v. United States, supra, 131 F.2d 916; United States v. Tot, supra, 131 F.2d 261; cf. Presser v. Illinois, supra, 116 U.S. 252, 6 S.Ct. 580, 29 L.Ed. 615; Dunne v. People, 94 Ill. 120 (1879); City of Salina v. Blaksley, 72 Kan. 230, 83 P. 619, 3 L.R.A.,N.S., 168 (1905); Biffer v. City of Chicago, 278 Ill. 562, 116 N.E. 182 (1917)." The Plaintiffs were indeed correct, unfortunately it took 40 years for this to happen. I hope the Supreme Court ruling that the right to carry beyond ones home is protected by the 2A and that self-defense is an example of "justifiable need" doesn't take another 40 years.... Also: "The plaintiffs predict that New Jersey's Law will not achieve its purpose but are unwilling to await the actual results of its operation over a reasonable period of time. They suggest deficiencies in the Law but instead of gearing their attack towards elimination of the deficiencies and the strengthening of the Law, they apparently would scrap the entire regulatory program. They complain about administrative delays which may already have been eliminated and, in any event, may hereafter readily be dealt with administratively. And they express their resentment against the statutory requirements such as fingerprinting, though fingerprinting is now customary for identification purposes in noncriminal fields and does not carry any "odium of bygone days." 99 N.J.Super. at 461." Well, we now have 40 years of evidence that these gun control laws do nothing to inhibit criminals and have proved to be a tremendous burdon on law abiding citizens. More often than not law abiding citizens are made examples of for not understanding these laws and because prosecutors don't posess enough common sense to apply them. In addition, in some jurisdictions it can take up to a year to get an FID and permits. Is 40 years of nonsense enough for his honor? I think we've now given it enough time, it's time for a change similar to the rest of the country. New Jersey is no longer the trail blazer when it comes to gun laws, it is a dinosaur.

Ok, so appears they have dropped the SAF has no standing argument and wasted a bunch of electrons saying in 30 different ways that the entire case is gibberish because there is no case law that says the 2A extends beyond the home. So they picked up no ground in my view. How long now before it goes to a judge? Anyone know what the timeline looks like going forward?

Don't think it is any kind of a tactic, in fact think it was expected because of the extension asked for by the SAF on their response which effectively gave the AG 2 fewer days for her response to meet the 3/9 deadline. Think everyone is reading a little too much into this...

The problem here is partially OPEC, partially supply curtail due to frictions in the middle east and MOSTLTY SPECULATION. It is not the oil companys and lack of competitive forces driving prices up. OPEC has set supply comming out of the ground to set a floor of $70/barrel. Then you add in additinal supply cuts due to Libya and you get $85/barrel then you add speculation and you will get $100+/barrel. The real problem is speculation in the futures market which was virtually non existent 20 years ago. The market price for a barrel of oil is being driven up by traders who will never take delivery of one drop. It's just another speculative bubble. Supply and Demand is not even a factor, think about it...The amount of oil in the ground hasn't changed in the last three weeks nor has demand so why the price increase? Mostly speculation on the futures markets. Yes, there is fear of supply disruption in Libya and else where in the Arab world, but that doesn't expain going from $75 per barrel to over $100 in two weeks. As with all bubbles they are not sustainable over the long run and price will come crashing down but not until traders make a bunddle and we as consumers get hosed.

I agree, think there is always that risk, but I also feel it shouldn't preclude carrying for protection. Just need to think through these things fully prior to them happening. Cases like this are good scencarios to draw upon to have a mental framework of what steps to take should something like this happen. Every situation of course is unique but having some sort of frame work of what if's before hand can help prevent making a decision you regret later. Think a lot people arm themselves whithout doing this kind of mental analysis to prepare for situations like this.

All valid points and again I wasn't there so who knows. But I'd be willing to bet Ung is thinking, what if I just ran away or what if I just kept my mouth shut and ignored what those guys were saying. Maybe they would have just left me alone. Cases like this just make me think of ways to avoid the conflict all together. Based on what I read seems as though there may have been an opportunity to avoid this but it is not clear.

Agree not an easy decision and who knows what other options there were before this thing got out of hand. Though seems like maybe there was an opportunity not to take such a defensive stance and perhaps just defuse by moving on but who knows. Ive been in many altercations and most of the time there is a way out just by not fueling the situation and feeling like you need to stand your ground even though you are in the right.

Seems Ung was in the right letter of the law, as the jury also concluded. However considering what this will cost him not sure it was the wisest decision. Unfortunately the way the legal system works may have been better to have just taken an a** beating. I wasnt there but seems highly unlikely he would have died so in the end i feel probably wasnt worth shooting. Just like the saying goes just because you can doesnt mean you should.

I just never get tired of hearing Whitney sing it. One of the most outstanding renditions ever...Proof that when you have an incredible voice simple is best.

For those who do not speak Greek summary of the article: Basically two gunman took 1 minute and 23 seconds to rob the post office of 2000 euros in the center of Kalamata (town is located in the southern mainland of Greece). The video was shot from a cell phone by patrons in a cafeteria across the street who witnessed the robery. As the gunman drove away they fired shots into the air with their kalishnikof. Police later recovered the bike on a street named Crete...