snappy456

Permit in-hand! I had my hearing this morning in Gloucester County. I received an email a couple weeks ago from the judge’s secretary telling me to appear. There were about a hundred people there for the morning session. There is another in the afternoon. They called in groups, township by township… biggest groups first. Washington Twp was the biggest with 31 people. I’m from Woolwich Twp, and was the third group. The judge said he already reviewed the applications, background checks and qualifications so this would go pretty quickly. He also said that if anyone wanted to add an additional gun later, they should send an original qualification to his secretary and he will issue an amended court order. There is no need to come back. He called each person up individually, in no obvious order. He swore us in and asked three questions: Are you (name)? When you filled out the application, we’re you truthful? Have any of the answers changed since then? I answered yes, yes, no. He asked the prosecutor if there was any objection, to which she answered no every time. He then said he’s approving the application for the guns I qualified with. He read out the make, model, caliber and serial number of each. The secretary came over to get me to sign the permit, and took it back to make a copy. Then I sat back down to wait. After a bunch of people went, the judge took a break. The secretary called off names and handed out permits and the court orders limiting us to the listed guns. The permit has See Court Order marked. I was there 9-11:30. It was 98 days. I submitted my application 8/10. No references were ever contacted. Permit number is in the mid 300’s.

I’m scheduled for a hearing 11/17 in Gloucester. Submitted my application on 8/10 in Woolwich Twp. No references were contacted.

I handed in my application on August 10th in Woolwich, Gloucester County. I hadn’t been diligent about keeping track on whether my money order was cashed or not. When I decided to check my money order on September 28th, it was cashed. So this means it’s at the court, right? Any idea how long the process takes at that point for Gloucester County? They are doing mandatory hearings in Gloucester, so I’m thinking I may not get scheduled until November or December.

There is no definitive process. I was told by the Gloucester County clerk that all you need to do to amend a permit is to file a motion with the court. This can be done without a lawyer. They will schedule a hearing for you to talk to the judge. The downside is the hearing may be scheduled months in advance.

I would think that loading/unloading a firearm in a publicly visible area is probable cause for a search at minimum, not to mention could get you a nervous cop with a pistol aimed at you.

Rumor warning... I was talking to a retired police officer who is now working at a range in Gloucester county. He said Gloucester and Camden counties have begun collaborating on defining minimum standards for the qualification. He said there are some places running qualifications with as little as 20 rounds and without any distance shooting, and they want to stop that.

Ask your local police clerk. The NJSP directions state 2"x2" but the application says 1.5"x1.5". When I asked, she told me to get the standard 2" passport photos and they will cut them.

Nappen is paid by ANJRPC to answer questions of members. It says this in every newsletter edition. Anything more than questions is not included.

I emailed the Sheriff of Gloucester County regarding restrictions on which firearms you can carry. I mentioned that permits are being issued with restrictions based on qualified firearms. Here is his response: You are correct according to NJS 2C:58-4(a) "One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit." So until they change the law or amend it, this is the way it is. There was no direction given to any agency on how this was to take place. This leaves it up to agency discretion on what they will accept. Please refer to the following link https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/NJSP_WEBSITE_REVISION_FOR_PTC_v2.pdf Thank you Sheriff Jonathan M. Sammons Based on his response, it is up to the individual agency's discretion as to whether they will allow firearms that are not listed on the permit. This is wild.

Some people are getting permits that are marked No Restrictions AND have Qualified Firearms listed. This is confusing.

Yes. Your police department will need to give that to you. My township gave it to me before I submitted my other paperwork, and would not take the paperwork until the prints were done. Other townships want the paperwork first. Talk to your police clerk to find out how they want it.

Yes, it was Tracy. She was very nice, and helpful. I don't know why she said they're only doing them once per month if there are more than that this month. Good luck with the hearing! Please let us know what that entails.

I just talked to the court clerk in Gloucester county. She said they are doing hearings once per month for permits, and it's a lot of work on top of a busy schedule. They are very backed up. She said they are requiring Zoom hearings, and will contact applicants via email with info about your hearing. She said they are giving permits that are restricted to the specific guns you qualified with. If you want to add guns after you have the permit, you need to file a motion with the court (which you can do without a lawyer), and get scheduled for a new hearing. You don't need to go through the entire process again, but it will be time consuming.

Did they give any restrictions? Does it list the guns you qualified with?

What does that “amendment” process entail? Do you have to repeat the entire process, or just submit a new qual letter to the court with a nicely worded letter?

I'm expecting the NJ legislature to pass some type of law like NY, which makes most places prohibited. I think that' would be a bad move economically for a business not to explicitly allow guns. If even 5% of a business's customers decide not to patronize an unfriendly business, it will hurt them.

It was a mistake. I shouldn't have done that. I was getting some other papers notarized, and it was free, so I just added it to the pile.

I have her name, but my point was that she was joking. Aside from a dark sense of humor, she was very helpful. Another thing… I had my consent for mental health records search notarized, but she said it should be signed in front of her. She accepted it anyway. She also said she is a notary, and would have done all the notarizations for me if I needed. I wish she had put that in the info sheet she gave me initially.

I just submitted my application, and the police clerk told me that you can only carry the gun that you qualified with. She said that the physical permit will be redesigned at some point to show the specific guns you can carry. I've seen the NJSP memo posted here saying the permit covers all guns you own, and have read the law itself which says the same thing. I hope this gets worked out before my permit comes in.

I just submitted my application, and wanted to share some interesting news. I'm in Woolwich Township, Gloucester County. The police clerk was very helpful. She told me that she sends a packet of applications to the court once per week, but that the court is only having one hearing per month. Those hearings are already booked up though October. She estimates that I will be added to the November or December hearing. I asked, "isnt' there a timeframe?" She replied that there is one for the police, but not for the court. She said that the court clerk told her that people have been calling her and demanding a hearing within the timeframe, but that they are told there is none. Then she jokingly added that their application was probably moved to the bottom of the pile (not very funny).

I thought it would useful for some if I shared an accounting of the fees/costs necessary to apply. This is what I paid. $50 money order to Treasurer, State of New Jersey (USPS): $51.65 4 passport photos (CVS): $21.30 4 documents notorized, 3 applications and statement of firearm ownership (UPS Store): $40 Firearm qualification (Bob's Little Sport Shop, Glassboro): $107 Fingerprinting + out of state charge (Identogo): $96.45 Total: $316.40

Just wanted to share... I asked Woolwich PD if I should submit 1.5" photos like the app requests, or the normal 2" passport photos. The clerk responded, "get passport photos, they can cut them as needed."

So far, Woolwich has been good. The police clerk had an info sheet ready with directions and Identogo info on it. I'm waiting for the range to complete my qual paperwork, and then I'll submit. I'll post an update on how the submission process goes.

You're right, nothing will save you from a malicious prosecution if they want to make an example out of you. You will be arrested and prosecuted, but if the state police are giving specific direction that you can qualify with one gun then that is a legit defense. I've never seen the NJSP document, so I'm basing this on what several employees of Bob's told me. Regarding traffic and other routine stops, if it's routine then they don't have any probable cause to disarm you and check the serial numbers. That would require your consent, right?

I agree. As soon as lawyers are invovled, someone loses. Even if you meet every single requirement (defined or undefined), there's a good chance you will still be arrested, prosecuted and maybe even sued. NJ is not a gun friendly state just because we can get permits now.